Mitsu & Tadaka Walk into a Bar

[Duciris 1,347]

Looking for a ruling on the Bad Boys of Northside.

Assuming that Togashi Mitus is participating and that his controller does not have the earth ring in his/her claimed pool, can Mitsu use his ability to play a Kiho (all Dragon Kiho to date are events) from his discard pile if it is the only copy of that event in his discard pile?

I believe the answer is yes, because you are not playing a copy of that card.

Please weigh-in.

Edited August 24, 2018 by Duciris

[Schmoozies 1,374]

Following the logic that Tadaka prevents an opponent from using Kyuden Isawa to play a spell from the discard I'd say no.

http://www.fiveringsdb.com/cards/search?q=isawa tadaka

Edited August 24, 2018 by Schmoozies

[GoblinGuide 171]

Mitsu cannot play an event while Tadaka is active. Dev rulings have stated that cards are copies of themselves, and I believe that the next update to the rules is going to officially clarify that.

 

[BayushiFugu 145]

It is "played as if in your hand" not your discard pile and then it is placed on the bottom of your deck. If you only have one in your discard pile you should be able to play it from there "as if in your hand"

 

[GoblinGuide 171]

You're playing it as if it were in your hand, which is what lets you play it at all, but it isn't actually in your hand. It's still in your discard and Tadaka still sees it to stop you from playing it.

[BayushiFugu 145]

11 hours ago, GoblinGuide said:

You're playing it as if it were in your hand, which is what lets you play it at all, but it isn't actually in your hand. It's still in your discard and Tadaka still sees it to stop you from playing it.

but if you if only have one in your discard pile then you aren't playing a copy from your hand. 

Edited August 25, 2018 by BayushiFugu

[Schmoozies 1,374]

4 hours ago, BayushiFugu said:

but if you if only have one in your discard pile then you aren't playing a copy from your hand. 

The issue is Tadaka says while there is a copy in the discard no copies of the same card can be played.  Yes it is being played as if it were in your hand, but is not actually leaving the discard until after all costs have been paid so when Tadaka does his check to see if there is a copy of the card you are trying to play in the discard he sees the card there and says nope.  Its the same framework as using Test of Skill with Kakita Academy or Pillow Book.  When you go to resolve Test's effect it is still one of the cards on the top of your deck so is revealed as one of the cards.

[Mirith 1,304]

On 8/25/2018 at 8:59 AM, Schmoozies said:

The issue is Tadaka says while there is a copy in the discard no copies of the same card can be played.  Yes it is being played as if it were in your hand, but is not actually leaving the discard until after all costs have been paid so when Tadaka does his check to see if there is a copy of the card you are trying to play in the discard he sees the card there and says nope.  Its the same framework as using Test of Skill with Kakita Academy or Pillow Book.  When you go to resolve Test's effect it is still one of the cards on the top of your deck so is revealed as one of the cards.

I think the argument is the word "copy" implies a different instance of a card.  But this is not the case, as mentioned before a card is considered a copy of itself.

[Duciris 1,347]

RR p.4

Quote

Copy (of a card)

A copy of a card is defined by title: any card that shares the same title is considered a copy, regardless of card type, text, deck of origin, artwork, or any other characteristic(s) of the card(s).

And this confusion is why I asked the question.

[twinstarbmc 719]

So the question is, is a card also a copy of itself? Since it shares the same title with itself, then yeah, it is.

[Bayushi Shunsuke 302]

Which is exacty what the developer ruling (linked to under Tadaka's page) says.

http://www.cardgamedb.com/forums/index.php?/topic/39622-ruling-isawa-tadaka-kyūden-isawa/

[Duciris 1,347]

Thanks, @Bayushi Shunsuke.  From the post:

 

mplain, on 03 Apr 2018 - 01:47 AM, said:

If my opponent controls Isawa Tadaka, can I use Kyūden Isawa to play a Spell event from my discard pile? Is a card considered to be a copy of itself?

A card is considered to be a copy of itself. Therefore, Tadaka would prevent Kyuden Isawa from being triggered.

[Tyler Parrott, 02.04.2018]

Edit:

I can never get the search to work for me on cardgamedb.com.  Nor can I view it on my work computer.

Edited August 29, 2018 by Duciris

[Schmoozies 1,374]

20 minutes ago, Duciris said:

Thanks, @Bayushi Shunsuke.  From the post:

 

mplain, on 03 Apr 2018 - 01:47 AM, said:

If my opponent controls Isawa Tadaka, can I use Kyūden Isawa to play a Spell event from my discard pile? Is a card considered to be a copy of itself?

A card is considered to be a copy of itself. Therefore, Tadaka would prevent Kyuden Isawa from being triggered.

[Tyler Parrott, 02.04.2018]

Edit:

I can never get the search to work for me on cardgamedb.com.  Nor can I view it on my work computer.

Funny that's the exact same explanation and ruling (from a different source) that I gave as the first response to your question.