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NeverBetTheFett

Death Troopers. Thoughts so far?

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So, I'm off to Montreal for a Store Championship in a few weeks (hope to see some of you there in Canada's best city). I'm debating whether I want to bring Death Troopers or not. What are people's experiences with them so far? I think the elites with their ability to give out tokens (squad captain) could be good, but can they hit hard enough? Yes, their field tactics is a nifty trick, but does it justify their cost?

Can someone sell me on these guys? 

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2 hours ago, NeverBetTheFett said:

I think the elites with their ability to give out tokens (squad captain) could be good, but can they hit hard enough? Yes, their field tactics is a nifty trick, but does it justify their cost?

Can someone sell me on these guys? 

eDTs hit poorly, the damage rateo is small and heavilly dependant on dice rolls, RY do have odd roll combos:
Without any token, you can either deal 1 or no damage at all or 3 damage;
With a damage token, the difference is small, you have some more chances to deal 1 or 2 damage, but chances to deal more than 4 damage are really really low;
With a surge token, the difference is huge: The minimum damage i dealt with a surge token against a black die is 3, up to 5 if you max roll.
If you ask my opinion, i think that they don't hit hard enough.
Squad Captain is a good ability, but the best ability is field tactics which makes you go for some nasty tricks.
If you wanna run eRiots, they can be worth a try to give riots surge tokens, otherwise i'd suggest to save one point and run rDT instead

Edited by erlucius90

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10 minutes ago, erlucius90 said:

Squad Captain is a good ability, but the best ability is field tactics which makes you go for some nasty tricks.
If you wanna run eRiots, they can be worth a try to give riots surge tokens, otherwise i'd suggest to save one point and run rDT instead

I feel like the "nasty tricks" is overrated. I don't have any evidence of that yet, but I just don't see it. So, I think it still remains to be seen. I'm definitely hoping you're right because they look cool. 

As for the e-riots, I've never put through zero damage in about 12 or more straight games. In fact, getting 1 damage through was still great because they take strain and are weakened. 

I'll give the r-riots a try like you suggest and see if they're more worth it. 

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6 minutes ago, NeverBetTheFett said:

I feel like the "nasty tricks" is overrated. I don't have any evidence of that yet, but I just don't see it. So, I think it still remains to be seen. I'm definitely hoping you're right because they look cool. 

As for the e-riots, I've never put through zero damage in about 12 or more straight games. In fact, getting 1 damage through was still great because they take strain and are weakened. 

I'll give the r-riots a try like you suggest and see if they're more worth it. 

Nah, eRiots are good, and they benefit so much from surge tokens from eDTs. (never said anything about rRiots)
rDTs are good to contest, plus an immediate block token is always good.
Field Tactics is good, you can chain damage from 2 figures onto 1 miniature and can mean a lot. Strength in Numbers makes that chain up to 3 activations in a row (4 with Squad Swarm aswell), there's much potential in that.

Edited by erlucius90

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26 minutes ago, erlucius90 said:

eDTs hit poorly, the damage ratio is small and heavily dependant on dice rolls, RY do have odd roll combos:
Without any token, you can either deal 1 or no damage at all or 3 damage;

I don't see how this can be anything but coincidence or heresay.

Average  damage on a red die is 2.2 Yellow has 66% chance of getting at least 1 surge or 1 damage and 50% chance of both or double.  With a surge token (which you should always take with them and which Thrawn helps to throw out (these guys are very dependant on them)) against a black die the average damage is 4 from 6+ spaces away. That is not bad, in fact it is pretty good. The question is can the eDT reliably get a shot off and stay far enough away to stay alive (7 health), when compounding, can you afford in your list more than 1 (I usually can afford 1 or elite and 1 of regular) and can you get them the surge token they probably need to use both abilities. 

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2 minutes ago, buckero0 said:

I don't see how this can be anything but coincidence or heresay.

Average  damage on a red die is 2.2 Yellow has 66% chance of getting at least 1 surge or 1 damage and 50% chance of both or double.  With a surge token (which you should always take with them and which Thrawn helps to throw out (these guys are very dependant on them)) against a black die the average damage is 4 from 6+ spaces away. That is not bad, in fact it is pretty good. The question is can the eDT reliably get a shot off and stay far enough away to stay alive (7 health), when compounding, can you afford in your list more than 1 (I usually can afford 1 or elite and 1 of regular) and can you get them the surge token they probably need to use both abilities. 

I'm not telling you what are their statistics, i'm telling you how much they dealt during all the games i played with them already.
Statistics tell you have a 64% chance to deal 3 damage to a black die with a normal attack, that means 36% to deal less (and 36% with 2 dice only is quite massive chance if you consider you won't even reroll), plus the chances to deal 1 damage are 96%, not 100, in facts i managed to deal no damage at all. That's no coincidence nor heresay, it's stats i wanted to share after playing many games.
e-Jets are way better at hitting, and e-Riots from statistics are similar to them (a very lil fewer), but with reroll capacity and strain+weaken, they are dfinitely better than DTs.

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4 minutes ago, erlucius90 said:

I'm not telling you what are their statistics, i'm telling you how much they dealt during all the games i played with them already.
Statistics tell you have a 64% chance to deal 3 damage to a black die with a normal attack, that means 36% to deal less (and 36% with 2 dice only is quite massive chance if you consider you won't even reroll), plus the chances to deal 1 damage are 96%, not 100, in facts i managed to deal no damage at all. That's no coincidence nor heresay, it's stats i wanted to share after playing many games.
e-Jets are way better at hitting, and e-Riots from statistics are similar to them (a very lil fewer), but with reroll capacity and strain+weaken, they are dfinitely better than DTs.

eRiots and eDTs play very differently (or feel like they should be played differently) 6+ range vs melee.  I would agree that the present map rotation may benefit the riots a bit, but that may swing quite a bit as well. The new lothal map is really big compared to the Jawa map and has plenty of nooks and crannies. eJets are unquestionably the best trooper unit in the game and easily the top 2 or 3 deployments in the Imperial force.  I would argue that every competitive Imperial list starts with 2 ejets. I don't think the comparison is fair.

at the OP (Fett) frankly i don't know that anyone has had enough experience to "fit" the eDT into a list or figure out how to use them effectively. I like the eRiots and won a store champs with them so I'm not doggin them, I'm just saying everyone said the riots were horrible when they first came out and then people learned to use them or how to fit them in a list.  I think the eDT and regDT have a place, that "list" or place just hasn't been figured out yet.

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57 minutes ago, erlucius90 said:

Nah, eRiots are good, and they benefit so much from surge tokens from eDTs. (never said anything about rRiots)
rDTs are good to contest, plus an immediate block token is always good.
Field Tactics is good, you can chain damage from 2 figures onto 1 miniature and can mean a lot. Strength in Numbers makes that chain up to 3 activations in a row (4 with Squad Swarm aswell), there's much potential in that.

Yes! I misread that. You did say rDTs not riots. Doh!

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11 minutes ago, buckero0 said:

at the OP (Fett) frankly i don't know that anyone has had enough experience to "fit" the eDT into a list or figure out how to use them effectively. I like the eRiots and won a store champs with them so I'm not doggin them, I'm just saying everyone said the riots were horrible when they first came out and then people learned to use them or how to fit them in a list.  I think the eDT and regDT have a place, that "list" or place just hasn't been figured out yet.

Agreed. I steered clear when the riots first came out. Then I realized they match my style, which is not pretty. They work well in this meta, and the brawler cards are pretty good for them I find. 

 

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It seems like they really need the damage or surge token (either from other eDTS or from Thrawn especially). With concentrated fire you could have a pretty nasty attack, I think the power to chain is what makes them to strong- an eDT into a Thrawn attack followed by strength in numbers could easily finish off some beefy units without your opponent being to retaliate. Seems like they could combo well with riots by dishing them some surge tokens to get off that +2 surge or +1 damage if you roll excess surges. But the other big part they bring is activation economy. If you love brawlers though, you may have to ask what's better in your list: eDTS or 000. I would say usually eDTS for trait synergy right now.

Comparing them to elite Jets (same at 4 cost), EDTs only have a 37% to do 4 vs a black die, eJets have 54%. But if we add a surge token the eDTS surge up to 68% to do 4 damage. So if you have Thrawn or another eDT, i would say the eDTs hit harder than eJets without having to risk being as up close and sacrificing safe positioning. 

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In theory, that chain of activations sounds great. eDT, 6 point unit, Strength in Numbers, eDT, 6 point unit.

If only there were any good 6 points leaders or especially troopers to use that way...

With Doubt and Ambush, it's possible that we see less figures, that are support only (like 3PO), and more figures, that can do some harm themselves and support (like Hera, Ko-Tun or the eDT).

Nevertheless, on a scale from eJet to eRiot, or from eRanger to eWeequay, I don't really see the eDTs ...

Edited by DerBaer

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For some real craziness:

Activate rDT.. move shoot -> Field tactics eDT

Activate eDT.. move shoot -> Squad swarm

Activate rDT.. move shoot -> field tactics eDT

Activate eDT.. move shoot -> Strength in numbers -> eJets

Activate eJets 1 and 2.

6 figures to go in one round before retaliation.  Granted you need both cards in hand but not unheard of.  Throw in Call of the Vanguard before the round starts or a nice grenade... nasty nasty.

Can have a list something like this

  • Vader
  • eJets
  • 2x eDT
  • 2x rDTs
  • 2x rOfficer
  • Zillow
  • Doubt
  • Driven by hatred.

Haven't tested but it is fun in theory to align the stars and get that combo off.

 

-Roquefert

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2 hours ago, Roquefert said:

For some real craziness:

Activate rDT.. move shoot -> Field tactics eDT 

Activate eDT.. move shoot -> Squad swarm 

Activate rDT.. move shoot -> field tactics eDT 

Activate eDT.. move shoot -> Strength in numbers -> eJets 

Activate eJets 1 and 2. 

Dodge, dodge, dodge, dodge x2, dodge x2. 

Love, Greedo. :)

Edited by NeverBetTheFett

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1 hour ago, buckero0 said:

my Greedo always rolls a blank, he's always parting shots

Trust me. As I was typing my "dodge" joke, I thought...ya right. But yes the best part of Greedo is that he's almost always getting to shoot someone. Especially if it's to kill a different figure and not the one who shot him! 

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frankly both Versions are quite weak, They don't do anything better than eJets and taking 2 will cost more than a group of jets, Guardian is also not very good. I really want them to be good but for objective control rRiots are better and for decent attacks eJets are better. Maybe if the Empire had ok choices at the 6 cost besides Thrawn

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10 minutes ago, Darth evil said:

frankly both Versions are quite weak, They don't do anything better than eJets and taking 2 will cost more than a group of jets, Guardian is also not very good. I really want them to be good but for objective control rRiots are better and for decent attacks eJets are better. Maybe if the Empire had ok choices at the 6 cost besides Thrawn

There's Blaise, i was hoping with Thrawn's command card shenanigans and Blaise together you could dump a third of the opponents command cards at least. Sentries are 6 and dewbacks are 5 but they aren't super good. Riots are the best 5 pt right now. I wish elite ISB were 6 pts

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1 hour ago, buckero0 said:

There's Blaise, i was hoping with Thrawn's command card shenanigans and Blaise together you could dump a third of the opponents command cards at least. Sentries are 6 and dewbacks are 5 but they aren't super good. Riots are the best 5 pt right now. I wish elite ISB were 6 pts

the problem with Blaise is on Uscru you lose a turn to use Interrogate

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What about pairing eDT with eHeavy Stormtroopers to give out surges to the Heavies?

There was a winning strategy like this using Blaise to hide them for a while but eDT's are more reliable giving Surge Power Tokens than Blaise ability to hide Troopers. Heavies have 2 good surges (2 dmg & Blast 2) and but low chance to roll them off of Blue Red attack.

Edited by nickv2002

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2 hours ago, nickv2002 said:

What about pairing eDT with eHeavy Stormtroopers to give out surges to the Heavies?

There was a winning strategy like this using Blaise to hide them for a while but eDT's are more reliable giving Surge Power Tokens than Blaise ability to hide Troopers. Heavies have 2 good surges (2 dmg & Blast 2) and but low chance to roll them off of Blue Red attack.

eHeavies are 8 points meaning the eDT's can't take advantage of field tactics

 

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3 minutes ago, Darth evil said:

eHeavies are 8 points meaning the eDT's can't take advantage of field tactics

Yeah I know. It's kind of a nonbo, but there's still plenty of room in your list for other Troopers & Leaders. I was surprised heavies didn't get a mention here already.

To be clear: I'm not saying this is a tier 1 strategy but I think it's one of the best uses of the power tokens eDTs hand out. Blast 2 is really good (so good they had to take it off the Rebel Sabs).

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