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heychadwick

Number of ships in a list - what are you seeing?

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10 hours ago, heychadwick said:

I don't see how a 2 ship list can work against a decent sized list, but I guess I'll see it at some point.

So, technically this has the firepower of 3 highly modified ships 

And it also has persistent defensive modifiers that can hold it through concetrated fire

New Squadron

(92) Han Solo
(14) Bistan
(6) Millennium Falcon
(1) Trick Shot
(8) R2-D2
(5) Lando Calrissian
(4) Rigged Cargo Chute
(3) Hull Upgrade
Points 133

(38) Kyle Katarn
(10) Perceptive Copilot
(12) Moldy Crow
(3) Engine Upgrade
Points 63

Total points: 196

Just gimme like...a lotta months to wash the traumatic taste of 1st edition turret cancer from my mouth

 

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12 hours ago, heychadwick said:

I'll admit that my test base has been pretty small, but so far we are not seeing any successful lists under 4 ships.  What is everyone else experiencing?

So far it seems that expensive ships are way to easy to shoot down and don't get their points back.

I haven't seen a lot of Tie Formations,  but I know they will be popular.  I'm seeing not so many formations, which Aces can try to dodge the firing arcs.  I am seeing people flying smart most of the time.  

What are other people seeing? Same effect? More aces?  Big ships?

I've only played about 8 (2.0) games but so far most lists are 3 ship builds whether Scum (Boba/ or Han with 2 aces) or 3+ X-Wings) on the table then there has been a few 3-4 ship Imperial builds I've seen. The list I've run the last two times I've played is a 4 ship Imperial build (small sample size but 2-0 thus far). All the lists I've played against have had a force user/and an ace and they may be one in the same (Luke or Vader)

 

I'm 2-0 with: 

Darth Vader (Supernatural Reflexes, Cluster Missiles and FCS), Iden Versio, Howlrunner, Gideon Hask.  

I've so far used Darth Vader as the flanker to the Inferno Squadron while Howlrunner and Gideon Hask are up front in a triangle formation with Iden in the back. 

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Played about 30-35 games of 2.0 so far. 11-0 with F.C.M.  (Five.Cartel. Marauders.) They will certainly need to raise the cost by 1 point on the generic. 15-18 dice on average behind 30 health. Brutal efficiency. They beat a 6 TIE Iden/Howlferno swarm by turn 5. and skirt hunted the Jendon Bomber meta list that everyone will be sick of in 8 weeks. 

 

Also.... Two ship lists that aren't Vader and Reinforced RAC, two Defenders or Dash/X-Wing Luke fall down and go boom. Quadjumpers are underpriced. HWKs will define early Rebel lists. 4 Scum Falcons are way better than anyone expects and a well flown Boba can beat the init 6 Aces if he gets to endgame with at least half health. 

 

When it all shakes out though, it's entirely possible Vader plus two Phantoms will be the main thing. You've been warned. 

 

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I enjoy 3-ship lists. However, I've been told for 2.0: "if you are only flying 3 ships, make one of them an ace." I'm trying to see if I can make the middle initiative pilots work in a 3-ship list. Not gone well so far...

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18 hours ago, player3010587 said:

The cagier you are, the more you can squeeze out of lists with fewer ships that are nonetheless powerful. 

True, but I have also found it you are cagey with a bunch of generics you can beat a cagey elite list.  Bumping is the downfall of aces, and if you can do it early and at a good time, you can delete an ace in one round.

9 hours ago, Cgriffith said:

I've only played about 8 (2.0) games but so far most lists are 3 ship builds whether Scum (Boba/ or Han with 2 aces) or 3+ X-Wings) on the table then there has been a few 3-4 ship Imperial builds I've seen. 

This is what I have heard from some areas and made me want to start this thread.  I have a feeling people that aren't used to more ships might get trounced when they eventually face them.

8 hours ago, Cloaker said:

Played about 30-35 games of 2.0 so far. 11-0 with F.C.M.  (Five.Cartel. Marauders.) They will certainly need to raise the cost by 1 point on the generic. 15-18 dice on average behind 30 health. Brutal efficiency. 

I don't have 5 Kihraxes not enough dials, but my list is based off this.  I agree with you,  though.   The amount of red dice is blistering.  The dial on the Kihraxe is very nice.  It has the 1 hard turn and the 1 bank.  Very good at knife fighting.  Combined with Barrel Roll it can get to a lot of places.

I went with a TPV Tractor Beam Scyk for the Init 3.  That Tractor Beam makes people use their tokens to avoid the shots so far.  No one wants minus 1 green vs the rest of the shots.  I've also managed to TB a lot of people into obstacles. I think I've killed 2 Tie Fighters and an A-wing this way.  The dial on the Scyke is also good.  I have often kept firing TB at R1 for the 4 dice.  Can also barrel roll them away from a bump or into crosshairs of more allies.

The Gand Findsman is my last and I have enjoyed it.  It slow rolls and people often forget it can full stop.  Managed to catch Luke before he ran and regened his shields one game.  The Jam happens more than I would think and is great on aces.  It's not been stellar, but it's been good.  I did have Vader kill it once by doing 5 hull in one shot! (R1 and Direct Hit).

I do find the Kihraxes better than the X-wing due to cheaper and better dial.

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35 minutes ago, heychadwick said:

True, but I have also found it you are cagey with a bunch of generics you can beat a cagey elite list.  Bumping is the downfall of aces, and if you can do it early and at a good time, you can delete an ace in one round.

This is what I have heard from some areas and made me want to start this thread.  I have a feeling people that aren't used to more ships might get trounced when they eventually face them.

I don't have 5 Kihraxes not enough dials, but my list is based off this.  I agree with you,  though.   The amount of red dice is blistering.  The dial on the Kihraxe is very nice.  It has the 1 hard turn and the 1 bank.  Very good at knife fighting.  Combined with Barrel Roll it can get to a lot of places.

I went with a TPV Tractor Beam Scyk for the Init 3.  That Tractor Beam makes people use their tokens to avoid the shots so far.  No one wants minus 1 green vs the rest of the shots.  I've also managed to TB a lot of people into obstacles. I think I've killed 2 Tie Fighters and an A-wing this way.  The dial on the Scyke is also good.  I have often kept firing TB at R1 for the 4 dice.  Can also barrel roll them away from a bump or into crosshairs of more allies.

The Gand Findsman is my last and I have enjoyed it.  It slow rolls and people often forget it can full stop.  Managed to catch Luke before he ran and regened his shields one game.  The Jam happens more than I would think and is great on aces.  It's not been stellar, but it's been good.  I did have Vader kill it once by doing 5 hull in one shot! (R1 and Direct Hit).

I do find the Kihraxes better than the X-wing due to cheaper and better dial.

I have only 3 dials (getting more off ebay this week) but have been proxying firespray dials for the other two. They're pretty much close. Which also tells you how good the Firespray is now. Pilots aside, I think it it the best medium or large ship dial in the 2.0. Pilots considered, I'd out Boba alongside Rebel Lando or Dash in top 3. Plus, he's cheaper.... 

 

For the FCMs, The barrel roll and 1 turn is all the difference. I start with 3 in front, two offset in back, work the edge of the board opposite side if not jousting to set up. Barrel roll the interiors to single file, the turn all in on some poor sucker foolish enough to come in. It's become almost auto win. I'm playing other lists just so I don't feel easy mode. 

Edited by Cloaker

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Most squads I've built so far are 3-ship ones. But I love playing 4 ships so I will work on those soon enough. The only real 2.0 game I've played was with the following:

- Luke Skywalker (Heightened Perception, R2 Astromech)
- Rogue Squadron Escort (Predator, Fire-Control System, R4 Astromech)
- Blade Squadron Veteran (Predator, Advanced Sensors, Heavy Laser Cannon)
199 points

Lots of fun and solid.

 

Edited by admat

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38 minutes ago, Cloaker said:

For the FCMs, The barrel roll and 1 turn is all the difference. I start with 3 in front, two offset in back, work the edge of the board opposite side if not jousting to set up. Barrel roll the interiors to single file, the turn all in on some poor sucker foolish enough to come in. It's become almost auto win. I'm playing other lists just so I don't feel easy mode. 

Yeah, fewer games in, but I agree.  I had A-wings try to bait me and then flank in the middle, but I was able to just turn in on him and let loose.  How awesome my list is got me thinking about other people.  I keep reading about 3 ship lists and shake my head.

I found the Talon Roll is also good on the Kihraxe.  It let's you flip around and get in good positions.  Better than a K-turn at times when you go first.

Its after the initial pass that the Findsman is a great blocker.  People forget it can stop and there gets to be few places a ship can go.  The main fighters can turn in or around while the Findsman blocks to create a short range kill box.

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5 hours ago, heychadwick said:

Yeah, fewer games in, but I agree.  I had A-wings try to bait me and then flank in the middle, but I was able to just turn in on him and let loose.  How awesome my list is got me thinking about other people.  I keep reading about 3 ship lists and shake my head.

I found the Talon Roll is also good on the Kihraxe.  It let's you flip around and get in good positions.  Better than a K-turn at times when you go first.

Its after the initial pass that the Findsman is a great blocker.  People forget it can stop and there gets to be few places a ship can go.  The main fighters can turn in or around while the Findsman blocks to create a short range kill box.

4 gand findsmen are going to be better than FCM against multiple ace lists long term methinks. Load them up with rigged cargo chutes and hull upgrade. That's 40 HP,12 red dice and a litany of denial action/maneuver options to make aces weep. 

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16 hours ago, Cloaker said:

4 gand findsmen are going to be better than FCM against multiple ace lists long term methinks. Load them up with rigged cargo chutes and hull upgrade. That's 40 HP,12 red dice and a litany of denial action/maneuver options to make aces weep. 

I don't know about that.  I feel like you are looking at it on paper and not on the table.  Sure, a lot of hull and dropping obstacles, but aces will flank these guys pretty easy and avoid arcs.

The dial is part of what makes the Kihraxes great.  They can one hard turn, Talon Roll, K-turn, and Barrel Roll.  What makes them so dangerous is their maneuverability, firepower, and numbers.  If someone can cause a bump, someone else has to be there to take advantage of it with shots.

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Just as a point of interest, perhaps we should use a base ratio metric where large ships count for four small bases and so forth as a means of measuring a health to base real estate ratio. That way we can see about how much the average base holds in terms of individual hit point and then get a better idea of what sort of damage a list should be able to do in order to be viable.

though with the medium base, different archetypes and the fact that large ships don’t fly like a four base formation it may not be super legitimate as a form of measurement.

it just seems that ship count almost always requires a sort of asterisk due to the fact that 5 barrage bombers are very different in terms of five ships to say five Quadjumpers or A-Wings. Or the fact that 2 ship imperial aces are substantially different in hit points and manouverability to a fat turret and a closing escort ship.

It’s probably not worth much but there’s my hat in the ring, just a suggestion to see if we can formulate the most useful metric possible for 2.0

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2 hours ago, heychadwick said:

I don't know about that.  I feel like you are looking at it on paper and not on the table.  Sure, a lot of hull and dropping obstacles, but aces will flank these guys pretty easy and avoid arcs.

The dial is part of what makes the Kihraxes great.  They can one hard turn, Talon Roll, K-turn, and Barrel Roll.  What makes them so dangerous is their maneuverability, firepower, and numbers.  If someone can cause a bump, someone else has to be there to take advantage of it with shots.

Will run a few games and report findings. But I'll admit I'm liking the G1-A far more than I thought I would and have won the 3 games I used it in. It came down to the all bases half point rule. Takes 5 to half it, which didn't happen, and the difference in each win was half pointing enemy aces. But the list also had Boba and company ?

 

Edited by Cloaker

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2 hours ago, Cloaker said:

Will run a few games and report findings. But I'll admit I'm liking the G1-A far more than I thought I would and have won the 3 games I used it in. It came down to the all bases half point rule. Takes 5 to half it, which didn't happen, and the difference in each win was half pointing enemy aces. But the list also had Boba and company ?

 

Nice!  Was that the one Misthunter with the Kihraxes and Scyk? If so, I told you it was fun.  :)

yeah, I enjoyed the Misthunter more than I thought I would.  It even has a Kturn.

Edited by heychadwick

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16 minutes ago, heychadwick said:

Nice!  Was that the one Misthunter with the Kihraxes and Scyk? If so, I told you it was fun.  :)

Jam Steal Kill

Boba Fett (80)
Lone Wolf (4)
0-0-0 (3)
Marauder (3)
Han Solo (Scum) (4)

4-LOM (49)
Trick Shot (1)
Mist Hunter (2)

Palob Godalhi (38)
Trick Shot (1)
Moldy Crow (12)

Total: 197

 

The Han 000 option was a nice way of getting by without Perceptive CP. Harassed my opponent with the other two and Boba cleaned up easily. 

 

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