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Arquitens Rant

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24 minutes ago, Piratical Moustache said:

Would I get slaughtered at an "average" tournament with this? On paper it seems good and I think it would be fun to play.

Genius or Stupid? 

Faction: Galactic Empire
Points: 385/400  

Commander: Darth Vader

Assault Objective: Most Wanted
Defense Objective: Fire Lanes
Navigation Objective: Dangerous Territory

 

Arquitens-class Light Cruiser (54 points)
-  Intel Officer  ( 7  points) 
-  Slaved Turrets  ( 6  points) 
= 67 total ship cost

 

Arquitens-class Light Cruiser (54 points)
-  Intel Officer  ( 7  points) 
-  Slaved Turrets  ( 6  points) 
= 67 total ship cost

 

[ flagship ] Arquitens-class Light Cruiser(54 points)
-  Darth Vader  ( 36  points) 
 Hand of Justice  ( 4  points) 
-  Captain Brunson  ( 5  points) 
-  Early Warning System  ( 7  points) 
-  Slaved Turrets  ( 6  points) 
= 112 total ship cost

 

Raider II-Class Corvette (48 points)
-  Disposable Capacitors  ( 3  points) 
-  Heavy Ion Emplacements  ( 9  points) 
= 60 total ship cost

 

Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points)
 Suppressor  ( 4  points) 
-  Minister Tua  ( 2  points) 
-  Electronic Countermeasures  ( 7  points) 
-  Slicer Tools  ( 7  points) 
= 43 total ship cost

 

2 Firespray-31s ( 36 points) 
= 36 total squadron cost

How do you fight:

Yavaris and aces, dual ISD, LMSU, regular MSU, Raddus, Ackbar, or anything with Demolisher?

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1 minute ago, geek19 said:

......Good luck!

Serious answer my plan is to try to focus fire on one target at a time targeting the brace with IO, ideally the Raider II will help crack up a heavier target with HIEs, while hopefully that Gozanti will be the world's biggest ***hole messing with Yavaris or the biggest threat. The 2 Firesprays I threw in there because squadronless builds were popular at the first (and only so far) tournament I went to, specifically double ISD. 4 out of 8 guys there ran 2 ISD variations and my ISD1, Demolisher, and double Raider build was pummeled as they had 10-23pt bids for first.

 

 

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7 hours ago, Piratical Moustache said:

Serious answer my plan is to try to focus fire on one target at a time targeting the brace with IO, ideally the Raider II will help crack up a heavier target with HIEs, while hopefully that Gozanti will be the world's biggest ***hole messing with Yavaris or the biggest threat. The 2 Firesprays I threw in there because squadronless builds were popular at the first (and only so far) tournament I went to, specifically double ISD. 4 out of 8 guys there ran 2 ISD variations and my ISD1, Demolisher, and double Raider build was pummeled as they had 10-23pt bids for first.

 

 

Geeks real question is, 

Does your list need a hard chin somewhere, like an ISD, to give your Arqs time to make their kills? 

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2 hours ago, Ginkapo said:

Geeks real question is, 

Does your list need a hard chin somewhere, like an ISD, to give your Arqs time to make their kills? 

Based on the times I've run a similar 3x ARQ battery list with a couple of Gozantis and aces, maybe not. What I do is use obstacles to break up an enemy's charge and spend my time on deployments to let him pin most of his list in place before committing my ARQ battery line. Ideally I'm forcing an opponent to approach with only one ship at a time, to hit it with all three ARQs. If I need to I speed up to gain some distance and stay at long range.

My list carries a couple of gozantis and a better squadron ball, in place of the RDR and presents for the other ships. This gives me a better response to enemy fighters, more deployment drops to get a better read on his list before dropping my ARQs, something to soften a primary target before it hits the ARQ line, and some passive defense to prevent fighters from shooting my ARQs when they're tangled with my fighters.

I think piratical may have a problem with Fire Lanes, because being tied down to one location means your opponent can deploy to concentrate all of their forces on that one spot and take it from you, since you cannot kite away as ARQs need to without giving away Fire Lanes. My list uses Planetary Ion cannon as another apparatus to soften up enemy ships on the approach, or create a zone where my opponents need to run away from. At worst they're committing their strategic in specific spots to move away those objective tokens, but otherwise your opponent gains nothing from the objective except to force their strategic into positions other than their choosing.

Edited by Norsehound

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9 hours ago, Ginkapo said:

Geeks real question is, 

Does your list need a hard chin somewhere, like an ISD, to give your Arqs time to make their kills? 

I have developed a love/hate relationship with the ISD, it's so good at what it does it feels like you have to take it. The ISD has been the center of so many lists... even with 4 variants it gets old you know?

 

7 hours ago, Norsehound said:

Based on the times I've run a similar 3x ARQ battery list with a couple of Gozantis and aces, maybe not. What I do is use obstacles to break up an enemy's charge and spend my time on deployments to let him pin most of his list in place before committing my ARQ battery line. Ideally I'm forcing an opponent to approach with only one ship at a time, to hit it with all three ARQs. If I need to I speed up to gain some distance and stay at long range.

My list carries a couple of gozantis and a better squadron ball, in place of the RDR and presents for the other ships. This gives me a better response to enemy fighters, more deployment drops to get a better read on his list before dropping my ARQs, something to soften a primary target before it hits the ARQ line, and some passive defense to prevent fighters from shooting my ARQs when they're tangled with my fighters.

I think piratical may have a problem with Fire Lanes, because being tied down to one location means your opponent can deploy to concentrate all of their forces on that one spot and take it from you, since you cannot kite away as ARQs need to without giving away Fire Lanes. My list uses Planetary Ion cannon as another apparatus to soften up enemy ships on the approach, or create a zone where my opponents need to run away from. At worst they're committing their strategic in specific spots to move away those objective tokens, but otherwise your opponent gains nothing from the objective except to force their strategic into positions other than their choosing.

I should swap out Fire Lanes as it's an anchor like you said. I thought about trying some TIEs but how could command them consistently in an ARQ list like this? 

It's so easy to make a small Rebel tarpit for lists while with the Empire I always struggle to make one that doesn't disintegrate in 5 minutes.

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1 hour ago, Piratical Moustache said:

I have developed a love/hate relationship with the ISD, it's so good at what it does it feels like you have to take it. The ISD has been the center of so many lists... even with 4 variants it gets old you know?

 

I should swap out Fire Lanes as it's an anchor like you said. I thought about trying some TIEs but how could command them consistently in an ARQ list like this? 

It's so easy to make a small Rebel tarpit for lists while with the Empire I always struggle to make one that doesn't disintegrate in 5 minutes.

ISD; I agree. It's one of my favorite ships but it is refreshing to see lists that don't have it. Its one of the reasons I'm satisfied with my ARQ battery.

Fighters; I can agree too, but a few of the Ensembles I've tried with this ARQ battery work decently. The one I use now has Fett and Stele backed up with Jendon and Dengar, finishing with Zetrick to grab squad's attention. My opponent has to do either come to the field with some tricks or do some key positioning to engage the ball in a way I don't like (Saber squadron is one effective counter, Mauler Mithel is another).

I kept the aces low in this iteration for a few reasons. At 4+1 rouge I can command all of them with two Gozantis, and I can spend the points to make them all token-carrying aces.

A previous iteration I ran had Jonus, Jendon, Fett, Dengar, Black Squadron, and Zetrik Strom. I figured I didn't have to command Dengar and Fett was self-sufficient, this fighter squadron was made really to protect Jonus as he was providing accuracy to the ARQs. Once I realized I didn't need that I changed up the ensemble.

I don't think you're going to get away with a total win without taking casualties against really good lists, which ultimately may be why this list won't rank high in the competitive scene. But I find it fun to fly, and I like seeing ARQs do well.

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Sorry I'm arriving in this thread late, but I will take up the shield and Nunchucks to defend the Arquitens.  

 

First off, I've got nothing against the nebulon - it's a fine ship.  The Arquitens' primary advantage OVER the Nebulon is in it's side arc's strength.  While the Nebulon has a great front arc, it's narrow and dodged MUCH too easily.  The neb often finds itself with only a side arc shot on an enemy, and if it's obstructed at all, then no shot at long range whatsoever.  

 I usually prefer the Light Cruiser over the Command Cruiser.  Cheaper = more ships in a build.  

 The Arquitens is much much better for this reason.  It's more reliable.  The Side arc is moderately strong and has a wide arc.  And since people will often try to get up close to you, the black die at close range honestly tends to become helpful, at least for me, because I typically DON'T navigate, I typically CF, and having a red and 2 black from my FRONT, in addition to 3 or 4 red from my side, is amazing for such a cheap ship.  I actually don't like Slaved Turrets on them very much, because of that exact reason.  I fly lots of them in a conga line and people will often try to "Cap the T", and cut me off, the black die is great for punching through a ship that's already been softened up by long range volleys.  I generally prefer TRC or Enhanced Armament, depending on my commander.  (Vader gets enhanced armament, Tagge gets TRC)

  The movement isn't great, I'll admit, but their side arcs COUNTER the weakness of poor movement.  The Arquitens movement is designed for them to do a circular strafe - trying to keep you at long range, while circling you.  It takes some practice to get used to flying this way, but the Arquiten's speed and clicks accommodate this style of flying very well.  I like to fly lots of them in groups, such that a ship coming in has to face 4 or 5 volleys from them.   Most ships cannot survive this, at least for very long.  

I hope once they are reprinted more people will have the opportunity to fly them in larger groups.  They are fun, and while the risk is high, the payoff for good red dice is huge!

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That would be broken IMO.  Intensify Firepower on that sucker would be insanity on wheels.  

1 Cmd Cruiser with IF, 

5x Light Cruisers, naked

1 Gozanti, + a few TIEs.   Insane firing line with dice mitigation.  

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4 minutes ago, Crabbok said:

That would be broken IMO.  Intensify Firepower on that sucker would be insanity on wheels.  

1 Cmd Cruiser with IF, 

5x Light Cruisers, naked

1 Gozanti, + a few TIEs.   Insane firing line with dice mitigation.  

Ever see a 4x Neb Gunline with IF?

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6 minutes ago, Crabbok said:

That would be broken IMO.  Intensify Firepower on that sucker would be insanity on wheels.  

1 Cmd Cruiser with IF, 

5x Light Cruisers, naked

1 Gozanti, + a few TIEs.   Insane firing line with dice mitigation.  

I don't think IF is needed with Vader. I've never felt so hosed with my dice after the initial + re-roll that IF is a necessity. If IF programmed 2 hits or a crit without spending the ship's sole evade, then it would be.

The Rebels are keen on this upgrade though when they don't have access to fleet-wide dice control, though.

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Neb's don't scare me.   I respect them and all... but they 

1) - Have to fly straight and POINT at you to hit you, 

and

2) - Players who like to Nav can easily dodge all of their arcs.  

 

Now if you point those nebs sideways and toss Ackbar in there.... well my friend NOW we're talking!

 

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Just now, Norsehound said:

I don't think IF is needed with Vader. I've never felt so hosed with my dice after the initial + re-roll that IF is a necessity. If IF programmed 2 hits or a crit without spending the ship's sole evade, then it would be.

The Rebels are keen on this upgrade though when they don't have access to fleet-wide dice control, though.

Who said anything about Vader?

 

Palp is just around the corner and would LOVE to see something like that happen.  

Edited by Crabbok

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I like to use Tarkin with Arquitens. I summon forth a CF token, reveal CF dials, get more dice and a reroll. It tastes great. I also, frequently, use EAs on mine, because I fly my Arquitens down the middle of the board frequently, as most games end up using one side of the board more than the other. Or, I get a sweet slash in.

Either way, there is nothing better than the time at my first SC when my opponent called 8 hits as I went to roll against the rear of his ISD, and it landed 8 hits.

Ah, the sweet broadsides.

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11 minutes ago, Crabbok said:

Who said anything about Vader?

 

Palp is just around the corner and would LOVE to see something like that happen.  

I did, because IF's intended function (improving your die rolls) is already handled with Vader, who improves ARQ dice results so much better.

I also don't see how Palpatine has a bearing on this, unless you mean stacking IF with Palpatine on such a list?

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7 hours ago, Norsehound said:

I did, because IF's intended function (improving your die rolls) is already handled with Vader, who improves ARQ dice results so much better.

I also don't see how Palpatine has a bearing on this, unless you mean stacking IF with Palpatine on such a list?

yup

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13 minutes ago, MandalorianMoose said:

yup

Eh, I'd stick with Vader if you're loading up ARQs with the intent on increasing their firepower.

Between adding one damage to an anemic 2-hit 2-blank roll or re-rolling those blanks into doubles, crits, or accuracy I like maximizing my firepower regardless of the enemy's defense token situation. 6 dice brought down to 3 still exhausts a brace, but at least it's better than doing only 2 damage on the brace turn, and wishing I used it on the next when my dice roll attacks are better.

IMO, IF works in situations where you have lots of ships that cap at 2 red dice or something and need the extra insurance to score hits and not a lot of redundant defense tokens. Something like CR-90s in a place where they can't take TRCs (or, appropriately, scout hammerheads that don't want to risk their lone evade). ARQs on the other hand can scale between 0 and 6 (or 10 damage if you CF with Slaved turrets). That kind of potential needs more than just guaranteeing one hit in order to get maximum use out of it.

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55 minutes ago, Norsehound said:

Eh, I'd stick with Vader if you're loading up ARQs with the intent on increasing their firepower.

Between adding one damage to an anemic 2-hit 2-blank roll or re-rolling those blanks into doubles, crits, or accuracy I like maximizing my firepower regardless of the enemy's defense token situation. 6 dice brought down to 3 still exhausts a brace, but at least it's better than doing only 2 damage on the brace turn, and wishing I used it on the next when my dice roll attacks are better.

IMO, IF works in situations where you have lots of ships that cap at 2 red dice or something and need the extra insurance to score hits and not a lot of redundant defense tokens. Something like CR-90s in a place where they can't take TRCs (or, appropriately, scout hammerheads that don't want to risk their lone evade). ARQs on the other hand can scale between 0 and 6 (or 10 damage if you CF with Slaved turrets). That kind of potential needs more than just guaranteeing one hit in order to get maximum use out of it.

There are plenty of ways to reroll dice outside of Vader. 

I do lean on the side of Vader paired with IO on every Arq should be more effective than Palp with reroll tech on every Arq. But one is more expensive than the other, cause let’s be real you will ALSO be slapping slaved/ea on the arqs in the Vader list, bringing up the cost per Arq considerably when paying for both IO and a Turbolaser. 

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6 minutes ago, MandalorianMoose said:

There are plenty of ways to reroll dice outside of Vader. 

I do lean on the side of Vader paired with IO on every Arq should be more effective than Palp with reroll tech on every Arq. But one is more expensive than the other, cause let’s be real you will ALSO be slapping slaved/ea on the arqs in the Vader list, bringing up the cost per Arq considerably when paying for both IO and a Turbolaser. 

...but ones not accessible to ARQs (leading shots) that retain the amount of dice they are throwing and can score hits (DTTs). Tarkin can give every ship a single token, but only re-roll one die.

I run IO with Slaved Turrets often in tournament lists and it helps me win games. I'm not worried about the cost in light of the disgusting amount of damage I can force on a target ship.

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