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ThinkingB

2.0: As a rebel player, can I do anything to Jendon Bombers? (besides cry)

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I cannot beat this list with anything in rebels so far. I've tried using just about every ship in the faction and I can't seem to take out much more than a bomber if I'm lucky. I'm not having this same issue with a lot of the other imperial lists out there at the moment, just this particular combination of Jendon's ability and a pack of loaded bombers. What have people been using to take down similar lists?

Colonel Jendon

+

Major Ryhmer 

Advanced Proton Torpedo

- Homing Missiles

+

Scimitar Squadron Pilot

Advanced Proton Torpedo

- Homing Missiles

+

Scimitar Squadron Pilot

Advanced Proton Torpedo

- Homing Missiles

+

Scimitar Squadron Pilot

Advanced Proton Torpedo

- Homing Missiles

__________________________________________

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Bombers are strong right now, but you should be able to beat it. Make sure you're not jousting it unless you can actually win the joust (you probably can't).

Things that might work well against it:

- supernatural Luke (he should never eat an APT, however the homing missiles will hurt)

- anything that throws out crits well (proton torps)  - bombers hate crits

- High initiative alphas - if you can take one of the bombers (especially Rhymer) off the board before it shoots, you're in a much better place

- Fat turrets - just don't get hit by APTs. You don't care about the 1 damage from homing missiles.

 

Other things:

- make sure you know your math on when to take the 1 damage vs homing vs taking the 4 dice attack. 

- if he uses Jendon to get locks early, be ready to run or bump/block with the ship he locks - if he doesn't have arc and range on the ship he has locked, his ships hit like a wet pool noodle.

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List composition, deployment, flying, choice of action, etc. There are a lot of variables that could affect your chance of winning. Need more specifics on what/how you flew, as just pasting a list that has beaten that squad won't help.

But the best advice I can give is:

join_the_empire_by_mattalawson-d5fxewz.p

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My first question would be, in what context are you playing and facing this?

  • Casual games with friends/locals
  • "Test" games to see what you'll be facing in local tournaments
  • Prepping for one of the non-FFG events coming up (Crossroads Classic, Gold Squadron Classic, Mynock Open)

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Kinda cheating, because knowing precisely what the opponent's list is before you even start building your own is a big advantage. But when I see that bomber list, the first thing I think of is FLANKERS.

Wedge Antilles — X-Wing 52
Marksmanship 1
Proton Torpedoes 9
Servomotor S-Foils 0
Ship Total: 62
   
Thane Kyrell — X-Wing 48
Marksmanship 1
Servomotor S-Foils 0
Ship Total: 49
   
Arvel Crynyd — A-Wing 36
Intimidation 3
Ship Total: 39
   
Jake Farrell — A-Wing 40
Marksmanship 1
Proton Rockets 7
Ship Total: 48

 

Give your opponent first player and all your ships move last (except Arvel, who moves before Rhymer, but the bombers will have broadcast their intentions by the time he moves). Wedge is the world's most obvious target, so the enemy list will almost certainly mass lock him. Slow roll your X-wings and use your initiative advantage to keep them out of range while your A-wings flank. If your opponent turns his attention to the A-wings, your much more dangerous X's can now swoop in to wreak murder. Marksmanship would not be the talent of choice generally speaking, but it synergizes with proton rockets and also makes bombers you catch in your bullseye arc very very sad.

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30 minutes ago, ThinkingB said:

I cannot beat this list with anything in rebels so far. I've tried using just about every ship in the faction and I can't seem to take out much more than a bomber if I'm lucky. I'm not having this same issue with a lot of the other imperial lists out there at the moment, just this particular combination of Jendon's ability and a pack of loaded bombers. What have people been using to take down similar lists?

Colonel Jendon

+

Major Ryhmer 

Advanced Proton Torpedo

- Homing Missiles

+

Scimitar Squadron Pilot

Advanced Proton Torpedo

- Homing Missiles

+

Scimitar Squadron Pilot

Advanced Proton Torpedo

- Homing Missiles

+

Scimitar Squadron Pilot

Advanced Proton Torpedo

- Homing Missiles

__________________________________________

Count yourself lucky this player doesnt have barrage missiles or Sloane crew on Jendon, and doesnt have Jonus.

In this case, he has to attack the ship he got locked. So practice your distance and keep him out of range. Spread your ships so you know exactly who he is going after. Take that locked ship to a place his bombers don't want to go (asteroid field) and see if he follows. Place rocks diagonally across the board and bring the bombers to you. Force him to split, bump, or have bad angles. Attack him at 45 degree angles. This makes him have to bank on the engagement round. In a common box formation, this turns his formation into a diamond now (1-2-1 formation) and try to get the rear ships to be out of range.

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3 minutes ago, Kaptin Krunch said:

"I flew my **** directly into the firing arcs of init 2 ships that can't reposition or K-turn or be blocked if they want their shots to matter and died.

There was nothing I could do, the list must be unbeatable."

PS2 small base firing arcs that need actions to be relevant and chain themselves to a ship at range 0-1

Unbeatable 

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This is fundamental learn to play X-Wing territory

  • The matchup is absolutely not about what list you choose to use against it, even though that might appear to be the problem at first

  • If it is your list that is the problem...that list is probably going to struggle against many many other things and opponents in 2nd edition, not just bombers

  • Your Opponent has some ships

  • You Have some ships

  • Typically the player that spends more time taking shots from all of their opponents ships will lose the game

  • Because the scimitars are such low initiative you basically always get to decide how many shots you want to let them take at any given time

  • If you choose to let them shoot you, you will lose

  • If you choose to not let them shoot you, you will win

  • They will lock one of your ships at the start...use that to your advantage and make sure you at least trade that locked ship for some of their points when the shooting starts

  • If you try to avoid being in all of their arcs and still end up in all of their arcs then you got out played. 

  • Its not your list.

  • Its not their list. 

  • Its an actual game of X-Wing.

  • This is 100% what it looks like.  

Happy to discuss any specific questions besides "what list beats this?" that you might have on how to fight Tie Bombers. 

Edited by Boom Owl

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34 minutes ago, RStan said:

What lists have you been using? Have you just been jousting it? Have you tried flanking with one or more of your ships? 

So far, I've tried Hera + Wedge + AP-5, Double Aces (Fat Luke and Fat Corran), Triple Aces, Luke + Lando, Hera+ Benthic + AP-5, and a few different Dutch + Torp Boat type lists. I have not tried out new YT2400 yet, so maybe that's the key.

The main issue that I have with engaging is that it seems like this bomber list can easily counteract what I throw at it. For example, when I try to flank, they usually will go wide like a net, Jendon TL onto the flanker, and then just slow roll until they catch it and do super damage. If I joust, I basically lose the game in the first engagement if I dont kill a bomber (harder than it seems with 6 health and 2 evades)

I think I just really need something meaty to occupy their time while I flank, but I dont think rebels have something like that for the right price.

I've been thinking of Flying Corran or Luke as 100ish points and then run a Dutch w/ Torps + another Y w/Torps up the center. At the very least, they could be a distraction, but I dont know for how long with the bombers basically erasing the Y Wings if I end up at range 1.

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6 minutes ago, Kaptin Krunch said:

"I flew my **** directly into the firing arcs of init 2 ships that can't reposition or K-turn or be blocked if they want their shots to matter and died.

There was nothing I could do, the list must be unbeatable."

 

2 minutes ago, Chumbalaya said:

PS2 small base firing arcs that need actions to be relevant and chain themselves to a ship at range 0-1

Unbeatable 

"I really don't want to contribute.  I'd rather point and laugh based on assumptions with no context."

I mean, if people choose to listen to the podcasts and be heckled, that's on them.  But, is this who you guys are?  I'd hope not.

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2 minutes ago, gennataos said:

 

"I really don't want to contribute.  I'd rather point and laugh based on assumptions with no context."

I mean, if people choose to listen to the podcasts and be heckled, that's on them.  But, is this who you guys are?  I'd hope not.

Everyone get's turbo aggressive in the morning when the coffee kicks in, but the "I have to behave like an adult" part of waking up hasn't.

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9 minutes ago, ThinkingB said:

So far, I've tried Hera + Wedge + AP-5, Double Aces (Fat Luke and Fat Corran), Triple Aces, Luke + Lando, Hera+ Benthic + AP-5, and a few different Dutch + Torp Boat type lists. I have not tried out new YT2400 yet, so maybe that's the key.

The main issue that I have with engaging is that it seems like this bomber list can easily counteract what I throw at it. For example, when I try to flank, they usually will go wide like a net, Jendon TL onto the flanker, and then just slow roll until they catch it and do super damage. If I joust, I basically lose the game in the first engagement if I dont kill a bomber (harder than it seems with 6 health and 2 evades)

I think I just really need something meaty to occupy their time while I flank, but I dont think rebels have something like that for the right price.

I've been thinking of Flying Corran or Luke as 100ish points and then run a Dutch w/ Torps + another Y w/Torps up the center. At the very least, they could be a distraction, but I dont know for how long with the bombers basically erasing the Y Wings if I end up at range 1.

I think you're on the right track with "something meaty" to draw fire while you flank.  A U-wing that just slams into their line isn't a horrible idea.  Neither is an ARC 170, though it's lower Agility may be an issue, but they can be a lot of fun.  I've mentioned a few times now that balanced lists seem to be what 2.0 is designed for.  The heavy jousting bomber list hits hard, but once you hurt them they're in trouble if you can outmaneuver them for the rest of the game.  They're a quarter mile at a time drag car, but the game has become more of a rally race: do a lot of things, adapt, be ready for dangerous curves.

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33 minutes ago, nexttwelveexits said:

Kinda cheating, because knowing precisely what the opponent's list is before you even start building your own is a big advantage. But when I see that bomber list, the first thing I think of is FLANKERS.

Wedge Antilles — X-Wing 52
Marksmanship 1
Proton Torpedoes 9
Servomotor S-Foils 0
Ship Total: 62
   
Thane Kyrell — X-Wing 48
Marksmanship 1
Servomotor S-Foils 0
Ship Total: 49
   
Arvel Crynyd — A-Wing 36
Intimidation 3
Ship Total: 39
   
Jake Farrell — A-Wing 40
Marksmanship 1
Proton Rockets 7
Ship Total: 48

 

I made almost this exact list in response to this post. This is the one. It’ll walk all over it, even in a joust.

You can also drop the torps off Wedge and bump Jake to any i3+ x wing.

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What happens if you draw them through the obstacles? Not every ship can do this, but A-wings with Vectored Thrusters can navigate well. For that matter, X-wings when S-foils closed can work with this tactic.

Another thought: K-wings. If you make them chase you, you can drop bombs and try to maneuver so that few ships can keep you in range as they chase. If they do catch you in arc, you bug out with SLAM.

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...I am confuse. Their only non primary shots that aren't range 1 are homing missiles (outside of Rhymer increasing his range on an Advanced Torp). So if you Joust at range 2, you take the 1 hit from Rhymer and all other bombers just do a single point of damage. How do you not win that joust? At range 3 it's even worse because Rhymer can't even Advanced Torp you, so you take a whole 4 damage. This list has incredibly slow damage at anything but R1 outside of Rhymer himself who should focus fired early. All you have to do to beat this list is control the initial joust.

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11 minutes ago, gennataos said:

 

"I really don't want to contribute.  I'd rather point and laugh based on assumptions with no context."

I mean, if people choose to listen to the podcasts and be heckled, that's on them.  But, is this who you guys are?  I'd hope not.

The forums exist for 2 reasons

To hold the glory of the Krayt thread

To produce whining to laugh at.

Let me spoonfeed you and OP a bit then if you are willing to learn.

You see those torps? They will lock someone via Jendon turn 1.

Don't ******' fly what they lock straight at them. Have that **** take the long way around- And I don't mean "do a 4 straight before it turns in near some rocks"- I mean get behind them when you start to turn in. They will have to either use their terrible primary weapons, switch targets, or commit their list into chasing something across the board.

****, it's better if *Everyone* in your list takes the long way around. It's not like this list can chase you effectively. They are bombers. 

Then, learn to count to 11 for the rule of 11- This 4 bomber list isn't even the good version of the list- I would expect Sloane on Jendon, Jonus over Busta Rhymer, and more UGR and less APT so they can't just bail with whatever gets locked. But rule of 11 is important for fighting vs the good versions of this list (Protons or UGR)

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16 minutes ago, ThinkingB said:

So far, I've tried Hera + Wedge + AP-5, Double Aces (Fat Luke and Fat Corran), Triple Aces, Luke + Lando, Hera+ Benthic + AP-5, and a few different Dutch + Torp Boat type lists. I have not tried out new YT2400 yet, so maybe that's the key.

The main issue that I have with engaging is that it seems like this bomber list can easily counteract what I throw at it. For example, when I try to flank, they usually will go wide like a net, Jendon TL onto the flanker, and then just slow roll until they catch it and do super damage. If I joust, I basically lose the game in the first engagement if I dont kill a bomber (harder than it seems with 6 health and 2 evades)

I think I just really need something meaty to occupy their time while I flank, but I dont think rebels have something like that for the right price.

I've been thinking of Flying Corran or Luke as 100ish points and then run a Dutch w/ Torps + another Y w/Torps up the center. At the very least, they could be a distraction, but I dont know for how long with the bombers basically erasing the Y Wings if I end up at range 1.

 

1 minute ago, Bad Idea Comics said:

I think you're on the right track with "something meaty" to draw fire while you flank.  A U-wing that just slams into their line isn't a horrible idea.  Neither is an ARC 170, though it's lower Agility may be an issue, but they can be a lot of fun.  I've mentioned a few times now that balanced lists seem to be what 2.0 is designed for.  The heavy jousting bomber list hits hard, but once you hurt them they're in trouble if you can outmaneuver them for the rest of the game.  They're a quarter mile at a time drag car, but the game has become more of a rally race: do a lot of things, adapt, be ready for dangerous curves.

Yes! I would suggest that a 100 point flanker is not really a flanker anymore; it's half your points and a threat that can't be ignored. Ideally you want to flank with something that is dangerous, but hard to shoot at and ultimately expendable, and A-wings fit the bill perfectly. You want them to turn on your flanker, because if they do the meat of your list is free to crush your enemies, see them driven before you, hear some lamentations etc

 

3 minutes ago, TasteTheRainbow said:

I made almost this exact list in response to this post. This is the one. It’ll walk all over it, even in a joust.

You can also drop the torps off Wedge and bump Jake to any i3+ x wing.

That's a job for Biggs if I've ever heard one. I love protorps against bombers, but I'd think about dropping them to replace Jake with Biggs + R2 and then maybe add a shiny set of homing missiles to Arvel's loadout:

This is a more realistic version of that list, dropping Marksmanship (honestly that's only in there because I know I'm going up against bombers) for more multipurpose talents.

XXX + Flanker (199)

Wedge Antilles — X-Wing 52
Predator 2
Servomotor S-Foils 0
Ship Total: 54
   
Thane Kyrell — X-Wing 48
Trick Shot 1
Servomotor S-Foils 0
Ship Total: 49
   
Biggs Darklighter — X-Wing 48
R2 Astromech 6
Servomotor S-Foils 0
Ship Total: 54
   
Arvel Crynyd — A-Wing 36
Intimidation 3
Homing Missiles 3
Ship Total: 42

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19 minutes ago, ThinkingB said:

So far, I've tried Hera + Wedge + AP-5, Double Aces (Fat Luke and Fat Corran), Triple Aces, Luke + Lando, Hera+ Benthic + AP-5, and a few different Dutch + Torp Boat type lists. I have not tried out new YT2400 yet, so maybe that's the key.

The main issue that I have with engaging is that it seems like this bomber list can easily counteract what I throw at it. For example, when I try to flank, they usually will go wide like a net, Jendon TL onto the flanker, and then just slow roll until they catch it and do super damage. If I joust, I basically lose the game in the first engagement if I dont kill a bomber (harder than it seems with 6 health and 2 evades)

I think I just really need something meaty to occupy their time while I flank, but I dont think rebels have something like that for the right price.

I've been thinking of Flying Corran or Luke as 100ish points and then run a Dutch w/ Torps + another Y w/Torps up the center. At the very least, they could be a distraction, but I dont know for how long with the bombers basically erasing the Y Wings if I end up at range 1.

Sooo...are you just trying to beat a local/friend?  Or are you planning for tournaments?  Like folks posted above, if you're just directly trying to counter the list with no consideration on how your list would perform against other lists, I'm sure you can counter it.  Something like Biggs and a bunch of A-Wings or Z95s with Homing Missiles might even be able to straight up joust it.  With the changes to Simultaneous Fire, Biggs would be able to suck up hits/crits while all ships of a given initiative are active, so he could have died long ago and still eat shots from the I2 bombers.  Turn 0 rocks and bombscould also make things interesting.

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3 minutes ago, Kaptin Krunch said:

The forums exist for 2 reasons

To hold the glory of the Krayt thread

To produce whining to laugh at.

Let me spoonfeed you and OP a bit then if you are willing to learn.

You see those torps? They will lock someone via Jendon turn 1.

Don't ******' fly what they lock straight at them. Have that **** take the long way around- And I don't mean "do a 4 straight before it turns in near some rocks"- I mean get behind them when you start to turn in. They will have to either use their terrible primary weapons, switch targets, or commit their list into chasing something across the board.

****, it's better if *Everyone* in your list takes the long way around. It's not like this list can chase you effectively. They are bombers. 

Then, learn to count to 11 for the rule of 11- This 4 bomber list isn't even the good version of the list- I would expect Sloane on Jendon, Jonus over Busta Rhymer, and more UGR and less APT so they can't just bail with whatever gets locked. But rule of 11 is important for fighting vs the good versions of this list (Protons or UGR)

Trolling a thread isn't going to uphold the glory of anything.  So you think you know the game better, why not either help the guy out or move on?  

You should probably save your condescension for someone else.  I'll be at the Crossroads Classic, if you're interested in condescending to me in person.  

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Wow, not even barrage rockets?. Higher initiative will wipe them out pretty trivially 

Just take the guy target locked by Jendon and be extra careful with him

Use obstacles judiciously. Bombers no longer autolose to asteroids (thank FFG for WHITE. TWO. TURNS) but they ain't exactly the most graceful ships either

Imo, your best bet in any rebel list is Xwings and the moldy crow, simply because boost and mods (Luke, moldy,) 

I haven't tested this particular iteration yet (imo Biggs too good) but proton wedge, proton Luke, and preceptive moldy Kyle all fit in a list

Barring the most bull luck, you're going to alpha a bomber a turn (Kyle wedge for full mods)

And remember, CLOSED SERVOMOTORS DONT AFFECT YOUR TORPS!!!!

Edited by ficklegreendice

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1 hour ago, ThinkingB said:

I cannot beat this list with anything in rebels so far. I've tried using just about every ship in the faction and I can't seem to take out much more than a bomber if I'm lucky. I'm not having this same issue with a lot of the other imperial lists out there at the moment, just this particular combination of Jendon's ability and a pack of loaded bombers. What have people been using to take down similar lists?

Colonel Jendon

+

Major Ryhmer 

Advanced Proton Torpedo

- Homing Missiles

+

Scimitar Squadron Pilot

Advanced Proton Torpedo

- Homing Missiles

+

Scimitar Squadron Pilot

Advanced Proton Torpedo

- Homing Missiles

+

Scimitar Squadron Pilot

Advanced Proton Torpedo

- Homing Missiles

__________________________________________

Just wait till they add Captain Jonus to this list!

 

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In my experience so far, Rebels cannot really do anything against Howl+Iden TIE Swarms or Jendon Bombers.  Both lists are far better at jousting than any Rebel Fighters can muster, and most Rebel jousters make poor flankers.  There are the Y-Turrets and the Falcon... but they are far too inefficient to plink down a competently flown Jendon Bombers or a Howl Swarm before biting it.

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