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Chucklehead1

Updated Rebel Sab and Royal Guard cards

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Pretty  sure they come in the newest printings of the Core and Rebel Sab packs. If you don't want to gamble, there are tournament promos with the updated wording, including the errata'd Officers, that's really cheap on ebay. 

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8 minutes ago, subtrendy2 said:

I wish they'd just put eratta'd cards in new boxes.

They do, the recent printings have the errata in their according to people I know who have bought the game recently. Just depends on whether you get a new or old printing. Buy from a brick and mortar store that has a lot of product turnover. 

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Just now, Tvboy said:

They do, the recent printings have the errata in their according to people I know who have bought the game recently. Just depends on whether you get a new or old printing. Buy from a brick and mortar store that has a lot of product turnover. 

I guess I wasn't clear in what I meant.

 

I mean like, if the erratta's cards came with stuff like Lothal or HotE.  You know, so us veterans don't have to buy a whole new core box because FFG didn't plan accordingly.

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1 minute ago, subtrendy2 said:

I guess I wasn't clear in what I meant.

 

I mean like, if the erratta's cards came with stuff like Lothal or HotE.  You know, so us veterans don't have to buy a whole new core box because FFG didn't plan accordingly.

Gotcha. In that case it would have come with Return to Hoth or Bespin Gambit since the errata hit back in December of 2015. 

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1 hour ago, neosmagus said:

FFG should have included errata cards in expansions.

Agree.  This is what they did with Arkham Horror years back.  Would also be happy to send them a SASE in exchange for corrected cards.

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3 hours ago, subtrendy2 said:

I guess I wasn't clear in what I meant.

 

I mean like, if the erratta's cards came with stuff like Lothal or HotE.  You know, so us veterans don't have to buy a whole new core box because FFG didn't plan accordingly.

They wouldn't do that because then it would give us two copies of an elite card without having to buy two boxes :) Although at this point nobody is buying two elite RG or eSabs..

I remember an interview a while ago where one of the designers was like "We never saw 4x4 coming because we never in a million years thought people would buy multiples of a box to be able to run extra units."  It's ALMOST as if this sales design was an unfortunate accident for us :P 

Ok settle down guys settle down dont jump to the ARE YOU KIDDING ME THIS IS A BUSINESS IM FROTHING AT THE MOUTH !!!!!

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Why are the components no longer functional? (for argument's sake?)

The original cards can still be used in skirmish tournaments as legal components, they just have stats and abilities different than printed on the cards themselves.

 

Edited by a1bert

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7 hours ago, a1bert said:

Why are the components no longer functional? (for argument's sake?)

The original cards can still be used in skirmish tournaments as legal components, they just have stats and abilities different than printed on the cards themselves.

 

I know you're playing Devil's Advocate here, but that's still kind of silly.

 

Of course the card is not functional if the text is inaccurate to what it should represent. 

 

It doesn't stop you from playing the game (because of effort on the players' behalf, not anything related to the card itself), but why don't we just draw a chalk grid on the ground, print off some of the deployment cards on looseleaf, and use pebbles for our minis?

 

When we pay for a game, it's largely for the components inside. And if FFG decides that the components were not satisfactory for a fair and balanced experience, I really don't see a reasonable argument that it's the player's responsibility to cobble together a fix.

 

 

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On the other hand... do we really want to send a signal to FFG that if they make any effort to improve or support their game after release, it's going to cost them money to replace everyone's game components?

Don't get me wrong, I'd like to see replacement cards in one of the new expansions or available for separate purchase. Either would be fine by me. But saying to FFG, "you made your game better, NOW REPLACE OUR COMPONENTS BECAUSE THEY'RE NO LONGER FUNCTIONAL" will just lead them to think that next time, should this ever happen again... rather than fixing the problematic units, just ignore it. Had they done that this time, we'd all still be playing 4x4 four years later. That doesn't feel like a win to me.

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1 hour ago, Bitterman said:

On the other hand... do we really want to send a signal to FFG that if they make any effort to improve or support their game after release, it's going to cost them money to replace everyone's game components?

Yes we should send that signal, because it's their game. I really don't see fixing the game to be player's responsibility

We purchase the game to have fun. If FFG simply ignored 4x4 I can't imagine a lot of us are still going to have fun and would most likely have stopped playing a long time ago

1 hour ago, Bitterman said:

Don't get me wrong, I'd like to see replacement cards in one of the new expansions or available for separate purchase. Either would be fine by me. But saying to FFG, "you made your game better, NOW REPLACE OUR COMPONENTS BECAUSE THEY'RE NO LONGER FUNCTIONAL" will just lead them to think that next time, should this ever happen again... rather than fixing the problematic units, just ignore it. Had they done that this time, we'd all still be playing 4x4 four years later. That doesn't feel like a win to me.

Maybe I'm misreading your tone but it sounds like you're arguing that as players we should tolerate/put up with problems so that the company will still make new contents. My point is that we should not tolerate bad contents, and if that means the company stops making new content and kill off the (bad) game I don't really see it as a loss 

Edited by ricope

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3 hours ago, ricope said:

Yes we should send that signal, because it's their game. I really don't see fixing the game to be player's responsibility

We purchase the game to have fun. If FFG simply ignored 4x4 I can't imagine a lot of us are still going to have fun and would most likely have stopped playing a long time ago

Maybe I'm misreading your tone but it sounds like you're arguing that as players we should tolerate/put up with problems so that the company will still make new contents. My point is that we should not tolerate bad contents, and if that means the company stops making new content and kill off the (bad) game I don't really see it as a loss 

Yes, let's kill off an entire game because of an oversight on a certain combination or how a rule pans out. Or, like civilised people, accept the promo cards that really are quite easily available as the fix to it, even if you refuse to simply print out the provided errata-ed cards in the FAQ. I wish they would give IA the x-wing 2.0 treatment so everything becomes one living document instead, meaning they can tweak and finetune at will. You want a company MORE engaged with their product, not hope to god they get every single detail right at launch and then never touch it again. Your vision on gamesdesign seems highly unrealistic, and based on wishful thinking, rather than what is actually practical in the real world.

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5 hours ago, ricope said:

Maybe I'm misreading your tone but it sounds like you're arguing that as players we should tolerate/put up with problems so that the company will still make new contents. My point is that we should not tolerate bad contents, and if that means the company stops making new content and kill off the (bad) game I don't really see it as a loss 

Well, I do, and I'd rather you didn't push FFG into killing something I'm enjoying, thanks.

They put out an errata, for units that turned out to be broken once they got into the hands of the public, to IMPROVE THE GAME. The errata is freely available. Heck, the RULES OF THE GAME are freely available, let's not forget that. You would have putting out an errata to IMPROVE THE GAME be something that costs them money to do. You demand perfection in a product you've bought - not just perfection NOW (snapped spears on Gamorrean models), but perfection AT ALL POINTS IN THE FUTURE (they didn't know 4x4 was going to be so broken). And if you can't have that perfection, like the self-entitled child that you apparently are, you'd rather they didn't make it better but instead scrapped the whole thing, because to you no game is better than a game that wasn't quite perfect but they put effort into trying to make it more so. How old are you!?

I say again. I get the appeal of replacement cards. I'd like to see them made available in expansions, or for separate purchase. Fine. Trying to insist that the fix that they made freely available for the broken cards (do you not have access to a printer and some glue?) is somehow worse than them not fixing it (and letting the Skirmish community shrink to nothing) is ridiculously pathetic. And actually, I think you probably know this, but now you've been called on it and you're too obstinate to back down.

I'd also like you to point me to a single complex wargame anywhere in the world with an active player community that doesn't put out FAQs or errata. (I mean, there's chess, but I don't think that counts). The perfection you're insisting on isn't possible.

Edited by Bitterman

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We're all enjoying the game precisely because FFG put out fixes for it, if FFG didn't fix the 4x4 the skirmish community would likely be long time dead, don't you think? And if FFG simply stopped with 4x4, refused to put out new content and scrapped the entire game I don't really see it as a loss. So on that point I can't see your argument on "that next time, should this ever happen again... rather than fixing the problematic units, just ignore it", because they wouldn't dare to ignore it. Ignoring it means killing off the skirmish player base and everyone stays in the 4x4 era (which I'm happy to let IA die if that was the case) and nobody would buy more content = less $$ for FFG. Would you still play IA skirmish if FFG ignored the problem? Hence you're worrying over nothing and we might as well send that signal: if you want our $$, you need to make new fixes, and if those "new fixes" costs you (FFG) some $$, so be it

My point was that FFG should be responsible in fixing their own game: they broke it, they fix it. Don't rely on players to do their job for them. I play IA because I enjoy new contents, not because "ooh let's not tell FFG that we're unhappy because that'll discourage them making new contents", that's BS: vote with your wallet

I never said anything about "requiring 100% perfection at all times, otherwise we should kill it"

Edited by ricope

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They did fix it.

At zero cost to you, or anyone else.

You're literally ranting about nothing.

But you're nevertheless insisting that their product is defective, and demanding they spend money to address some perceived slight on their part in a way that will discourage them from making fixes in future. That's self-defeating, over-entitled and nonsensical.

Edited by Bitterman

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I think what you are trying to say and what you are actually saying are two different things. But to go back to it: no, I do not agree at all that the solution they went for (releasing fixed promo, releasing new stock with fixed cards, and making cards available to print for yourself) was in any way faulty. I would even say that they went above and beyond what would be expected of a gaming company in fixing it. Even better, I bet that if you contact their support and said your cards are faulty they would even send you the new fixed ones for free, since that's what they tend to do whenever there is an issue with anything.

In short: don't make a big splatter over nothing.

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Let's not pretend that a handfull of fixed depolyment cards (that are apparently already being printed anyway) is going to "kill" the game. 

 

I mean, good lord guys, the Independent Spirit Awards are still several months away.

 

And it goes both ways- with an absolutely equal amount of evidence (none) I could easily claim that the faulty and outdated core components are part of the reason that the IA skirmish scene is already struggling.  At least in that case, part of my claim isn't a hypothetical. :P

 

If they absolutely have to, charge a couple bucks extra in the expansion to recoup the minuscule cost of this.

 

 

Edited by subtrendy2

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Everyone keeps speculating about when FFG will print the Boba Fett fix and the this unit fix and the that unit fix and how clunky attachments are.  Maybe they should just provide a card only booster for purchase with the errata's and rebalanced cards.

And maybe they should have Skirmish deployment cards with a number on the icon so they can have deployment cards that work for 2p, 3p and 4p Skirmish scenarios.

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15 hours ago, Bitterman said:

They did fix it.

At zero cost to you, or anyone else.

You're literally ranting about nothing.

But you're nevertheless insisting that their product is defective, and demanding they spend money to address some perceived slight on their part in a way that will discourage them from making fixes in future. That's self-defeating, over-entitled and nonsensical.

What? I wasn't ranting about anything. I was saying how you were concerned that "if we send the signal that make FFG unhappy they'll start ignoring the problem and stop producing new contents" is not only ridiculous but also unwarranted

Ignoring the problem = losing the skirmish player base = less money for FFG = everyone stays in the 4x4 era. You're looking back now and can say "I'm so glad they put out fixes for it and continued to produce new contents" but honestly I don't see it as a loss if they decided to end IA skirmish if everyone stayed in 4x4

They wouldn't dare to ignore the problem if they want our money. It's their (FFG) game, let them fix it and if they don't players would walk away. It's their job to promote a healthy meta and provide a balanced game, not us players

Edit: regarding your 2nd point that's correct. Nobody can be 100% perfect as long as they're willing to fix it, and if they don't (by refusing to shell out money) then players would no longer have any incentive to give FFG money, it's simple as that. Company caters to players, you're suggesting the other way around "oo please please FFG don't stop making fixes" while I'm saying "if they stop that's fine by me, we'd just stop playing"

Edited by ricope

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