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Tress and CT Hero Discussion

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Long time reader, first time poster, and big fan of a1bert's eclipse eating. 

Is Pin Them Down not the best card in game? It's a guaranteed stun on multiple characters with unlimited range(dependent only on finding a character within line of sight). 

Murne's Double Agent for 1 more xp is limited to 3 spaces and threat less than the current threat level. But Pin them Down allows you to keep strong melee villains like Vader and RGC effectively locked down, while negating E-webs and the Tank from double attacking. If it was 4xp, only one character and just the Stun instead of Weaken as well I feel as if it would still be good.

 

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On 10/29/2018 at 10:00 AM, Destro911 said:

Long time reader, first time poster, and big fan of a1bert's eclipse eating. 

Is Pin Them Down not the best card in game? It's a guaranteed stun on multiple characters with unlimited range(dependent only on finding a character within line of sight). 

Murne's Double Agent for 1 more xp is limited to 3 spaces and threat less than the current threat level. But Pin them Down allows you to keep strong melee villains like Vader and RGC effectively locked down, while negating E-webs and the Tank from double attacking. If it was 4xp, only one character and just the Stun instead of Weaken as well I feel as if it would still be good.

 

Yes, at this point I'd say it's one of the strongest xp cards in the game, and the main thing that makes CT as good as he is, the other thing being Squad Tactics. Being able to effectively cripple 2 figures for an entire turn without even having to target them directly has been borderline oppressive in our games. I say borderline because getting hit by 2x 3-dice attacks and a 3rd 4-dice attack in a single activation vis-a-vis eJets with Show of Force and Sustained Fire has been equally crippling on the Empire's side. 

I don't think it would actually be playable in the form you gave, but I think if it only affected a single figure and could only be used against a figure that CT was directly targeting with an attack, it would still be good at 2xp. That being said, I think CT has enough deficiencies elsewhere that keep him from being an overly broken character. At least unless he gains his hero reward card, then he does become a monster. 

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On 10/29/2018 at 12:00 PM, Destro911 said:

Is Pin Them Down not the best card in game? It's a guaranteed stun on multiple characters with unlimited range(dependent only on finding a character within line of sight).

It's very good, especially for the cost. In the early game, it does an excellent job of suppressing major threats. Toward the end of the game, the stun is less of a big deal, because you're probably going to just try to eliminate things most of the time, but it's still situationally very useful, such as when fighting melee units or units with assault. Either way, the weaken effect continues to be useful against everything, since it reduces enemy defense for followup attacks and reduces offense in case you don't kill them before they activate.

The Imperial player in my last campaign felt it was too good for the cost, and I suppose I can't really point to anything comparable, but I think that's because the other stunning abilities in the game (like Gaarkhan's for instance), are overcosted and not that good. I wonder if the designers originally overestimated how good stunning would be by comparing it to Descent, where it's devastating due to all of the melee monsters.

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On 10/31/2018 at 2:24 PM, labcoat_samurai said:

The Imperial player in my last campaign felt it was too good for the cost, and I suppose I can't really point to anything comparable, but I think that's because the other stunning abilities in the game (like Gaarkhan's for instance), are overcosted and not that good. I wonder if the designers originally overestimated how good stunning would be by comparing it to Descent, where it's devastating due to all of the melee monsters.

Imperial Industry tho...

I have a feeling Pin Them Dowm originally only dealt Weaken (like Mynock Strike) and that late in the development cycle the play testers complained that it was too weak and so FFG added Stun at the last minute without changing anything else on the card and shipped it.

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1 minute ago, Tvboy said:

Imperial Industry tho...

I have a feeling Pin Them Dowm originally only dealt Weaken (like Mynock Strike) and that late in the development cycle the play testers complained that it was too weak and so FFG added Stun at the last minute without changing anything else on the card and shipped it.

Oh, stun is very powerful against heroes, because they can attack twice. I meant that I think they overestimated how useful it would be for the heroes to have. Most of the time, particularly when stunned by melee figures, a ranged imperial figure will just remove stun and then shoot from where they are without really losing much. Pin them Down is better, because you can stun from so far away that even a ranged figure will often be left with no good targets.

And yeah, it would be a bit too weak with just weaken, though weaken is the part that has the most synergy with CT's other abilities (particularly in denying evades from the white dice granted by Barrage attacks), so you might be right that they started there and then buffed it when that didn't seem like enough to justify 2 XP.

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On 9/5/2018 at 8:58 PM, Tvboy said:

What Tress doesn't do is team support, none of her abilities buff her allies in anyway except for Mynock Strike, which we have established is terrible, so if you like being Santa Clause handing out goodies to other players, Tress is probably not the hero for you. 

In fact, Gundark Throw can be used to move adjacent friendly figure 2 spaces once per turn... which can be very beneficial for some slow heroes and/or for careful positioning.

But of course I agree that this alone does not make Tress a support hero

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In my campaign at the moment, I have put a slight errata on Pin Them down based, on feedback on the forums.  I put forward, that damage has to go through to the Enemy to trigger Pin them down, and that CT-1701 needs line of sight to the stunned characters.

the game has been going well so far, it has been a 50/50 wins and losses so far.  though he did just win his reward and buy an E-33. so wee will see in the next mission, what happens

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15 minutes ago, JasonTheConner said:

How come Tress doesn't lose an ability when she's wounded?  Is that a misprint??

That's a good question.  They may have decided her starting abilities are too crucial for her to be playable.

Melee characters that don't have some means of closing gaps are often pretty close to unusable. When wounded, Davith is a much discussed example of this, as is Biv in general because of Up Close & Personal.  On the other side you have Gharkhaan's charge and Diala's Force Push.  Then there's Shyla who, late game, can cross the map and wipe a group.  So losing Tress's first ability will suck the fun out of the game for her player.

As for her second ability... well, those style tokens are the whole point of her.  In the first few missions of a long campaign she's not likely to have another source.

Well, that's just my guess.  To be honest, before you asked I hadn't even thought about it.

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Leg Hydraulics in an amazing skill that helps Tress get within striking range for melee attacks.  It does have it's downsides though.  It isn't reliable, eats focus, and can only be used at the very start of Tress's activation.  When wounded, she doesn't lose it, but does get worse dice for the test.  GY to GR is a definite drop off.

Fyrnock Style isn't lost on wounding, but there are downsides for it as well. Tress must keep her starting weapon.  It can't be sold for credits and she can only bring one other weapon.

With both skills having downsides, it helps that she doesn't lose them.  Tress is one of my favorite characters I've played so far.  She is well balanced on the power curve and her style is fun.

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On 3/8/2020 at 5:09 PM, player678037 said:

Leg Hydraulics in an amazing skill that helps Tress get within striking range for melee attacks.  It does have it's downsides though.  It isn't reliable, eats focus, and can only be used at the very start of Tress's activation.  When wounded, she doesn't lose it, but does get worse dice for the test.  GY to GR is a definite drop off.

Fyrnock Style isn't lost on wounding, but there are downsides for it as well. Tress must keep her starting weapon.  It can't be sold for credits and she can only bring one other weapon.

With both skills having downsides, it helps that she doesn't lose them.  Tress is one of my favorite characters I've played so far.  She is well balanced on the power curve and her style is fun.

Was going to point out exactly what you said in the bolded portion. She still has the ability, but the ability is reliant on the dice roll, which obviously gets worse when she is flipped. 

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On 10/23/2018 at 4:49 AM, Tvboy said:
So the cards that allow Tress to spend a single style token are Reinforced Cyberarm, Aryx Variation, Mynock Strike, Dianoga Sweep, Acklay Counter, and KDF itself. Of those, Aryx Variation, Mynock Strike, and Dianoga Sweep have additional costs of exhausting the card, so those cannot be comboed with themselves. So considering the relevant timing restriction of each card, the possible combinations are:
 
Aryx Variation <-> Mynock Strike
Reinforced Cyberarm <-> Dianoga Sweep
KDF <-> Cyberarm/Sweep/KDF
Acklay Counter <-> Acklay Counter

Just playing out first campaign with Tyrants now, so I’m trying to get my head around how KDF works. This list of combos is really helpful @Tvboy. I noticed Reinforced Cyberarm <-> Reinforced Cyberarm isn’t on your list. Could Tress use KDF to spend 1 style token to get +2 Damage with Cyberarm? And then could  she spend another style token for a total of +3 damage for 2 style tokens spent? 

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On 10/23/2018 at 4:49 AM, Tvboy said:
So the cards that allow Tress to spend a single style token are Reinforced Cyberarm, Aryx Variation, Mynock Strike, Dianoga Sweep, Acklay Counter, and KDF itself. Of those, Aryx Variation, Mynock Strike, and Dianoga Sweep have additional costs of exhausting the card, so those cannot be comboed with themselves. So considering the relevant timing restriction of each card, the possible combinations are:
 
Aryx Variation <-> Mynock Strike
Reinforced Cyberarm <-> Dianoga Sweep
KDF <-> Cyberarm/Sweep/KDF
Acklay Counter <-> Acklay Counter

Just playing out first campaign with Tyrants now, so I’m trying to get my head around how KDF works. This list of combos is really helpful @Tvboy. I noticed Reinforced Cyberarm <-> Reinforced Cyberarm isn’t on your list. Could Tress use KDF to spend 1 style token to get +2 Damage with Cyberarm? And then could  she spend another style token for a total of +3 damage for 2 style tokens spent? 

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On 10/23/2018 at 4:49 AM, Tvboy said:
So the cards that allow Tress to spend a single style token are Reinforced Cyberarm, Aryx Variation, Mynock Strike, Dianoga Sweep, Acklay Counter, and KDF itself. Of those, Aryx Variation, Mynock Strike, and Dianoga Sweep have additional costs of exhausting the card, so those cannot be comboed with themselves. So considering the relevant timing restriction of each card, the possible combinations are:
 
Aryx Variation <-> Mynock Strike
Reinforced Cyberarm <-> Dianoga Sweep
KDF <-> Cyberarm/Sweep/KDF
Acklay Counter <-> Acklay Counter

Just playing out first campaign with Tyrants now, so I’m trying to get my head around how KDF works. This list of combos is really helpful @Tvboy. I noticed Reinforced Cyberarm <-> Reinforced Cyberarm isn’t on your list. Could Tress use KDF to spend 1 style token to get +2 Damage with Cyberarm? And then could  she spend another style token for a total of +3 damage for 2 style tokens spent? 

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