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Biophysical

Active pursuit of the Bullseye?

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2.0 has been with a lot of people in some form or another for a while now.  One of the new things is the Bullseye arc  (unless you were a big Kimo fan).  

My experience so far has been that abilities that use Bullseye have been useful in different ways in a few different situations.

1.)  Soontir Fel.  He gets double repositioning to get the Bullseye, and a token if he manages it.  He gets Bullseye the easiest and gets a lot out of it.  You really want to pursue the Bullseye with him.

2.)  Range 1 Bullseye, intentional of incidental.  If you have a Bullseye ability, you maybe aim for it at R1 more than other ranges.  Probably principally with ships that can link a roll or boost into Focus, though. 

3.)  Range 2-3 Bullseye, incidental.  In this situation, I've been pretty content to just let it happen if it happens, but don't aim for it.  It seems too difficult at initial impressions to be worth chasing. 

 

I keep thinking that maybe there's something that can be done to aim for the 2-3 range Bullseye band, though, and I wanted to see if anyone had ideas or experience in techniques that would help maximize a range 2-3 bullseye. 

The idea that seems best so far is careful blocking. If you know where you'll go, and you think you know the opponent's move, you could theoretically use blocking to nudge them a bit into the Bullseye.  This would be easier with a large base blocker or multiple smaller blockers.  There's also the beneficial side effect of denying an action in the process.

Another possibility would be to try an offset deployment angle to try and ensure your ship is never liked up square on the target ship.  This increases the Bullseye target size just a bit, and has other advantages in addition.  

Has anyone else tried or thought of anything?  It seems like there's a lot to be gained by more regularly activating your Bullseye arc.  

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My main thought on this is still that fighting against more than 2 small ships or any big/medium base the "incidental" bullseye happens very frequently at most any range. 

Its not just big bases that get bullseyed with relative ease. Gonna mock up a couple vassal screenshots with an actual response if I can. 

Lets say your starting here. Soontir hasnt revealed his dial yet, both the Ties and Redline already have.

6Z1zVCs.png

There might be something to thinking of "parallel" things in terms of range bands. 

ZmGtkD6.png

A hard 3 turn barrel roll puts the stuff at Range 2 "near" bullseye as its about 1 ship base between soontir and the front row. 3 Hard Turn Roll works but wrong target. 

6N8PVH9.png

2 Bank Boost means a barrel roll still only gets the front row since Iden/Howl are a close to 1.5 ship bases away. Close but doesnt catch Howl though!

1tX7fwV.png

Now the 3 Bank Boost, sets up bullseye on the front row. Roll is 1 ship base away hits the back line. 

WiGSIUy.png

Of course in all these scenarios the Tie Swarm could have just went straight at Soontir. So not "realistic". 

But I do think there is something to explore thinking in terms of where you expect things to be at certain range bands especially for ships that have to rely on that first move more and cant double re-position. 

At minimum it could help in deciding boost/roll actions. Sometimes hard to eyeball Range bands but thats a skill to. 

I.E. if its R3 forward R2 Left that kinda thing. Wonder if there is a way to break it down like that.

Probably 100% unnecessary since like I said it kinda just happens, you dont really have "full knowledge of the board state" like this just an educated guess at where they will be but still interesting topic. 

5lVrSQX.png

Screenshot above shows what im getting at with stuff thats to your left or right. If you have a sense of that then there specific moves that get you there and migh save actions for non-reposition stuff or make it simpler for ships that cant do ridicuous soontir things to set it up.

Edited by Boom Owl

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15 minutes ago, TasteTheRainbow said:

The effectiveness of bullseye mechanics will vary in direct proportion to the proportion of large ships in the meta. 

This is definitely the case, but even then, I think there's probably some way that the odds can be enhanced.

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I’ve found that Advanced Sensors B-Wings get a lot of mileage out of HLC with their focus-roll. Only works well against lower I or non-repostioning ships, but a fair number of those exist. Additionally, at I4 with a bid, Braylen or Keyan can dodge 70% of ships and pin them with HLC while the rest of your list hunts the aces. It’s worked well for me anyway.

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30 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

My main thought on this is still that fighting against more than 2 small ships or any big/medium base the "incidental" bullseye happens very frequently at most any range. 

Its not just big bases that get bullseyed with relative ease. Gonna mock up a couple vassal screenshots with an actual response if I can. 

Lets say your starting here. Soontir hasnt revealed his dial yet, both the Ties and Redline already have.

6Z1zVCs.png

There might be something to thinking of "parallel" things in terms of range bands. 

ZmGtkD6.png

A hard 3 turn barrel roll puts the stuff at Range 2 "near" bullseye as its about 1 ship base between soontir and the front row. 2 Hard Roll works but wrong target. 

6N8PVH9.png

2 Bank Boost means a barrel roll still only gets the front row since Iden/Howl are a close to 1.5 ship bases away. Close though!

1tX7fwV.png

Now the 3 Bank Boost, sets up bullseye on the front row. Roll is 1 ship base away hits the back line. 

WiGSIUy.png

Of course in all these scenarios the Tie Swarm could have just went straight at Soontir. So not "realistic". 

But I do think there is something to explore thinking in terms of where you expect things to be at certain range bands especially for ships that have to rely on that first move more and cant double re-position. 

At minimum it could help in deciding boost/roll actions. Sometimes hard to eyeball Range bands but thats a skill to. 

I.E. if its R3 forward R2 Left that kinda thing. Wonder if there is a way to break it down like that.

Probably 100% unnecessary since like I said it kinda just happens, you dont really have "full knowledge of the board state" like this just an educated guess at where they will be but still interesting topic. 

5lVrSQX.png

 

 

 

Soontir is really a special case, though.  He's so my better at Bullseye than anyone else.  

Let's say you're a regular predator or HLC carrier.  Do you expect bullseye only in early turns when there are lots of ships in formation, or is it reasonable to aim the Bullseye and a block at the same point on the board in an attempt to double whammy someone?

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11 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

Soontir is really a special case, though.  He's so my better at Bullseye than anyone else.  

Let's say you're a regular predator or HLC carrier.  Do you expect bullseye only in early turns when there are lots of ships in formation, or is it reasonable to aim the Bullseye and a block at the same point on the board in an attempt to double whammy someone?

I used a swarm as an example but even 2-3 ships out of formation or a single ship are ending up in that bullseye arc regularly. 

Soontir just the example here, if you cant double repo it puts more pressure on that initial move being the right speed so all you have to do is boost or roll. 

Where the bullseye arcs are on the board for specific moves and repositions would be worthwhile to map out for specific ships. Thats what I was trying to get at. 

This picture specifically. Maybe there to many options for laying this out to be worth the effort...

A part of me wants to make a Vassal Map of all the final positions an X-Wing (ignoring linked actions) can land and where all the bullseyes end up pointing. 

5lVrSQX.png

And yea once your in the mess its an entirely different ball game where all the bumps start to make a big difference for repeat shots. 

Edited by Boom Owl

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5 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

I used a swarm as an example but even 2-3 ships out of formation or a single ship are ending up in that bullseye arc regularly. 

Soontir just the example here, if you cant double repo it puts more pressure on that initial move being the right speed so all you have to do is boost or roll. 

Where the bullseye arcs are on the board for specific moves and repositions would be worthwhile to map out for specific ships. Thats what I was trying to get at.

 

This kind of puts the Bullseye more as an opening turn kind of tool for most ships, right?  Start with the ships that are lined up, but stick on the damaged ships on subsequent turns?

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4 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

This kind of puts the Bullseye more as an opening turn kind of tool for most ships, right?  Start with the ships that are lined up, but stick on the damaged ships on subsequent turns?

That feels like it could be a trap and might be "dont chase bullseyes for the sake of bullseyes" territory. 

Splitting fire early scares me more than ever but maybe it shouldnt with small base half pts being a factor now. 

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4 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

That feels like it could be a trap and might be "dont chase bullseyes for the sake of bullseyes" territory. 

Splitting fire early scares me more than ever but maybe it shouldnt with small base half pts being a factor now. 

To clarify, I'm thinking of one ship with bullseye in a squad.  On the opening, you see where it lines up and take that shot (and everyone else follows up on the same target).  Subsequent turns, then you make sure you have that ship dead before you try and take another Bulleye shot, though. 

Or maybe you can use a Bullseye more proactively.  If you know a general area, like a good approach position in the rocks, you drop the Bullseye so it's covering tja t position.  

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6 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

Wedge. Without any boosts or repositions. I dont know if this provides any hints at anything but it does at least look cool.

wWIr9Wr.png

It definitely says that if you're trying to actively bullseye something with this ship, you want to be banking in on the target, as you have the most possible positions your Bullseye might be.

Edited by Biophysical

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7 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

It definitely says that if you're trying to actively bullseye something, you want to be banking in on the target, as you have the most possible positions your Bullseye might be.

Or if you think your opponent will end up at Range 1 left or right of your initial starting position's 360 Range Bubble then a 3 talon should line it up inside R1-3 for a shot. 

Same for a hard turn. If you think they end up Range 1 ahead of your initial starting position a hard 2 or 3 turn should get you in the ballpark. 

Edited by Boom Owl

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So, I see a lot of statements about how a swarm or large ship are easier to tag with the bullseye.

One other thing to consider is that when running a swarm, if you have a bullseye arc ability on all of your ships, it's much more likely to land on something than nothing. 7 Black Squad Aces with Predator or Crack Shot or 6 Cartel Spacers with HLC should be able to land at least 1 of their bullseye's constantly, and getting 2 or 3 pretty consistently.

In this case, the entire squad moves together at the priority target. If it can't avoid the swarm completely it's likely in at least one bullseye or is in disadvantaged position otherwise.

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They're not a very good ship build, but I have noticed that Predator Talas land a lot of long-range bullseyes by virtue of there being enough of them that your opponent stops thinking about it, and/or can't dodge them all. So it's only incidental in my experience, but you can build a squad that maximizes how often the incidents happen. I would guess Kimos have a similar effect. As cheap ships that don't need to joust in a giant range 1 block and thus can set up a bullseye net of sorts. 

Soontir seems to be the exception to the rule, rather than an exemplar of a bullseye-based playstyle. I've been finding it rather easy to line up bullseyes on things with him. It probably helps that he's the only ship in the game with i6 double reposition. I would assume Vader bullseyes wouldn't be that difficult either, he just doesn't have a lot of things that need it anyway. I guess Prockets? 

Edited by Kieransi

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15 minutes ago, Kieransi said:

They're not a very good ship build, but I have noticed that Predator Talas land a lot of long-range bullseyes by virtue of there being enough of them that your opponent stops thinking about it, and/or can't dodge them all. So it's only incidental in my experience, but you can build a squad that maximizes how often the incidents happen. I would guess Kimos have a similar effect. As cheap ships that don't need to joust in a giant range 1 block and thus can set up a bullseye net of sorts. 

Soontir seems to be the exception to the rule, rather than an exemplar of a bullseye-based playstyle. I've been finding it rather easy to line up bullseyes on things with him. It probably helps that he's the only ship in the game with i6 double reposition. I would assume Vader bullseyes wouldn't be that difficult either, he just doesn't have a lot of things that need it anyway. I guess Prockets? 

Two Words: Marksmanship Procket Maarek. 

Also regarding soontir being able to bullseye stuff without using the double reposition means extra tokens or an open dial. Its important i think to situationally play Soontir like he has no reposition options or just one unless your fully going to be out of arc bullseyeing things. Better you get at it the more you can keep his dial open even while out of arc and can take an evade action + bullseye focus if you get stuck in a ships arc.

Edited by Boom Owl

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I plan to try some angles inbetween 45 (like 22-23) to see if that gives me a bullseye advantage in some form.   In the end it covers the same area, but I'm hoping avoids approaches that end up straight on that make it the toughest to zero that bullseye.  It also hopefully means that most of the time my ships are approaching enemy ships with more of their base exposed as a larger target for the bullseye.

Edited by AlexW

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The ability of a player to put the bullseye on target will increase the value of the low cost EPTs (crack - early game value / predator - general value / marksmanship - late game value).   Otherwise, the most vialble low cost EPT is trick shot, since it is always "on" at all ranges, and it does not require the bullseye.

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6 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

Trick Shot also has the advantage of not being primary restricted which makes it probably ideal for missile/torp carriers.

Its part of why Lone Wolf and Juke can be so nice. One thing hasnt been discussed much is Ion. In 1.0 there were a couple janky scum ion builds with kimogilias that were sneaky effective. I wonder if that kinda thing could be less of a meme now. Tractor to i guess.

Edited by Boom Owl

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13 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

Its part of why Lone Wolf and Juke can be so nice. One thing hasnt been discussed much is Ion. In 1.0 there were a couple janky scum ion builds with kimogilias that were sneaky effective. I wonder if that kinda thing could be less of a meme now. Tractor to i guess.

So Out Maneuver or fearless on Fenn?

https://raithos.github.io/?f=Scum and Villainy&d=v4!s!129:120,135,98,4,-1,-1:-1:-1:;97:126,-1:-1:-1:;112:119,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1,156:-1:-1:&sn=Unnamed Squadron&obs=

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13 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

Its part of why Lone Wolf and Juke can be so nice. One thing hasnt been discussed much is Ion. In 1.0 there were a couple janky scum ion builds with kimogilias that were sneaky effective. I wonder if that kinda thing could be less of a meme now. Tractor to i guess.

Ion is pretty meh, in my opinion, based on very limited experience.  I do think if you can put it on 2-dice ships, though (Scyks, Gunboats if you get better results than me) it starts looking pretty good.

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