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warchild1x

XP for Missing Players?

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15 hours ago, Rimsen said:

TBH I play with friends, not random groups or FLGS playdays. So ppl usually know each other and have a different approach.

In my 33 years of play I have played at sit-and-join tables during game conventions, and I have taken on the mantle of GM on many occasions. Often, it has its own rewarding style. Such games rarely devolve into a "Why don't I get as many XP?"discussions, as there will be no next time, generally. Not to say there are no abbrasive, rude gamers at conventions. But those seeking out social gatherings tend to be more... social, than loners hiding out in ther parents' basements, plotting to take over a game world setting. While at the other end of thespectrum, such gamers are there. They exist. I know.

Being invited to game nights because of all that experience, besides visiting game conventions, I also tend to see quite a lot of different players. Some likeable, some loveable, others... not so. In this other thread about an extreme character concept I warned about extremely overbearing players running the game instead of the DM. The moment I spot one of those, I tend not to give them any maneuvering space. They either adopt a social attitude of team play, or they might be asked to find a table more suitable to their personal tastes. Nothing wrong with doing that.

But I understand completely the joys of gaming with friends. The mutual trust because you might know each other for years. The shared interest in a great game as opposed to a great struggle of dominance at the table.

4 hours ago, themensch said:

Now everyone can have 2000 XP!

Yes! We have! 1000 from themensch, another 1000 from Oprah (through Nytwyng). If and when Mark Caliber starts doling out 1000 XP too, we'll reach 3000 in no time! ?

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And @Nytwyng (just editing this because of double post...)

I am glad to see we really got anywhere. "Punishment" is in the eye of the beholder, but indeed, a GM can make or break such experience by careful choice of words. It probably, and often, starts there.

Edited by Xcapobl

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On 9/3/2018 at 7:10 PM, Nytwyng said:

I keep asking, but no one has been able to do it..

Please explain how not receiving XP for a missed session is a "punishment."

I'd hoped to go to a local store's X-Wing 2.0 promo event yesterday, in which their version 1.0 inventory was on sale for 50% off. I didn't get to go. Was not getting ships for half price "punishment?"

At the risk of coming off as the crotchety old guy or even a jerk.  I'd chalk it up to the entitlement mentality that is perceived to be growing in the younger generations.  Didn't win the game, that's ok because everyone gets a prize, etc.  When fairness becomes an overwhelming factor the concept that individual A receiving more than individual B is considered punishing individual B.  It doesn't matter if A worked harder, put in more effort, or even was simply lucky.  A and B must receive the same rewards otherwise it's "not fair".  That's my take on it anyway.

That said, it's a game.  It should all balance out in the end and being a few XP behind won't hurt.  Now, if it's the same person and they're sitting at 250 earned xp while everyone else is at 500, it could cause some game balance issues for the GM so from that point of view I could see the GM catching them up for ease of play on his or her end.

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58 minutes ago, Ahrimon said:

 I'd chalk it up to the entitlement mentality

You know, I have tossed this subject around in my head over and over and I keep coming back to this.  I hate to blame this.  I see that behavior in older people too, and outside our hobby.  Oh Zeitgeist, go away.... 

I picked up some good tools for the ol' toolbox in this thread.  Doesn't look like this particular problem is going to go away. 

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1 hour ago, themensch said:

You know, I have tossed this subject around in my head over and over and I keep coming back to this.  I hate to blame this.  I see that behavior in older people too, and outside our hobby.  Oh Zeitgeist, go away....

Yeah, I've turned away from invoking "entitlement mentality" more than once in this conversation, myself. It just seems too easy to point a finger there and then call it a day. It's a phrase that discourages looking any deeper once it's slapped down. To me, anyway.

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5 hours ago, themensch said:

You know, I have tossed this subject around in my head over and over and I keep coming back to this.  I hate to blame this.  I see that behavior in older people too, and outside our hobby.  Oh Zeitgeist, go away.... 

I picked up some good tools for the ol' toolbox in this thread.  Doesn't look like this particular problem is going to go away. 

Lately this has really come up for me as well. Most of my current players are younger than me by a good amount, and so I started my current campaign with old school ideals presented in session 0. It's interesting to see them adapt, and lately, shine under those conditions. Plus I am having more fun. I think you can come at them with a lot if you are respectful and genuine.

Edited by Archlyte

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2 hours ago, HappyDaze said:

Hey, if the challenges ramp up every session,  then not having a character that rises to meet them can be a fun-killer. Having to softball for characters that have fallen behind gets old quick too. I say this as a GM, not a player. 

I would say that you are right under those circumstances. How do you manage to ramp up the challenges every session though? That sounds exhausting :) 

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7 hours ago, Ahrimon said:

  I'd chalk it up to the entitlement mentality that is perceived to be growing in the younger generations.

Yeah, being old sucks, but don't fault young people when they do better than you.

Edited by Stan Fresh

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The only time I feel particularly fussy about XP is when I had contributed really heavily to a major ongoing event that takes place the session I am away; our group usually only gets awarded 5/10 xp, sometimes 15 for dense sessions. Thus missing out on a major 25 xp gain from something I had contributed heavily into setting up the scene for, but wasn't able to attend because of family commitments would be a bit irritating.

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10 hours ago, HappyDaze said:

Hey, if the challenges ramp up every session,  then not having a character that rises to meet them can be a fun-killer. Having to softball for characters that have fallen behind gets old quick too. I say this as a GM, not a player. 

You are absolutely right. The team should progress fairly the same. If someone falls behind for *insert general excuse* they should be given the chance to catch up. The only difference between The Punishers(patent pending) and the Generous Gods, (IMO) that we should provide the opportunity to those fallen souls by earning this XP, not just recieving it.

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1 hour ago, LordBritish said:

The only time I feel particularly fussy about XP is when I had contributed really heavily to a major ongoing event that takes place the session I am away; our group usually only gets awarded 5/10 xp, sometimes 15 for dense sessions. Thus missing out on a major 25 xp gain from something I had contributed heavily into setting up the scene for, but wasn't able to attend because of family commitments would be a bit irritating.

And as you said you got your share for setting it up, in the form of previous XPs, aren't you?

Although, it seems awful poor organizing (especially if the session XPs are fluctuating heavily) to not reschedule a session so important. 

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2 hours ago, LordBritish said:

Thus missing out on a major 25 xp gain from something I had contributed heavily into setting up the scene for,

I'm failing to understand what happened here - does the GM only award XP at the end of the story and not the session? 

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29 minutes ago, Rimsen said:

And as you said you got your share for setting it up, in the form of previous XPs, aren't you?

Although, it seems awful poor organizing (especially if the session XPs are fluctuating heavily) to not reschedule a session so important. 

If you have a usual group of five people at a set day and time. Then one person suddenly has to cancel shortly before. Most groups will probably still run the session, especially if some are in transit to the session before someone cancels. As long as the GM is still there, then the session probably happens.

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1 hour ago, Rimsen said:

And as you said you got your share for setting it up, in the form of previous XPs, aren't you?

Although, it seems awful poor organizing (especially if the session XPs are fluctuating heavily) to not reschedule a session so important. 

Well that's the thing. Sometimes xp is concentrated in the conclusion of such actions. Such as we had two sessions where we were setting up for the assault on the main citadel, during which we only received a little because we were setting up elements for the big heist. but during the conclusion I was away on a holiday I had scheduled.

In the end I was given the XP for that session as it was concluded I had done a lot of the preparation for that session that got used but I was just using it as a hypothetical example; if you reward based on progression, there will inevitably be some awkward moments 

45 minutes ago, themensch said:

I'm failing to understand what happened here - does the GM only award XP at the end of the story and not the session? 


He usually rewards based on plot progression; thus in sessions that are focused on evidence gathering, set up e.g. where no particular plot points are resolved or progressed, it's usually fairly minimal. In the session I missed a player sacrificed his life to save a planet (he was literally in the heart of a Bardium powered reactor, he got sealed in the bombarded citdel and chose to channel the gas up against the top of the chamber, releasing the blast into the atmosphere like a shaped charge. Beautiful moment), we used the exit vessel we stole for a fast evac (which I had helped secure after assisting with several riots, release of slaves) and the pilot returned to provide relief with the rebel fleet.  A large chunk of it happened in one session, and I was able to only turn up in the aftermath the next week.


I mean don't get me wrong, XP aren't a big thing to me and I've missed out on it before without baiting an eyelid. One entire book adventure because of a string of holidays, or a session that I didn't contribute much setup work for. Not bothered. Just to me usually not making it to the table is more detrimental, and sometimes it's a bit of a kick in the teeth. Depends on context really, context is really important and it largely depends how progress is measured. Given our very strict diet of XP for longevity, I really feel every session I can't make.

 

 

Edited by LordBritish

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37 minutes ago, Darth Revenant said:

If you have a usual group of five people at a set day and time. Then one person suddenly has to cancel shortly before. Most groups will probably still run the session, especially if some are in transit to the session before someone cancels. As long as the GM is still there, then the session probably happens.

Fair enough. Still, in this case I feel like the problem is more like missing the climax of the story, not the XP. It's just collateral damage...

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39 minutes ago, Darth Revenant said:

If you have a usual group of five people at a set day and time. Then one person suddenly has to cancel shortly before. Most groups will probably still run the session, especially if some are in transit to the session before someone cancels. As long as the GM is still there, then the session probably happens.

My policy is that as long as at least two people show up and want to game, then I run game.  If it's a really low turnout due to bad weather or the like, I'll usually throw together some kind of side-story for whoever shows up rather that proceed with whatever I had planned.  Big stories I'll try to hold off until we have a full group, but it's not always possible. 

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My own armchair GM’ing caught this:

52 minutes ago, LordBritish said:

Well that's the thing. Sometimes xp is concentrated in the conclusion of such actions. Such as we had two sessions where we were setting up for the assault on the main citadel, during which we only received a little because we were setting up elements for the big heist. but during the conclusion I was away on a holiday I had scheduled.

So, you’d scheduled a trip, and (I presume) let the GM know, and he still scheduled the climax for when you were gone.

In his shoes (and given the rest of the scenario you describe), I’d have given you the XP, too, because that would be my failure as the GM. (I’ve lost track of how many times I’ve rescheduled the big “season finale” of one of my campaigns because people couldn’t make it, running an alternate session instead.)

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5 hours ago, Darth Revenant said:

If you have a usual group of five people at a set day and time. Then one person suddenly has to cancel shortly before. Most groups will probably still run the session, especially if some are in transit to the session before someone cancels. As long as the GM is still there, then the session probably happens.

This is certainly true for my games. I'm not going to cancel the game for one person that had to miss unless they are the main character in that session somehow. In that situation in the past we have sometimes just ran a one-shot of Fate or something else easy to set up last minute. It's never done because of XP though, only because of continuity.

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@LordBritish I recently went to the story arc XP award over session awards and this was something I had not considered in my choice, namely the amount of participation of the individual characters. It seems to me that since story is about contributions that are memorable and instrumental to what happens, if you have a character that does a lot in one session but misses the next one the amount given to everyone at the end of the arc might still be really close or even the same. 

 

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On 9/5/2018 at 2:38 AM, Stan Fresh said:

Yeah, being old sucks, but don't fault young people when they do better than you.

I don't, and I also don't rub it in their faces when I do better than them.

Nytwyng asked "Please explain how not receiving XP for a missed session is a "punishment."" and I presented a potential explanation.  Anything anyone may have inferred from that is on them.

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On 8/28/2018 at 1:08 AM, warchild1x said:

What are everyone else's thoughts? How do you handle it?

 

As a GM, I consider 3 types of rewards for each adventure: XP, Credits and an extra.

XP: Everyone gets XP, even the missing party members.

Credits: Missing PC gets half of their share.

Extra: Found a cool mod? Info to reduce your obligation? A good deal? That's only available thru playing the game.

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