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brettpkelly

An Ode to Rebel Graffiti

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The point about Sabine being basically invulnerable on the next map in rotation is significant. There's a spot on the map where literally nobody except another mobile or massive figure can get to her. Meanwhile she can pop in and out of that spot and terrorize the opponent's terminal, all while safely score free VPs once she draws RG.

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2 hours ago, defkhan1 said:

The point about Sabine being basically invulnerable on the next map in rotation is significant. There's a spot on the map where literally nobody except another mobile or massive figure can get to her. Meanwhile she can pop in and out of that spot and terrorize the opponent's terminal, all while safely score free VPs once she draws RG.

Which maps are going to come into rotation? For i forgot them and when it is gonna be

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47 minutes ago, erlucius90 said:

Which maps are going to come into rotation? For i forgot them and when it is gonna be

Lothal Wastes will be the next one. Sabine can hide in the plus sign shaped blocking terrain near the top.

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2 hours ago, brettpkelly said:

Are you suggesting that RG is going to drive sales? 

FFG have been selling power creep in every single game and IA is no exception. No unfixed deployments from the earliest sees any play. It was the same in Xwing. Thats just how they work. 

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4 hours ago, brettpkelly said:

Are you suggesting that RG is going to drive sales? 

I see Spectre cell as an attempt to give easy access and a low cost alternative to new players and people that bought the core box in the past and don't want to make a huge investment to build a competitive list in next meta. So yes, definitely casual gamers are an important driver and I believe there's undisclosed potential in those who already loves campaign but for whatever reason didn't get into skirmish yet. This is a great moment to approach skirmish for the first time because people don't have to think too much, don't have to spend too much and can get a lot of fun playing thanks to the "broken" command cards that can create epic plot twists.

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1 hour ago, Golan Trevize said:

I see Spectre cell as an attempt to give easy access and a low cost alternative to new players and people that bought the core box in the past and don't want to make a huge investment to build a competitive list in next meta. So yes, definitely casual gamers are an important driver and I believe there's undisclosed potential in those who already loves campaign but for whatever reason didn't get into skirmish yet. This is a great moment to approach skirmish for the first time because people don't have to think too much, don't have to spend too much and can get a lot of fun playing thanks to the "broken" command cards that can create epic plot twists.

I agree with you in the sense that SC is a good entry point. I disagree that ffg is marketing how "easy" and random the game is or how op their new cards are.  players trying to jump in are not going to be swayed by broken cards, if anything winning/losing by random chance would drive more players away than attract them. 

Imperial assault skirmish is supposed to be competitive. 

Edited by brettpkelly

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7 hours ago, a1bert said:

Cheap Shot: Like we don't tend to see the unfixed Gideon and C-3PO being played anymore because of power creep? ;)

 

Hehe, fair point. Now name a non-support one. ;)

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6 hours ago, brettpkelly said:

I agree with you in the sense that SC is a good entry point. I disagree that ffg is marketing how "easy" and random the game is or how op their new cards are.  players trying to jump in are not going to be swayed by broken cards, if anything winning/losing by random chance would drive more players away than attract them. 

Imperial assault skirmish is supposed to be competitive. 

Hm, did we just step away from Rebel grafitti into something else here...? Are there other things in Lothal block that is effortless goodness or extra random?

 

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6 hours ago, brettpkelly said:

I agree with you in the sense that SC is a good entry point. I disagree that ffg is marketing how "easy" and random the game is or how op their new cards are.  players trying to jump in are not going to be swayed by broken cards, if anything winning/losing by random chance would drive more players away than attract them. 

Imperial assault skirmish is supposed to be competitive. 

I don't feel the cards you mentioned as broken, although I understand they're more powerful than the average. Their greatest weakness indeed is that you know your opponent has them in its deck when they play specific traits. Most of the times you can reliably guess if they have some of those cards in hand. You can just deal with such cards at best of your ability. In a game with a player like me they can have a huge impact, I'm sure that against a player like you the impact of these cards is reduced. At the end of the day, best players in this game are the ones that can deal with variance better than others. In a pure chess game a computer can win against world champion, in SWIA there's no deterministic way to determine optimum and this is what makes the game funnier than chess. I'm saying that some degree of randomness is beneficial to this game increasing fun and spectacularity. I believe the current amount of dice and card randomness is just fine. If the issue with randomness is when/if you draw a specific card I would say that issue is the way cards are drawn. Perhaps there are better ways than terminals and R2/RHC/Jabba/BM, maybe after so many years shaking the game a bit can help to revive community. It would be nice to have real new ideas rather than new boxes plenty of new cards that deal with old cards until the next box.

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1 hour ago, Ram said:

Hehe, fair point. Now name a non-support one. ;)

It's not on me to name a figure that is being played from wave 1 without a "fix card" to prove there is no power creep.

You need to come up with figures that were played before and no longer are to show there might be power creep (like Stormtrooper? Was it a thing then, is it no longer a thing now? But that is probably more due to the scoring change than anything - you no longer can deny points by sticking the remaining figure out of harm's way). A lot of the groups from the core have never been competitive. Them not being competitive now is not showing power creep.

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1 hour ago, a1bert said:

It's not on me to name a figure that is being played from wave 1 without a "fix card" to prove there is no power creep.

You need to come up with figures that were played before and no longer are to show there might be power creep (like Stormtrooper? Was it a thing then, is it no longer a thing now? But that is probably more due to the scoring change than anything - you no longer can deny points by sticking the remaining figure out of harm's way). A lot of the groups from the core have never been competitive. Them not being competitive now is not showing power creep.

Early on, 4x4 was a thing and it is not any more. Reb sabs was considered borderline broken (was erratad though). During the early Days, rebel trooper lists was the big thing. Twins was a dominant list as well. Then came Hunters in Jabbas realm and turned the meta into Hunter meta. It also saw the rise of Jedi Luke and the reapperance of Imperials with the Jet troopers. With the release of Heart of the empire, Vader and Han was all over the Place and with the fix from Jawa, IG became a force.

Unfixed, I see the following pieces being played from the 7 Waves and up to Before Jabbas realm:
rOfficer
Gideon
C3PO
Alliance smugglers
MHD-19
Maybe Jyn

Probably missing some, but that the games Power level has gone up I Think is without a doubt.

Edited by Ram

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7 hours ago, Ram said:

Probably missing some, but that the games Power level has gone up I Think is without a doubt.

Jabba’s set a new power curve. Since then, everything has fit pretty well at that curve. A lot of stuff from before is not necessarily broken, it’s just waiting on future synergies. See Jyn. She was useless for so long, then came the Han fix and some great smuggler cards and there is a place for her in the meta. 

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The power curve discussion is missing the point. The offensive curve has increased, but so have health pools and defensive tools. The amount of points you need to win the game is unchanged. Let's say the power curve keeps increasing and they eventually release a card that gives you 20 VP. The power curve doesn't make that effect any less bad. 

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On 9/2/2018 at 4:23 AM, brettpkelly said:

We don't need another good situation to play negation in. Also negating a card that had already netted 4 points feels real bad. 

Comm disrupt is unreliable for 2 points. Again it's luck of the draw if you have it in time for RG and even then you're sacrificing a 2 cost card slot for just a chance to counter a 0. Just talking about that is a pretty good indication of the card's power. 

SC doesn't have good card draw so strain isn't great against it. Strain also doesn't do anything against RG in the opening hand.

As far as sabine surviving, lothal wastes has a spot she can hide and have los to both terminals where only massive or mobile figures or arcing shot can touch her at all. Otherwise she's completely safe. But that's a seperate discussion. But she has no trouble getting her value behind the powerful front line of sc that opponents just can't ignore. 

Play Negation to counter Rebel Graffiti, perfect. Now I have no fear about comboing my Ezra to pummel to SiN to Chopper/SC to Ezra attack to start of next round Ezra attack again... with 4 movement if need be.

Negation already has a role, forcing the enemy to choose to split it makes RG that much more OP.

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1 hour ago, FrogTrigger said:

Play Negation to counter Rebel Graffiti, perfect. Now I have no fear about comboing my Ezra to pummel to SiN to Chopper/SC to Ezra attack to start of next round Ezra attack again... with 4 movement if need be.

Negation already has a role, forcing the enemy to choose to split it makes RG that much more OP.

Huh? Pummel is 1 point, Strength in Numbers is 1 point... where is the link between those cards and Negation?

Assuming you meant Comm Disruption - kill the opponent's spy and you're safe anyway, he now has 2 negates instead of a proper comm disrupt

Edited by Kalandros

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It's pretty badly designed. Basically no thought goes into using the card. Even OtL requires some thought put into positioning to make sure it can be used to avoid an attack (I will shamefully say that in my early attempts at playing Han, I sometimes put him in places where he couldn't OtL out of danger). Turn 1 RG is going to be a groan-inducing for players on both sides. Frustrating to the player on the receiving end, embarrassing to the player who lucked into it on turn 1. "Kill Sabine" is not a great answer when it means you are ignoring Ezra, Kanan and Zeb who are going to be in your face first and dealing a ton of damage and extremely hard to kill. 

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Rebel Graffiti is even worth it, if you don't have Sabine. 2 VP for a 0 cost card? I take it. Compare that to Of no Importance, a card that has seen a lot of play before the VP = figure cost rules change.

Edited by DerBaer

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5 hours ago, DerBaer said:

Rebel Graffiti is even worth it, if you don't have Sabine. 2 VP for a 0 cost card? I take it. Compare that to Of no Importance, a card that has seen a lot of play before the VP = figure cost rules change.

Agreed. I'm struggling to think of circumstances when I'd take a Rebel list without it.

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2 hours ago, Bitterman said:

Agreed. I'm struggling to think of circumstances when I'd take a Rebel list without it.

the questions are, do the designers feel that the Rebels Faction is that far behind the other two factions to need this "crutch" or was it poorly designed and how will they design around it for the future?

Edited by buckero0

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17 hours ago, Kalandros said:

Huh? Pummel is 1 point, Strength in Numbers is 1 point... where is the link between those cards and Negation?

Assuming you meant Comm Disruption - kill the opponent's spy and you're safe anyway, he now has 2 negates instead of a proper comm disrupt

He was talking about Take Initiative. If Negation was played in round 1 to cancel RG, SC is free to play Take Init without consequences. The combo he was mentioning was activating Ezra start of round 2, playing Pummel for 2 attacks, Strength in Numbers to activate another figure and exhaust to give Ezra a third attack. I actually pulled off something like this yesterday against IG.

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