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The list looks good, I understand that we cannot have it all in the Core.

I wished the Shinjo Outrider fell under the Bushi, Shinobi classification instead of Bushi, Courtier since their really famous for their scouts. ? But hey, maybe there will be a Shinjo Scout coming in the future...

Thanks once again Tonbo Karasu. ?  Proving once more, that the Tonbo are masters of Divination!

Edited by Nheko

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1 minute ago, Nheko said:

The list looks good, I understand that we cannot have it all in the Core.

I wished the Shinjo Outrider fell under the Bushi, Shinobi classification instead of Bushi, Courtier since their really famous for their scouts. ? But hey, maybe there will be a Shinjo Scout coming in the future...

I would expect Emerald Empire to give us one more School per Great Clan, as well as an Otomo Courtier, Seppun Guardsman, and Miya Mystic school for Imperials. Considering the presence of Scouts as a major sub-theme for both the Shinjo and Daidoji, along with a book about "geography", I would expect to see them in Emerald Empire, along with a Bayushi Bushi, an Asako Inquisitor, Hida Berserker, Pure Land Sect Dragon Heretic, Ikoma Scout, and a Mantis Seafarer.

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2 hours ago, Tonbo Karasu said:

Scorpion: Bayushi Manipulator (Courtier), Shosuro Infiltrator (Shinobi, Courtier), Soshi Illusionist (Shugenja, Courtier, Shinobi), Yogo Wardmaster (Shugenja)
 

Disappointment. Soshi Magistrate could have nailed that "Bushi but not Shinobi" role the Scorpion needed.

Otherwise, very excited that the Crab not only have 5 schools, but also the only other Shinobi school!

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2 minutes ago, Hida Jitenno said:

Disappointment. Soshi Magistrate could have nailed that "Bushi but not Shinobi" role the Scorpion needed.

Give it literally one week.

There will be a Soshi Magistrtate school on this board.

And if there isn't one posted by October 18, Jitenno? I will write you one myself.

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2 minutes ago, sndwurks said:

Give it literally one week.

There will be a Soshi Magistrtate school on this board.

And if there isn't one posted by October 18, Jitenno? I will write you one myself.

I did a lot of Homebrew for 3rd myself. We should both Homebrew one and compare!

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I guess I will take on the task of creating the Otomo Bureaucrat (Courtier), Seppun Magistrate (Bushi, Courtier) and Miya Courier  (Courtier) schools.

Every family only gets one school, so I wonder if it would be okay to have a Seppun Astrology (Shugenja) school.

And maybe a Kasuga Smuggler (Courtier, Shinobi) school for their minor clan buddies.

But it will have to wait until I can either buy a pdf copy or I am ready to make another international shipment.

Edited by TheHobgoblyn

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2 hours ago, Suzume Chikahisa said:

We should also remember from the beta that school category tags seem to be alot less restricitve than they used to be. If the Bayushi Manipulator can access kata we might not even need a Bayushi "Bushi".

It's the technique access that will matter.

 

If the Bayushi manipulator was supposed to stand in for both, would it not have had both the bushi and the courtier tags?

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I just want to know one thing, is there an advantage or a guideline for selecting a different school from your clan or switching schools entirely?

3rd and 4th Ed refelected this with the Different  School advantage.

Shame there doesn’t look to be any minor clan love, just have to wait on the Sparrow and Hare. 

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15 minutes ago, General Zod said:

I just want to know one thing, is there an advantage or a guideline for selecting a different school from your clan or switching schools entirely?

I was under the impression that in this edition you didn’t needed an advantage to do that, at least in the Beta it was like that. You just presented in your backstory and if fitted your character you have it, just like Wyrmdog said.

I can confirm if this is the case on the Core on Thursday when my copy arrives...

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7 minutes ago, General Zod said:

I just want to know one thing, is there an advantage or a guideline for selecting a different school from your clan or switching schools entirely?

3rd and 4th Ed refelected this with the Different  School advantage.

Shame there doesn’t look to be any minor clan love, just have to wait on the Sparrow and Hare. 

All Sparrow Clan samurai were Crane Clan samurai. They had the exact same training and techniques you would find in the Crane Clan dojos and that is what they would have passed down to their children generation after generation. Their bushi, courtier and shugenja traditions would just be off-shoots of the Crane Dojos, just without any of the honor or glory of training in the proper main branch.

In fact, the difference between them and the Doji courtiers is a matter of degrees. They gave up the fashinista aspect to double-down on the storytelling aspect and they know how to work the land. All of that is perfectly well conveyed in just the family skill bonuses.

Assuming the families work the same in the full game as in the beta, here is all you need

Crane Clan Family
The Sparrow Clan
Ring Increase: +1 Earth
Skill Increase: +1 Performance, +1 Labor

They gain the same bonuses of being a Crane Clan family except for status. The Sparrow Clan is an independent minor clan, so unlike proper Crane Clan families they start with
Status: 25
Glory: 36

 

Hare is a bit more tricky. Presumably you could do the same thing, but I have no idea if one would consider the Hare more Lion Clan like or Scorpion Clan like. I would lean towards Scorpion as they are kind of tricksy and dodgy and probably do a lot of stealth in their maho-tsukai hunting. So kind of like this
 

Scorpion Clan Family
The Hare Clan
Ring Increase: +1 Water
Skill Increase: +1 Fitness, +1 Games

They gain the same bonuses of being a Scorpion Clan family except for status. The Hare Clan is an independent minor clan, so unlike proper Scorpion Clan families they start with
Status: 25
Glory: 36

 

Just try to get out of the mindset of the mechanics of the Dojos necessarily representing something that could only ever imaginably be taught by one single teacher in all of the universe, and more what they are-- simple mechanics. Getting to reroll a bad die or being able to dodge spears on a charge or being able to move an extra 5' are not some unique sacred arts that could never be duplicated, copied or substituted by anything other than having a direct and unbroken line to a singular individual in all of the world.

 

Just treat every minor clan as though they were a spin-off, mini version of some Great Clan and that covers the issue that every single clan is necessarily going to have bushi, shugenja, courtiers, etc. naturally without having to explicitly train them in their own unique schools with necessarily mechanically different techniques. That sort of goofiness needs to be left behind in 4th edition.

If you insist that the one thing they ironically do is so absolutely different from what the closest Great Clan's most similar school does that is absolutely requires different mechanics, that can be handled separately. But, I really doubt that is going to be true in most cases-- in most cases it will just be someone trying to force it.

The Badger started off early in the empire as Hida and they just got assigned to their own, smaller wall against another enemy that might invade the empire. And they have stood and guarded that wall ever since. And when nothing in the Hida techniques that absolutely indicates it is something only those who fight Shadowlands would do. Insisting that a big buff Badger Clan samurai who guards their wall against foreigners absolutely necessarily be completely mechanically different from the Hida who guards their wall against demons simply because their totem animal is different is just making things unnecessarily complicated for obtuse reasons.

And the Badger might have guys who are like the Kaiu and Hiruma as well. Maybe they don't make use of anything like the Kuni (then again... Ryoshun's grave and ghosts invading from the spirit realm? Do the Kuni's abilities work against spirits, because then it would fit) and there wouldn't have been any Yasuki among their number back when they were made, so maybe that is the "off limits" school for them.

 

Point I am trying to make is that the easiest way to make Minor Clans robust, logical and functional is to just treat them as families of a given clan except they take a major hit to status and glory in exchange for more Independence. The Mantis Clan might be the one that gets treated as full clan... maybe? Then again, they could just be given a family bonus for sailing or whatever and Yasuki and Hiruma schools would do a pretty good job emulating what Mantis are good at.

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2 hours ago, General Zod said:

I just want to know one thing, is there an advantage or a guideline for selecting a different school from your clan or switching schools entirely?

3rd and 4th Ed refelected this with the Different  School advantage.

Shame there doesn’t look to be any minor clan love, just have to wait on the Sparrow and Hare. 

Got my book. Page 56 says to choose a school within your clan, but if you want to have a different school, work out the circumstances with your GM.

Edited by KveldUlfr
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8 hours ago, Tonbo Karasu said:

I was able to see the full list earlier today:

Mirumoto Two-Heavens Adept (Bushi)

8 hours ago, AtoMaki said:

I want to know what this is.

Proof the design team includes someone who read Musashi...

8 hours ago, sndwurks said:

A translation of the word "Niten", from the Japanese niten ichi-ryu or "the school of strategy of two heavens as one". In other words, it is about bringing two weapons to bear on a singular goal. Or, more simply, Mirumoto dual wielding.

More succinctly, the same old "Mirumoto Bushi School" 

 

 

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4 hours ago, Amanda the Panda said:

If the Bayushi manipulator was supposed to stand in for both, would it not have had both the bushi and the courtier tags?

We don't even know if those tags have any kind of important rules meaning at this point. I'll wait for KveldUlfr to shed some light on it. Going by the beta you can have a lot of versaility just by the way you grant access to kata, Shuji, Rituals, Ninjutsu, Invocations, etc

For example if the Kitsuki have access to Kata, Shuji and Rituals that would pretty much cover both the old Magistrate and Justicar schools depending on wheter you focus more on Kata or Shuji.

A Bayushi school with Kata, Shuji and Ninjutsu could potentially cover all the roles from the old Courtier, Bushi or Saboteur.

The basic chassis of the schools seems to be alot more robust in this edition.

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I just picked up the core book today.  I must say the overall quality and production of the book is excellent as fits all of Fantasy Flights stuff that I have seen.  There is however one item that was a huge disappointment for me and  stood out in the book:  the fact that there is no Bushi school for The Scorpion.  I understand that that we can't everything in core but I feel this is a pretty big error in judgement on the part of the design team.  I say this because 1) it has been in the tradition of all L5R's other core books to have  every school have a Bushi and Shugenja present regardless of whatever other schools/professions may or may not exist.  2) The Bayushi  while underhanded have always been good duelist and a rivalry does exist between the Mirumoto and Bayushi.  So for Bushi school specifically a Bayushi School to not be present in the core book is pretty big for me.  I would have rather had the Yogo Wardmaster moved to a supplemental book like Emerald Empire, etc.  As it stands now if a PC wanted to play the dark anti-heroesque  but mechanically effective swordsman that the Bayushi Bushi school delivered in prior editions that PC is just stuck with a Bayushi Courtier—a far different thing.    Again overall great book with just one big disappointment.

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