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Hiemfire

Puzzled about the 2.0 Scurrg

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7 minutes ago, Vontoothskie said:

Right now turrets, astros, and bombs are all very weak, but as new upgrades are released those slots with become valuable.

2.0s sales strategy is to sell you future upgrades to make ships more viable, and itll happen because they want the money

Right now a Non-Havoc or Non-Ace Scurrg is hard to justify in a list over a kitted Y-Wing costing the same. If it had a reload other than damaging itself to recharge bomblet ( 10 point investment via Havoc+R2 or Gonk which requires 2 actions for the shield regen) that would be different. A gunner slot would also be nice, but then the Lok could run a (primary/turret) 4/3 dorsal red dice or a 4/4 ion red dice range 1 double tap with Veteran Turret Gunner, and it looks like FFG is trying to avoid that. Right now the Y-Wing and Aggressor with out talents can put out a 3/3 dorsal red dice or a 3/4 ion red dice range 1 double tap and aside from the VCX (which can do a blasted 5/3 dorsal red or a 5/4 dorsal ion range 1 double tap without talents) nothing else matches or exceeds that. Adding in trick shot and getting lined up right at range 1 (which is doable) ups each of those by 1/1. Turrets aren't ordinance so they get the additional range die.

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11 minutes ago, freakyg3 said:

that's nice

I might have to apologize after I look at it more

 

The second list (turret boats) looses 4 hp over Nym + 2 Lok but hit harder at range 3 and 2. At range 1 they can toss out 6 red dice on a single target (primary + VTG bonus attack) each a turn. Swapping Dorsal for Ion and the ship they're shooting at starts having to deal with a possible 4 damage + 3 ion a turn from each Y-Wing when in turret range as well.

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https://raithos.github.io/?f=Scum and Villainy&d=v4!s!144:-1,138,-1,69,71,103,149:-1:-1:U.114,U.1;146:138,20,71,69,-1,-1:-1:-1:;146:138,62,-1,69,-1,-1:-1:-1:&sn=Unnamed Squadron&obs=

Nym with two Loks. Cad lets the Lok take a red boost after dropping a bomb. Nym can spit out Protons and Seismics, shrugging of self-inflicted damage thanks to his ablative armor. Beckett ensures the board is shaped with obstacles where you want to engage, to maximize your Seismics. Cad lets the other Lok take a red boost after dropping one of four devices, giving you movement in the Device phase. 

Edited by PhantomFO

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17 minutes ago, PhantomFO said:

https://raithos.github.io/?f=Scum and Villainy&d=v4!s!144:-1,138,-1,69,71,103,149:-1:-1:U.114,U.1;146:138,20,71,69,-1,-1:-1:-1:;146:138,62,-1,69,-1,-1:-1:-1:&sn=Unnamed Squadron&obs=

Nym with two Loks. Cad lets the Lok take a red boost after dropping a bomb. Nym can spit out Protons and Seismics, shrugging of self-inflicted damage thanks to his ablative armor. Beckett ensures the board is shaped with obstacles where you want to engage, to maximize your Seismics. Cad lets the other Lok take a red boost after dropping one of four devices, giving you movement in the Device phase. 

https://raithos.github.io/?f=Scum and Villainy&d=v4!s!144:-1,138,-1,69,71,103,149:-1:-1:U.114,U.1;87:120,138,-1,88,5,69,-1,105:-1:-1:;113:-1,62,71,-1,165,107,156:-1:-1:&sn=Unnamed Squadron&obs=

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31 minutes ago, PhantomFO said:

https://raithos.github.io/?f=Scum and Villainy&d=v4!s!144:-1,138,-1,69,71,103,149:-1:-1:U.114,U.1;146:138,20,71,69,-1,-1:-1:-1:;146:138,62,-1,69,-1,-1:-1:-1:&sn=Unnamed Squadron&obs=

Nym with two Loks. Cad lets the Lok take a red boost after dropping a bomb. Nym can spit out Protons and Seismics, shrugging of self-inflicted damage thanks to his ablative armor. Beckett ensures the board is shaped with obstacles where you want to engage, to maximize your Seismics. Cad lets the other Lok take a red boost after dropping one of four devices, giving you movement in the Device phase. 

Nym isn't the issue, the replaceability of the chassis with out him, Sol, or the Havoc title is. IF the Scurrg gets reload other than damaging itself using Bomblets then that changes.

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14 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

Nym isn't the issue, the replaceability of the chassis with out him, Sol, or the Havoc title is. IF the Scurrg gets reload other than damaging itself using Bomblets then that changes.

The Scurrg is basically a midpoint between the HWK, Y-Wing and Kimogila. It's a medium based crewed ship with access to an Ion turret, a 3-die primary, and two bomb slots. Unlike the small ships, it takes more to ionize or tractor it, with two hard-to-block Tallon Roll options. Unlike the Kimo, it has a turret and crew slot.

But again, I'm not seeing how you could say it was neutered. It's almost the exact same ship that it was in 1.0, just without the ability to spam TLT. Even in 1.0, four TLT Y-Wings with Unhinged were going to be better than three TLT Loks. The only change is how the upgrades work, but that's true for every other ship in the game.

Reload may help, but I think the bigger issue is just that most crew options are either too expensive or too limited at the moment for what they do. If Perceptive Copilot was brought down to 6 or 7 points, a lot of ships would get a huge boost. Right now, you're paying more for a second Focus token than a Y-Wing pays for a second attack.

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32 minutes ago, PhantomFO said:

The Scurrg is basically a midpoint between the HWK, Y-Wing and Kimogila. It's a medium based crewed ship with access to an Ion turret, a 3-die primary, and two bomb slots. Unlike the small ships, it takes more to ionize or tractor it, with two hard-to-block Tallon Roll options. Unlike the Kimo, it has a turret and crew slot.

But again, I'm not seeing how you could say it was neutered. It's almost the exact same ship that it was in 1.0, just without the ability to spam TLT. Even in 1.0, four TLT Y-Wings with Unhinged were going to be better than three TLT Loks. The only change is how the upgrades work, but that's true for every other ship in the game.

Reload may help, but I think the bigger issue is just that most crew options are either too expensive or too limited at the moment for what they do. If Perceptive Copilot was brought down to 6 or 7 points, a lot of ships would get a huge boost. Right now, you're paying more for a second Focus token than a Y-Wing pays for a second attack.

The neutering centers mostly on how it fits when compared to other heavy bombers. Going based on chassis and not pilots: the K-Wing retained its ordnance and Slam to become what appears to be a very potent hit and run bomber, the Punisher got a much needed boost and has become a beast both with bombs and ordinance, and the Scurrg had the broken bull pulled from it along side the ordinance and some of its mobility (which is still decent, not K-Wing level but decent) yet got next to nothing back for the trade (Talon Rolls? Useful yah, close to compensating, not from what I can tell). Yah it has a turret still, and some likely feel the loss of the TLT (which I'm actually glad is gone), a 3 die front and 1 more HP than the other two. Yet it is missing some of what appears to be the keys to being a heavy bomber in X-wing with out a fairly heavy points investment in the crew, title and other upgrades. Reload and some way to either project or avoid/mitigate damage without a heavy points investment on top of the base cost of the chassis. Both of which the K-Wing and Punisher have available either baseline or dirt cheap. This isn't saying that Sol Sixxa and Nym are bad, far from it. Their pilot abilities each fill one of the missing gaps, damage avoidance (Nym) and projection (Sol Sixxa, she got a nice buff to her bomb placement). The Lok is left with an expensive, two device, fat HWK that can't really do much of anything well other than soak damage for a short bit or damage itself as it goes dropping bomblets.

Edited by Hiemfire

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2 hours ago, Hiemfire said:

The neutering centers mostly on how it fits when compared to other heavy bombers. Going based on chassis and not pilots: the K-Wing retained its ordnance and Slam to become what appears to be a very potent hit and run bomber, the Punisher got a much needed boost and has become a beast both with bombs and ordinance, and the Scurrg had the broken bull pulled from it along side the ordinance and some of its mobility (which is still decent, not K-Wing level but decent) yet got next to nothing back for the trade (Talon Rolls? Useful yah, close to compensating, not from what I can tell). Yah it has a turret still, and some likely feel the loss of the TLT (which I'm actually glad is gone), a 3 die front and 1 more HP than the other two. Yet it is missing some of what appears to be the keys to being a heavy bomber in X-wing with out a fairly heavy points investment in the crew, title and other upgrades. Reload and some way to either project or avoid/mitigate damage without a heavy points investment on top of the base cost of the chassis. Both of which the K-Wing and Punisher have available either baseline or dirt cheap. This isn't saying that Sol Sixxa and Nym are bad, far from it. Their pilot abilities each fill one of the missing gaps, damage avoidance (Nym) and projection (Sol Sixxa, she got a nice buff to her bomb placement). The Lok is left with an expensive, two device, fat HWK that can't really do much of anything well other than soak damage for a short bit or damage itself as it goes dropping bomblets.

I believe th real issue with the chassis stems from the upgrades it can take. There aren’t all that many outstanding crew (other than aforementioned regen and my man/droid 000) and in terms of turrets the two we have are quite whelming, not under or over, just whelming. Average.

its a platform that has nothing it really wants to take aside from bomblet. And I pretty much agree that it’s an ace-style ship as is. But I think the nerfing isn’t what holds it back as much as just a lack of options, though i wish it did have access to the gunner slot in some form, not that I want to face a line of double tap Skurrgs.

Due to this lack of decent upgrades, it suffers from similar issues to most rebel/scum support ships, with crew that support themselves only, hence lending to ace style play. At least, that’s how I see it, it’s an ace less so by choice than lack of options.

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1 minute ago, Rakaydos said:

A simple jousting list, with the ability to shut down Han/trickshot shenanigans:

Lok Revenant (46)
Seismic Charges (3)

Cartel Executioner (44)
Crack Shot (1)
R2 Astromech (6)

Cartel Executioner (44)
Crack Shot (1)
R2 Astromech (6)

Lok Revenant (46)
Seismic Charges (3)

Total: 200

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0

4 hp less, but wouldn't this work a little better or was the main focus 24 at range 3 instead of higher potential?

Crymorah Goon (32)
Dorsal Turret (4)
Veteran Turret Gunner (8)
R4 Astromech (2)
Seismic Charges (3)

Cartel Executioner (44)
Crack Shot (1)
R2 Astromech (6)

Cartel Executioner (44)
Crack Shot (1)
R2 Astromech (6)

Crymorah Goon (32)
Dorsal Turret (4)
Veteran Turret Gunner (8)
R4 Astromech (2)
Seismic Charges (3)

Total: 200

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0

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2 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

4 hp less, but wouldn't this work a little better or was the main focus 24 at range 3 instead of higher potential?

Crymorah Goon (32)
Dorsal Turret (4)
Veteran Turret Gunner (8)
R4 Astromech (2)
Seismic Charges (3)

Cartel Executioner (44)
Crack Shot (1)
R2 Astromech (6)

Cartel Executioner (44)
Crack Shot (1)
R2 Astromech (6)

Crymorah Goon (32)
Dorsal Turret (4)
Veteran Turret Gunner (8)
R4 Astromech (2)
Seismic Charges (3)

Total: 200

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0

It's a different playstyle- I would argue that 1 agility really wants to stay as far away as possible, though.

Your list needs to be in closer to do damage, and it cannot take the counterpunch quite as well.

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2 minutes ago, Quadjumper King said:

I believe th real issue with the chassis stems from the upgrades it can take. There aren’t all that many outstanding crew (other than aforementioned regen and my man/droid 000) and in terms of turrets the two we have are quite whelming, not under or over, just whelming. Average.

its a platform that has nothing it really wants to take aside from bomblet. And I pretty much agree that it’s an ace-style ship as is. But I think the nerfing isn’t what holds it back as much as just a lack of options, though i wish it did have access to the gunner slot in some form, not that I want to face a line of double tap Skurrgs.

Due to this lack of decent upgrades, it suffers from similar issues to most rebel/scum support ships, with crew that support themselves only, hence lending to ace style play. At least, that’s how I see it, it’s an ace less so by choice than lack of options.

Ya, putting a Gunner slot on the Scurrg looks a bit much and 0-0-0 is a sweet crewmember. More options would be nice though I still hold that reload could push the Lok to decent and build on what Nym and Sol can do without pushing to too potent.. 

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11 minutes ago, Rakaydos said:

It's a different playstyle- I would argue that 1 agility really wants to stay as far away as possible, though.

Your list needs to be in closer to do damage, and it cannot take the counterpunch quite as well.

So standing off was the point, you make a fair argument. So we have one role that seems to be possible that a Y-Wing has a hard time filing and the HWK really should avoid, fairly durable demolition. Combined they can remove a minimum of 4 obstacle fields depending on placement of both the fields in relation to each other and the charges to the fields. Makes me hope they don't bring Seismic Torps back.

Edited by Hiemfire

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Just now, Icelom said:

Also, the +2 hitpoints over the y-wing appear to be valueless as well for Hiemfire.

 

Not valueless, just questionable if they + the 1 additional red die are worth the 12-14 pts above a bare Y-Wing when you factor in the increase in size. The Tallon Rolls might fill the gap but I'm going to have to see how well they work table side with the Scurrg.

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Try flying them before you gripe. How many have you actually flown? I’m sure it will find a niche. If it doesn’t, guess what? It’ll get cheaper!

If you like it, make it work for you.

If you don’t, fly something else until it inevitably gets a buff.

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12 hours ago, PhantomFO said:

You said that the Skurgg chassis was "massively neutered" in 2.0. That's not the case, at all. It's barely been changed from the way it was used in 1.0. You can't run 4x Karthakk Pirates, but nobody did that anyway because four PS1 pilots was always bad.

Well, I guess you can field 4 Lok Revenants with hull upgrades. That's 11 hitpoints each, which is no small beer, and leaves space for the odd seismic charge as Dash/Falcon insurance. 

It is only 1 point more than a Gand Findsman and gets an extra hit point, but my concern is that if you want to field a squad of medium-weight fighters using primary weapons, it's hard to get past either the Cartel Executioner (4-per-squad, Dead To Rights, Elite Talent) or the Cartel Marauder (one of the few ships still available 5-per-squad).

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