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Veve7

Two decks that can win the game in one round with a combo

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The two investigators are Lola and Minh, the combo is Will of Survive+ Action generating cards. In two I will be able to get to 28 action with no token reveal, in 4 I will be capable to get to 50 I guess...  I will post the 0 xp versions on Arkhamdb.

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https://arkhamdb.com/decklist/view/7066/minh-thi-phan-two-decks-that-can-win-the-game-in-one-round-w-1.0
https://arkhamdb.com/decklist/view/7065/lola-hayes-two-decks-that-can-win-the-game-in-one-round-with-1.0

I took a look.  These decks are not optimistic.  Thinking we can solve world hunger, achieve world peace, and colonize Mars by dinner time tonight is optimistic.  These decks assume things will go better than that.  The very first step is for Lola to succeed at two Double or Nothing'ed Quick Thinking attacks by 3+ - with no other cards in hand, because she used them all to set up the combo.

They also just don't work.  The "in two" combo plan requires 11 resources from Lola and ignores the storage limit on Borrowed Time.

It's an interesting mental exercise in what can happen if everything goes beyond perfect.  But not much more than that.

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Thank you, is my fault I haven't seen the limit, so this will reduce to 23, respectivly 38 actions in  2, respectivly 4 players. The idea is that it uses Will Of Survive, so you do not need to reveal tokens, plus Lola will have Key of Ys with three horror and Monstrous Transformation(8+2/3 attack or even more with Cryptic Research by Minh in the same turn, so you need just <=7/8 attack enemies, which are a lot).

Edited by Veve7

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OK then.  Still trying to unravel this.

If I'm following, you're using: Key of Ys (5), Leo de Luca (1), two .41 Derringers (2), Ace in the Hole (3), Borrowed Time (3), 2x Quick Thinking, 2x Double or Nothing, True Survivor (3), 2x Will to Survive (3), Monstrous Transformation, and an Improvisation.  That's a 12 card combo that requires 36 XP (40 if you want the second True Survivor and Leo to help the draw, although they're not used in the combo) to get into your deck, and 25 resources.  Did I miss anything?  Oh...  you need a way to get three horror on her, and enemies with at least 8 total health engaged so you can get all 4 Derringer shots off.  It will also take 8 actions just to play the various assets and events, leaving nothing to make the attacks with.  So turn 3 you could start your banking, and turn 4 you'd have your twenty-whatever actions.

And that's just Lola's half of it.  Minh's half is fairly tame, requiring only double Guidance, one Eidetic Memory, and two Cryptic Research.  So you ONLY need a perfect 5-card opening hand for her part, although I suppose there would be some flexibility with a second Eidetic Memory covering some part of that.

So Lola's chance for the draw comes out somewhere below 0.0025169%, assuming that Minh manages to triple-Cryptic her.  I have no idea where the resources come from to play it all, and at this point I'm afraid to ask.

Although amusingly, you have about a 50% chance of drawing a Crisis of Identity in that mix, blowing the entire plan straight to ****.

Entirely possible I missed something in there, I'll freely admit that I wasn't really putting a ton of effort into this bit of fantasy fluff.

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The key take away from here is Will to Survive and extra actions is a great combo and should be used.  Even if you can combo only Borrowed Time and Will to Survive for a single turn, you are good to go (only Lola can do this atm).  Throw in a resourceful and you can do it a few times in a game (if Will to Survive is not the bottom two cards in your deck). 

Yorrick and Wendy can do similar things but get their extra actions elsewhere.  Getting 5-8 actions without needing a test is great and can break most scenarios if you do it once.  eg you may not win that turn, but you are so far ahead, the game is in the bag.

I think the goal of getting XY actions in a single turn misses the point.  Its more efficient and more realistic to perform smaller numbers of extra actions over multiple turns than to try for the ultimate number in a single turn.  I get why its a neat mental exercise and why it makes an exciting topic subject.

Edited by Jobu

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If this thread was "Hey, here's an interesting thought experiment: How many actions is it possible to achieve in a single round? For bonus points, how many can you get and still use Will to Survive? Here's my starting point", this would be really interesting. Unfortunately, as it stands, it reads like you're bragging about having assembled a really powerful combo for actual play, one that is not hugely obscure (every card that gives extra actions, all mashed together) and that would never be viable in play.

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My issue isn't the bragging.  My issue is the lack of demonstration.  If you claim something is OP, show us, like Seastan does with LotR lcg.  Claiming a combo breaks the the game when it clearly doesn't in a majority of situations is bad for the game, because then you get the devs thinking they have to fix a problem that doesn't exist.  

That said, this combo seemes like it will make you waste time to set up, and you are relying on two exceptional cards.  I would argue a good number of scenarios will end the game by the time you set up, esprcially on hard or expert. Borrowed Time never stacks past 3 and always gives you your actions on the next turn you take.  It can be strong, but game breaking?  In a game with a clock, I don't think so.

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12 hours ago, Buhallin said:

 ...Ace in the Hole (3),...

I mean, if we're getting super technical, Exceptional cards cost double exp. 

"Technically correct - the best kind of correct!" - Futurama

 

To be fair, Will to Survive/Ace in the Hole is likely the best reason to run Lola. I've killed an... *cough* Unspeakable *cough*... with her in one turn.

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7 minutes ago, Iuchi Toshimo said:

I mean, if we're getting super technical, Exceptional cards cost double exp. 

"Technically correct - the best kind of correct!" - Futurama

I factored that into the XP cost :)  The numbers are to show the level of the card.  I started it to distinguish the version of the .41, and then just carried it through the rest.

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On 9/4/2018 at 2:32 PM, Buhallin said:

Thinking we can solve world hunger, achieve world peace, and colonize Mars by dinner time tonight is optimistic.

That is such common core thinking. If you send your kids to charter school they can get all that done by afternoon nap time.

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On 9/5/2018 at 1:18 PM, Jobu said:

The key take away from here is Will to Survive and extra actions is a great combo and should be used.  Even if you can combo only Borrowed Time and Will to Survive for a single turn, you are good to go (only Lola can do this atm).  Throw in a resourceful and you can do it a few times in a game (if Will to Survive is not the bottom two cards in your deck). 

Yorrick and Wendy can do similar things but get their extra actions elsewhere.  Getting 5-8 actions without needing a test is great and can break most scenarios if you do it once.  eg you may not win that turn, but you are so far ahead, the game is in the bag.

I think the goal of getting XY actions in a single turn misses the point.  Its more efficient and more realistic to perform smaller numbers of extra actions over multiple turns than to try for the ultimate number in a single turn.  I get why its a neat mental exercise and why it makes an exciting topic subject.

This.  It's important that mega-combo decks still have individual parts that perform reasonably when everything doesn't come together perfectly, and you can build for both.  I'm currently running a combo ashcan deck that uses True Survivor/Will to Survive (+ Resourceful + 2x Quick Thinking) to take extra-long Will to Survive turns by converting resources into extra plays of True Survivor on the big turn for 3R/action (Resourceful returns True Survivor, 2x Quick thinking gives an action to replay True Survivor plus an action to spare), with Yaotl's 4 cards / round self-milling finding the pieces, and David Renfield (+ Pete's special + Inspiring Presence) providing big $$$ when things go right.  But when things don't go right, those do fine simply played for base value (Inspiring Presence untapping/healing Duke, Yaotl giving boosts with Desperate skills).  And often the scenario doesn't *need* 12+ auto-success actions, it just needs 6.  But when you *do* need a hail mary, that's when you can switch gears to digging hard for the combo, and that's a good option to have.

(Current decklist, from a 4p Forgotten Age game: https://arkhamdb.com/decklist/view/7165/duke-and-yaotl-and-renfield-make-three-1.0)

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