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Quarrel

scenario: chasing with an ace

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Fenn Rau (PTL, Autothrusters, Title) is chasing some lower-PS T-65 X-wing (Refit, Flight-Assist, S-foils, IA). He boosted into Range 3 to take a free shot this turn, as seen in the image below, and did no damage.

3XRUjOQ.png

Should he turn in and pursue next round (and risk exchanging fire at Range 2), or should he try to disengage (if so, how?) and find a way to come in from behind again in a round or two?

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3 bank in, maybe boost and focus if the x-wing talon rolls to pilot left.  Don't boost if the x wing K turns and is at range 3.  Fenn loves range 1 in arc, which if you don't hit this turn you can the turn after!  Then talon roll behind it the turn after that.

Edited by Jyico

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The only way the X-wing will be engaging Fenn is to pull a red move.  If Fenn 3 banks left, and the X-wing 4ks, I think Fenn can roll to Range 3, maybe is Range 3 already.  If the X-wing T rolls left, the 3 bank + Boost from Fenn should take him to Range 1.  Either is a good situation vs an unmodified attack.

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1) Fenn should absolutely dash in and look to Boost to R1 for extra dice, Evades and Fearless damage

2) In this isolated example, yes probably.  Take the TL now and cash it in on a 5 dice hit next turn.

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35 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

If the X-wing T rolls left, the 3 bank + Boost from Fenn should take him to Range 1.

4 naked reds vs. a free bonus evade + 4 naked greens is still a huge risk when Fenn cannot pull off a PS kill. Push to focus too, or risk it so you can K-turn next round?

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10 minutes ago, Quarrel said:

4 naked reds vs. a free bonus evade + 4 naked greens is still a huge risk when Fenn cannot pull off a PS kill. Push to focus too, or risk it so you can K-turn next round?

Eh, I'm pretty happy with it in this exchange.  I'd probably push to Focus, and use that Focus on offense if it was worth more than one damage.  Next turn you can pull a green to clear and then TL.  The red turnaround move won't be a high quality shot for Fenn anyway. 

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I don't see a reason to play this conservatively unless the overall gamestate / tournament state dictates it? If these are the only 2 ships on the board and you are borderline MOV to make the cut or whatever, then sure, take your time, but otherwise I'm not seeing a reason to hold back with Fenn - between his action economy and pilot ability he is at such an advantage here that it doesn't make sense not to capitalize.

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None of the advice above is bad, but it would also be fine to do a slow turn with Fenn next round (a 1-hard or maybe a 2-bank) to set up for a better shot on round 3. 

 

If you did a left 1-hard, for example, and the X-wing does a Tallon roll to the left, then next turn a right turn should put Fenn in a good position to get the R1 shot, and possibly in a place where he can boost/BR out of arc and still get the R1 shot. 

I mean yes, in a straight up range 1 joust the odds favor Fenn, but a Range 1 shot with no return fire favors Fenn even more. ;) 

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32 minutes ago, Herowannabe said:

None of the advice above is bad, but it would also be fine to do a slow turn with Fenn next round (a 1-hard or maybe a 2-bank) to set up for a better shot on round 3. 

 

If you did a left 1-hard, for example, and the X-wing does a Tallon roll to the left, then next turn a right turn should put Fenn in a good position to get the R1 shot, and possibly in a place where he can boost/BR out of arc and still get the R1 shot. 

I mean yes, in a straight up range 1 joust the odds favor Fenn, but a Range 1 shot with no return fire favors Fenn even more. ;) 

Yeah, this would work. My suggestions were assuming that time was a factor and you wanted to finish off the X-wing as soon as reasonably possible.

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1 hour ago, Boom Owl said:

Can peoples make more of these kinda posts and questions please!!??

Stuff like this is the best

Bio basically covered it.

Hear Hear! I also enjoy these "pilot's lounge" type discussion threads. 

I think a 4 straight MAY work here as well. This move isn't as solid as a 3-bank, but it is an option (with a boost) if you have a rock in the way. 

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16 minutes ago, Nyxen said:

I think the better question is what does the X do to come out on top, 1v1 he's in dire straits.

If they thinks Fenn is going for an aggressive move to close to Range 1, the X-wing pulls a hard 3 right+boost or roll to get as far as possible from Fenn.  I don't think it can avoid the shot, but you can make Fenn burn actions to get the R3 shot, and hopefully leave him more vulnerable to allies.  If the X-wing is just a little closer, a 2 hard left +boost left might make the 3 bank from Fenn overshoot.  

Both options are pretty bad, though. 

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Anyone else have a problem with no asteroids/debris anywhere? That can play a huge roll in where the Xwing and Fenn can and cannot go, and decide the next 2 rounds of decisions as well.

Anyways, the xwing just needs to trade non range 1 shots. Any move that keeps it out of range 1 and doesnt allow fenn to arc dodge while also getting shots is a win for the Xwing.

So a 4 K If the opponent is aggressive, or 3 talon if opponent is more cautious I think are best bets. 

If a rock was nearby the X I would try and get behind it for an extra green die while grabbing a lock on fenn if possible to setup a future round of attacking. 

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3 hours ago, Biophysical said:

Yeah, this would work. My suggestions were assuming that time was a factor and you wanted to finish off the X-wing as soon as reasonably possible.

Part of the question is how aggressive to be. Honestly, I'm surprised I've gotten so much advice saying "do it". When I try it it gets my aces killed, seems like. Also our local league recently picked up a new, very good player who plays a lot of "PS 10 aces who fly behind and solo your whole list", and he's very defensive with them.

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2 hours ago, wurms said:

Anyone else have a problem with no asteroids/debris anywhere?

There are too many different ways they can be arranged.

Quote

Anyways, the xwing just needs to trade non range 1 shots. Any move that keeps it out of range 1 and doesnt allow fenn to arc dodge while also getting shots is a win for the Xwing.

It's difficult to control range vs. a ship that can boost or barrel roll and moves after you. (Put an Autoblaster Turret on Kavil sometime and try to hit any ace with it.) It's impossible vs. one that can do either or both, in any order.

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8 minutes ago, Quarrel said:

There are too many different ways they can be arranged.

It's difficult to control range vs. a ship that can boost or barrel roll and moves after you. (Put an Autoblaster Turret on Kavil sometime and try to hit any ace with it.) It's impossible vs. one that can do either or both, in any order.

Doing a move where range 1 is impossible isnt difficult, like a 4K above, then Fenn controls if the fight is happening at range 2/3 or not at all.

Kavil trying to shoot a higher ace at range 1 is completely different then lower PS avoiding range 1 from a single front arc. With FAA the Xwing COULD create some distance and improve angles if obstacles where out there.

The scenario above is just really vague. Rocks help immensely versus aces. With no rocks though, Fenn can practically set a dial blind and beat the Xwing in an open field.

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6 hours ago, Quarrel said:

Followup question: should Fenn have Pushed into a TL this round?

This is really dependent on the rest of the board and the health of the two ships.  

Lets assume both ships are undamaged and the only ships on the board, the decisions change a bit given health etc...

I think you are looking moves based on your opponent... 

A - aggressive opponent, is likely to 2 left turn, flight assist bank, then s-foils barrel roll, to get the hard turnaround without stress Or pull a Tallon roll here (especially if FA is shut down because of other ships on the board) .

You can pull a 2 left bank to clear the stress, and take a focus. This turn, you keep focus for defense and TL for the following turn, unless the focus gives you full hits.  The following turn you are set to pull a 4-k behind the X-wing (Unless it didn't stress itself) and chase from a closer position, your range makes it hard to use flight assist except to disengage. If the X-wing saved its stress, it might K-turn here and lead you both into a head on stress recovery turn.

B- Careful opponent (Opponent wants to re-engage safely), more likely to reveal a 4-k, giving lots of space. Dial in a 3 bank left, roll or boost should let you trade shots - Dont take the TL first, because you're not clearing it with the 3 bank left. You may lose range on your 2 left bank option, taking a TL may signify it.  if you want to risk it, you can also 3 straight to clear TL stress then boost left and probably get a head on range 3 trade, where Autothrusters is your friend.

C- Flighty opponent (opponent will probably disengage),  maybe 3 tallon right, more likely 3 bank right and flight assist further away to engage later. Take the TL this turn and pull a 3 forward, you can maybe boost or barrel into range if it takes an escape route.  

For you - you have several good options,  2 speed left or 3 speed forward if you take the TL -  3 speed forward can turn into an escape from many of the x-wings turnarounds, or into a chase for many of the x-wings disengage moves. 2 speed bank likely moves you into a ranged position next turn.   

If you dont take the TL, 3 speed bank is likely your best option, you can get a good attack trade on any aggressive move - though you lose a shot but can keep pressure  if the opponent does a right turn boost escape, with a follow up 1 right boost.  Closing range is important in making Fenn work, as is not getting caught with no tokens in range two. 

I think given the multi-turn follow up, id prefer stressing for TL now, since you can deal with the follow ups. Next turn - you don't need a red move, in 2 turns, you'll likely need a hard turnaround of your own. 

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8 hours ago, Quarrel said:

Fenn Rau (PTL, Autothrusters, Title) is chasing some lower-PS T-65 X-wing (Refit, Flight-Assist, S-foils, IA). He boosted into Range 3 to take a free shot this turn, as seen in the image below, and did no damage.

3XRUjOQ.png

Should he turn in and pursue next round (and risk exchanging fire at Range 2), or should he try to disengage (if so, how?) and find a way to come in from behind again in a round or two?

 

33 minutes ago, Ravncat said:

This is really dependent on the rest of the board and the health of the two ships.  

Lets assume both ships are undamaged and the only ships on the board, the decisions change a bit given health etc...

I think you are looking moves based on your opponent... 

A - aggressive opponent, is likely to 2 left turn, flight assist bank, then s-foils barrel roll, to get the hard turnaround without stress Or pull a Tallon roll here (especially if FA is shut down because of other ships on the board) .

There are a lot of variables and I'll give you the X-Wing perspective.  Assuming that's a full health rookie and it's all that's left against Fenn, I 100% hard left, boost left if I have FAA then TL.  If I don't have FAA, I probably still TL.  Even if Fenn catches me (but I suspect he'd be going fast), I have shields and IA.  Then do a red next turn.  The only chance it has is to get mods on Fenn.

 

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3 minutes ago, gennataos said:

 

There are a lot of variables and I'll give you the X-Wing perspective.  Assuming that's a full health rookie and it's all that's left against Fenn, I 100% hard left, boost left if I have FAA then TL.  If I don't have FAA, I probably still TL.  Even if Fenn catches me (but I suspect he'd be going fast), I have shields and IA.  Then do a red next turn.  The only chance it has is to get mods on Fenn.

 

I agree that you must have mods, problem is that if you don't do the follow up barrel roll after the hard turn, fen's move probably rolls out of arc and hits you at range 1, Trading at range 1 is probably better than getting mauled at range 1 and trading the following turn.  The x-wing absolutely has to rely on variance if its the last man standing - or , if its points are higher than fens, run.

 

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13 minutes ago, Ravncat said:

I agree that you must have mods, problem is that if you don't do the follow up barrel roll after the hard turn, fen's move probably rolls out of arc and hits you at range 1, Trading at range 1 is probably better than getting mauled at range 1 and trading the following turn.  The x-wing absolutely has to rely on variance if its the last man standing - or , if its points are higher than fens, run.

If Fenn was closer, I'd agree.  I think where the rookie is, a 2-slight or 2-straight by Fenn still lands with maybe a reposition for an unreturned shot.  A t-roll might actually be it's best shot.  I dunno, it's not a real game state.

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