Shedding Chains

[gibbro 5]

When you get chains during a game, do you always shed a chain during the draw phase even if you can't draw cards due to having too many cards in hand?

[Amanal 2,529]

Page 8: "Each time (including during setup) a player with one or more chains would draw one or more cards to refill their hand, that player draws fewer cards (based on their current chain level, see below) and then sheds one chain by reducing their chain tracker by one."

There has been some discussion about various words here and there.

I think the basic idea is that unless you are affected by the chain you won't remove it, so if you have 8 chains, and have 5 cards you will not have drawn fewer cards based on your current chain level, so you wouldn't remove a chain. If you drew up to 4 you would remove the chain.

[dirtmuncher 18]

3 hours ago, Amanal said:

Page 8: "Each time (including during setup) a player with one or more chains would draw one or more cards to refill their hand, that player draws fewer cards (based on their current chain level, see below) and then sheds one chain by reducing their chain tracker by one."

There has been some discussion about various words here and there.

I think the basic idea is that  unless you are affected by the chain you won't remove it, so if you have 8 chains, and have 5 cards you will not have drawn fewer cards based on your current chain level, so you wouldn't remove a chain. If you drew up to 4 you would remove the chain.

My interpretation is that you would remove a chain in the above situation. Because a player always would draws back up to six. With 8 chains he would draw 1-2 =-1 cards and then the do as much as you can rule kicks in.

Your interpretation needs another rule. If someone with 8 chains would be at 4 he wouldn't draw cards, because -2 from chains. But we're in the rules does it say that he doesn't draw cards/ refills his hand because he has -2 from chains? 

Edited August 31, 2018 by dirtmuncher

[Palpster 346]

On 8/31/2018 at 5:07 AM, Amanal said:

Page 8: "Each time (including during setup) a player with one or more chains would draw one or more cards to refill their hand, that player draws fewer cards (based on their current chain level, see below) and then sheds one chain by reducing their chain tracker by one."

There has been some discussion about various words here and there.

I think the basic idea is that unless you are affected by the chain you won't remove it, so if you have 8 chains, and have 5 cards you will not have drawn fewer cards based on your current chain level, so you wouldn't remove a chain. If you drew up to 4 you would remove the chain.

In your example you ARE affected by the chain, since if you weren't you would draw up to 6.

[ArchonsOfIndy 8]

The effect has to do with would you normally draw cards, if so then take the chain penalty and then shed a chain.  [Scenario:  you are on 2 chains for -1 draw]  So if you already have 6 cards, then you would not normally draw, therefore, you do not shed any chains.  If you have 5 cards, you would normally draw 1 card, but the chain penalty kicks in and you draw -1 cards (0 cards drawn) and shed a chain. (down to 1 chain).  If you have 4 cards, you would normally draw 2 cards, but the chain penalty kicks in and you draw -1 cards ( 1 card drawn) and you shed a chain. (down to 1 chain).

[ozmodon 528]

4 hours ago, BountyIndy said:

The effect has to do with would you normally draw cards, if so then take the chain penalty and then shed a chain.  [Scenario:  you are on 2 chains for -1 draw]  So if you already have 6 cards, then you would not normally draw, therefore, you do not shed any chains.  If you have 5 cards, you would normally draw 1 card, but the chain penalty kicks in and you draw -1 cards (0 cards drawn) and shed a chain. (down to 1 chain).  If you have 4 cards, you would normally draw 2 cards, but the chain penalty kicks in and you draw -1 cards ( 1 card drawn) and you shed a chain. (down to 1 chain).

I agree!  Say you have 5 cards in hand when it comes to the draw card step  an you have 4 chains (IE only allowed 5 cards). Because you didn't  draw one or more cards in this step you didn't  meet the requirements for losing chains. 

[Palpster 346]

16 minutes ago, ozmodon said:

I agree!  Say you have 5 cards in hand when it comes to the draw card step  an you have 4 chains (IE only allowed 5 cards). Because you didn't  draw one or more cards in this step you didn't  meet the requirements for losing chains. 

Uhm...that’s not what they said in the post you’re agreeing with

[ozmodon 528]

7 minutes ago, Palpster said:

Uhm...that’s not what they said in the post you’re agreeing with

I'm agreeing with the first part. They contradict.   If you cannot draw, you cannot lose any chains.

[dirtmuncher 18]

6 hours ago, ozmodon said:

I'm agreeing with the first part. They contradict.   If you cannot draw, you cannot lose any chains.

But you do draw cards. You always draw cards and than the amount is reduced based on the number of chains and you shed a chain.

It doesn't say that you shed no chains if the number of cards that you may draw during the refill step is reduced to zero.

[ozmodon 528]

2 hours ago, dirtmuncher said:

But you do draw cards. You always draw cards and than the amount is reduced based on the number of chains and you shed a chain.

It doesn't say that you shed no chains if the number of cards that you may draw during the refill step is reduced to zero.

Zero does not trigger remove chains  drawing one or more does. This is straight up black and white.

[Palpster 346]

It doesn’t say whenever you draw cards, it says whenever you WOULD draw cards. When you are lower than 6 you would draw cards, so you loose a chain even if you don’t get to draw a card because of them.

[ozmodon 528]

3 hours ago, Palpster said:

It doesn’t say whenever you draw cards, it says whenever you WOULD draw cards. When you are lower than 6 you would draw cards, so you loose a chain even if you don’t get to draw a card because of them.

Good luck with that

[Ishi Tonu 2,827]

Good luck playing the game by the rules?

WTAF?

It's really not that difficult.  

 

Edited September 3, 2018 by Ishi Tonu

[Amanal 2,529]

4 hours ago, Ishi Tonu said:

Good luck playing the game by the rules?

Rules or otherwise I always need luck. I'll also, take it wherever I can get it, thanks.

[gibbro 5]

So if I have say 7 chains, and only 1 card in hand, during the draw phase I would normally draw 5 cards.  I draw 3 cards and don't draw the other 2 because of the chains.  Do I shed 1 chain for each card I didn't draw or 1 chain total? 

Similarly, if I have 7 chains, and have 4 cards in hand.  Normally I would draw 2 cards.  I draw none because of the chains.  How many chains do I shed?

Lastly, if 1 have 7 chains, and have 5 cards in hand. Normally I would draw 1 card.  I draw none because of the chains.  How many chains do I shed?

Just trying to get a handle on different chain rules.  I'm not a fan of the wording used in the rule book and own a Dis deck with Chain causing abilities.

 

[dbmeboy 805]

16 minutes ago, gibbro said:

So if I have say 7 chains, and only 1 card in hand, during the draw phase I would normally draw 5 cards.  I draw 3 cards and don't draw the other 2 because of the chains.  Do I shed 1 chain for each card I didn't draw or 1 chain total? 

Similarly, if I have 7 chains, and have 4 cards in hand.  Normally I would draw 2 cards.  I draw none because of the chains.  How many chains do I shed?

Lastly, if 1 have 7 chains, and have 5 cards in hand. Normally I would draw 1 card.  I draw none because of the chains.  How many chains do I shed?

Just trying to get a handle on different chain rules.  I'm not a fan of the wording used in the rule book and own a Dis deck with Chain causing abilities.

 

Shed 1 chain in each of those instances.

[Palpster 346]

agreed, shed 1 in each case

[ArchonsOfIndy 8]

you can only shed 1 chain a turn

[LinkN 3]

I agree that, if you were at 5 or fewer cards, the rules are pretty clear: you would draw cards, but the number you draw to is affected by the chain.  Even if that means you no longer draw cards, you still "attempted" to draw, so you lose a chain.

What I'm not so sure on is what happens if you have 6 or more cards in hand at the end of the turn.  It sounds like you wouldn't normally draw cards at that point, because you have a full hand already, so you don't lose a chain.  I'm willing to agree that that could mean you don't lose a chain, since the chains didn't affect you that turn.

[Palpster 346]

On 9/1/2018 at 11:29 AM, Palpster said:

Page 8: "Each time (including during setup) a player with one or more chains would draw one or more cards to refill their hand, that player draws fewer cards (based on their current chain level, see below) and then sheds one chain by reducing their chain tracker by one."

You only shed a chain when you would draw one or more cards, so I agree that if you are at your handsize (typically 6, but there are exceptions, like when you have a Mother in play or your opponent has a Succubus in play) you do not shed a chain since you wouldn't draw one or more cards.

[twinstarbmc 717]

On 8/30/2018 at 11:07 PM, Amanal said:

Page 8: "Each time (including during setup) a player with one or more chains would draw one or more cards to refill their hand, that player draws fewer cards (based on their current chain level, see below) and then sheds one chain by reducing their chain tracker by one."

 

If I didn't have Chains, would I have drawn a card?

• Yes - Then I'll draw as many cards as I can, and reduce my Chain.
• No - Then I won't do anything.

[Ishi Tonu 2,827]

On ‎9‎/‎4‎/‎2018 at 10:49 AM, BountyIndy said:

you can only shed 1 chain a turn

That's not exactly what the rule says.

Page 8: "Each time (including during setup) a player with one or more chains would draw one or more cards to refill their hand, that player draws fewer cards (based on their current chain level, see below) and then sheds one chain by reducing their chain tracker by one."

So let's say I start a game handicapped with a 4 chain penalty (-1 card).  I start the game by drawing one card less, up to 5 (6 if first player), and immediately shed a chain.  I decide to mulligan drawing to either 4 or 5 depending on who went first, and again I did not draw up to my max so I shed another chain.  Then I play a card(s), at the end of the turn, I draw up (minus chain penalty) and shed another chain.........having shed three chains that turn.

Or did I miss a rule somewhere that caps the number of chains you can shed in a turn? Please point out what my old eyes have missed.

Assuming the above is correct, the only question I would have for shedding chains would be if I can shed them via normal draw effect from cards. 

Let's say I'm at 2 chains (-1 card penalty)  I have 5 cards in hand to start my turn, I play something from hand that draws two or more cards.  Since I would be refilling up to my normal max handsize with this play, would I draw one less and shed a chain here too?

It seems like they were trying to make some distinction between "refilling" only happening in the draw phase, but, the language used in other parts of the rules document never makes the distinction that I can find.  With the rule saying " Each time (including during setup) " makes me take think that if I ever draw up to max with chains then I would shed one and draw less as there isn't anything that I can find that tells us what refill specifically means, and when it can occur.

[Necronson 52]

Wouldn't be a ffg production if the rules was actually clear and didn't need an extensive FAQ section.  ?

[Ishi Tonu 2,827]

31 minutes ago, Necronson said:

Wouldn't be a ffg production if the rules was actually clear and didn't need an extensive FAQ section.  ?

That's part of the fun, the player interaction.............right?  lol

[Xelto 422]

3 hours ago, Ishi Tonu said:

So let's say I start a game handicapped with a 4 chain penalty (-1 card).  I start the game by drawing one card less, up to 5 (6 if first player), and immediately shed a chain.  I decide to mulligan drawing to either 4 or 5 depending on who went first, and again I did not draw up to my max so I shed another chain. 

I'm not sure that redrawing is going to count as drawing for the purpose of chains. I suspect this is going to end up in the errata/FAQ if people try it. 

And if, somehow, it does activate the chains, you're going to end up with 3 or 4 cards, depending on whether you're first player or not (down two cards for the chains, and one for the mulligan).

Edited September 8, 2018 by Xelto