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Tie Fighter Pilot

My dad destroyed me with Norra in a y wing

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We got to play a game of 2.0 earlier this week. I had Vader and 5 ties against the 3 y wings he likes to fly. I thought I would just get in close and fire away. I thought wrong. I made some mistakes and I paid for it.

Dad was worried about losing his beloved TLTs but still got his double shots on two of his ships and could deal more damage. Add in Norra's pilot ability (While you defend, if there is an enemy ship at range 0-1, add 1 evade result to your dice results.) and some hot rolls on his side and he is no longer worried.

We love this game!

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38 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

What was the build? Turret + vet gunner?

I really like Norra's ability but I always have trouble trying to get the Y's front arc to matter without torps. I guess vet gunner could really help there 

Torps with reload are amazing, but double-tap is equally so. These things really do have a lot of damage output and can tank like a boss.

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13 minutes ago, ClassicalMoser said:

Torps with reload are amazing, but double-tap is equally so.

Technically, with Han Gunner you can do both.

4 dice ion cannon opening volley at I7, then 5 dice Adv Torpedo double tap. And you don't even have to take a weapons disabled token to do it! Corran Horn who?

I, for one, welcome our new 70 point Y-Wing Norra meta. 

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1 hour ago, ficklegreendice said:

Red reload really isn't good

Stress and weapons disabled is horribly limiting and only really usable if you've broken far away from engagement

 

Vet gunner seems far more feasible

When someone arc dodges out of both players arc and you get to reload. Seems powerful to me. 

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16 minutes ago, ozmodon said:

When someone arc dodges out of both players arc and you get to reload. Seems powerful to me. 

Still stresses, which heavily impacts your ability to capitalize on the following turn

Far more situational in practice than in theory. Can't really afford to waste time red reloading when you should be hounding the enemy

Gunboat being the one big exception, followed by the punisher with it's white reload + boost & linked lock to get back in the fight 

Edited by ficklegreendice

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36 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

Still stresses, which heavily impacts your ability to capitalize on the following turn

Far more situational in practice than in theory. Can't really afford to waste time red reloading when you should be hounding the enemy

Gunboat being the one big exception, followed by the punisher with it's white reload + boost & linked lock to get back in the fight 

While I think you're generally right, you could slap an R4 Astro on there to have more choices the following round.  Not sure if that's better than R3 for the double lock, but it's an option.

Edited by imrandy85

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3 hours ago, ficklegreendice said:

What was the build? Turret + vet gunner?

I really like Norra's ability but I always have trouble trying to get the Y's front arc to matter without torps. I guess vet gunner could really help there 

I ran the ARC-170 version of Norra last night with Predator, Zeb and a Tail Gunner, with Jan Ors, Bohdi Rook and AP-5 as wingmen. She was a force of nature.

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1 hour ago, ozmodon said:

When someone arc dodges out of both players arc and you get to reload. Seems powerful to me. 

If reloading is a good choice then you have screwed up badly. quiting for a turn and not even being able to get a target lock or anything is just bad, the game could be decided in that turn that your ship is loading new ammo.

Reload is a nice perk but should absolutely never be planned to use. Its a nice i have nothing else to do might as well reload, but really you should never be in a position with nothing to do or you messed up.

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23 minutes ago, PhantomFO said:

I ran the ARC-170 version of Norra last night with Predator, Zeb and a Tail Gunner, with Jan Ors, Bohdi Rook and AP-5 as wingmen. She was a force of nature.

The ARC-170 has a 3 die primary and goes faster on a medium base to get to range 1 faster 

I'm wondering about Ywing norra

Edited by ficklegreendice

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Alright, running into an incomplete understanding here. Did your Dad use a Quickbuild? 

Outside of that though, and this may be a silly question, can a Y-Wing even equip Veteran Turret Gunner? Hear me out. 

VTG Card has a Rotate requirement, but the Y-Wing's Rotate is red. Tactical Officer has a Coordinate requirementt, but specifies it should be a red Coordinate.

Now, my initial impression is that this is only because the purpose of Tactical Officer is to turn red Coordinates white. 

Rules Reference pg. 19 says only that the action must be on the action bar and cannot be only a linked action. I could see this being interpreted either way, with the base symbol requirement on the VTG card being interpreted either as a "white Rotate" or just "Rotate" 

I want to lean towards the Y-Wing being able to equip the card, because it is powerful on them, reasonably priced, and not a limited upgrade. I can see some merit in the argument though.

The card coming with the Y-Wing is no sort of guarantee anymore, and it is a powerful combo. One of the apps I use, Launch Bay Next, is not allowing the card to be equipped to Y-Wings. It could be a bug or a mistake on their part. It could be another bad assumption I made while trying to understand the rules of 2.0 correctly

Edited by RebelProfundity

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1 minute ago, RebelProfundity said:

Alright, running into an incomplete understanding here. Did your Dad use a Quickbuild? 

Outside of that though, and this may be a silly question, can a Y-Wing even equip Veteran Turret Gunner? Hear me out. 

VTG Card has a Rotate requirement, but the Y-Wing's Rotate is red. Tactical Officer has a Coordinate requirementt, but specifies it should be a red Coordinate.

Now, my initial impression is that this is only because the purpose of Tactical Officer is to turn red Coordinates white. 

Rules Reference pg. 19 says only that the action must be on the action bar and cannot be only a linked action. I could see this being interpreted either way, with the base symbol requirement on the VTG card being interpreted either as a "white Rotate" or just "Rotate" 

I want to lean towards the Y-Wing being able to equip the card, because it is powerful on them, reasonably priced, and not a limited upgrade. I can see some merit in the argument though.

The card coming in the Y-Wing is no sort of guarantee anymore, and it is a powerful combo. One of the apps I use, Launch Bay Next, is not allowing the card to be equipped to Y-Wings. It could be a bug or a mistake on their part. It could be another bad assumption I made while trying to understand the rules of 2.0 correctly

The y wing doesn't come natively with the rotate action, iirc. The turret you equip gives the y wing a white rotate action allowing it to equip vtg.

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6 minutes ago, Icelom said:

If reloading is a good choice then you have screwed up badly. quiting for a turn and not even being able to get a target lock or anything is just bad, the game could be decided in that turn that your ship is loading new ammo.

Reload is a nice perk but should absolutely never be planned to use. Its a nice i have nothing else to do might as well reload, but really you should never be in a position with nothing to do or you messed up.

It's an interesting stance, and may even be correct, but I can't help but feel that I disagree. "Doing something" is good, not doubt. But if you are choosing several rounds of 2-dice attacks at TIE defenders -OR- a round or two to disengage and reload powerful Proton Torpedoes, then I think a case can be made for the reload. I know that's just one example (and it's not even perfect because TIE defenders have the speed and maneuverability to hound your reloading Y-wing), but rather than "reload=you screwed up badly", I think "reload=you are leveraging your advantage."

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1 minute ago, El Scorcho said:

The y wing doesn't come natively with the rotate action, iirc. The turret you equip gives the y wing a white rotate action allowing it to equip vtg.

That's a good point. I am having trouble understanding why they made the choice to put a rotate requirement on it and not on say, hotshot Gunner, in that case. Not important, I needed to understand the turret adding the action better. Thanks. 

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7 minutes ago, Parakitor said:

It's an interesting stance, and may even be correct, but I can't help but feel that I disagree. "Doing something" is good, not doubt. But if you are choosing several rounds of 2-dice attacks at TIE defenders -OR- a round or two to disengage and reload powerful Proton Torpedoes, then I think a case can be made for the reload. I know that's just one example (and it's not even perfect because TIE defenders have the speed and maneuverability to hound your reloading Y-wing), but rather than "reload=you screwed up badly", I think "reload=you are leveraging your advantage."

In a scenario v a defender, red reload just leaves you dead to a white kturn

Or just about anything that can attack behind it 

Plus it'll probably range 1 you without issue since it gets boost now

You're just better off with turret + vet gunner

 

Red reload is wildly situational, you only use it if you're like on opposite sides of the table or you're just screwing yourself over for FAR too many turns 

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6 minutes ago, Xeletor said:

 Ywing has red reload which looks like rotate. Turret gives it white rotate.

Also: hi xwing forum! 2.0 brought me here, got all armada ships and need more plastic :)

 

Yup, exactly this. Also, looking more closely at the actual turret cards might have helped.

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10 minutes ago, Parakitor said:

It's an interesting stance, and may even be correct, but I can't help but feel that I disagree. "Doing something" is good, not doubt. But if you are choosing several rounds of 2-dice attacks at TIE defenders -OR- a round or two to disengage and reload powerful Proton Torpedoes, then I think a case can be made for the reload. I know that's just one example (and it's not even perfect because TIE defenders have the speed and maneuverability to hound your reloading Y-wing), but rather than "reload=you screwed up badly", I think "reload=you are leveraging your advantage."

Do not get me wrong i have used reload in high level games. However the times i did use it was because i had already won and my ship literally had nothing else to do, in a tight game i either dont have time to get multiple ordnance shots off or cant afford to give up a 2 dice attack.

If you can fire a missile, reload, then be in range to fire a missile again (maintaining required conditions like target lock) consistently then maybe, but i think your opponent was just not very good if that is the case. Generally when i plan i plan to beat good opponents and reload is almost useless against a good player. What i am saying is reload is not bad to have as an option, however it is bad to plan to use it as an option. If you think you will use the reload action in the planning phase of list building, then you need to rethink your list. (this is all my crazy opinion)

 

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My favorite imperial lists all involve at least 3 barrage rockets, generally 4+

Even with Saturation Salvo doubling the rate of spending, and never ending a game with more than a charge remaining on survivors, I've reloaded literally once

Versus full on TIE swarm, when we were down to Jonus + gamma v two blacks & Iden. There were some bull green dice at play so I was out of charges on Jonus before the game ended 

Because Jonus had faffed off, he got to reload a single rocket on the way back. That's it

 

 

Edited by ficklegreendice

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9 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

In a scenario v a defender, red reload just leaves you dead to a white kturn
Or just about anything that can attack behind it 
Plus it'll probably range 1 you without issue since it gets boost now
You're just better off with turret + vet gunner

Red reload is wildly situational, you only use it if you're like on opposite sides of the table or you're just screwing yourself over for FAR too many turns 

Just now, Icelom said:

What i am saying is reload is not bad to have as an option, however it is bad to plan to use it as an option. If you think you will use the reload action in the planning phase of list building, then you need to rethink your list. (this is all my crazy opinion)

I agree. I just bristle when people use such strong unilateral language against something. I think there are situations in which anything can be helpful, and I'm just happy to hear you say that. Still, you are absolutely correct that you should play to your strengths. I agree with what ficklegreendice said, Y-wing is the least capable of leveraging reload. It's like the Lambda vs the Reaper. If I want to jam the enemy, why would I choose the Lambda with the red jam action? I wouldn't! Similarly, if my goal is to fire ordnance and reload, the Y-wing is probably not the best pick. K-wing would serve you better (I can already hear you - yes I know the K-wing is much maligned in second edition, but for the purposes of reloading, it outstrips the Y-wing). I don't know why I had to say all that, but yeah. You have good points, gentlemen.

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2 hours ago, ficklegreendice said:

The ARC-170 has a 3 die primary and goes faster on a medium base to get to range 1 faster 

I'm wondering about Ywing norra

Could probably use a variant of my list from last night:

Norra Wexley (Y-Wing)
- Expert Handling
- Ion Cannon Turret
- R3 Astromech
- Veteran Turret Gunner

Jan Ors
- Moldy Crow
- Engine Upgrade

AP-5

Bodhi Rook
- Tactical Officer

Comes to exactly 200 points. Expert Handling and two sources of Coordinate should help Norra get into range with a focus and two target locks, while Jan upgrades her from a 2-die primary to a 3-die. Jan, Bodhi and AP-5 are also all able to earn their points in a dogfight on their own, as Jan is a boosting small turret at IN5, Bodhi is basically an assault helicopter in space, and AP-5 is only 30 points with front and rear arcs.

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