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FTS Gecko

Caravan of Courage is objectively a better film than The Last Jedi

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Note: posted before @FTS Gecko got back.

As this is an objective claim, I feel hard numbers and facts are in order and would like these numbers to be addressed when the subject of considering objective superiority.

Rotten tomatoes scores: CoC is at 25%, while TLJ is at 91%. Even going off just the user reviews, CoC is still below TLJ’s 46% with 44%. IMDB has CoC at 5.5 while TLJ is at 7.2. Google users do err on the CoC side with 84% to TLJ’s 73%, but I can’t find the actual reviews for those, so I am somewhat cautious as to the number of users that actually thumbs upped CoC. Up to the reader to form their own conclusions on that last one.

CoC was nominated for two awards, won one (an Emmy for Oustanding Visual Effects).  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caravan_of_Courage:_An_Ewok_Adventure

TLJ was nominated for over 100 awards at various places, even the Oscars. It won 21 awards. https://m.imdb.com/title/tt2527336/

Special note: the presentation of these  figures are not intended to imply that people who are reading this should like TLJ. You watched it. You got every right to the opinion you formed of it. Same with CoC. Though I still challenge FTS’s use of “objective” in this case. 

I look forward to reading over your points, FTS.

Edited by SabineKey

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11 hours ago, Forgottenlore said:

In the thread that spawned this, Gecko did mention that nostalgia may be coloring his views. I have tried to watch CoC as an adult and was not able to actually sit through it, it’s so bad. 

I felt the same way about The Last Jedi.  The first film EVER that's made me feel like I wanted to leave the cinema.

I didn't, of course, but it didn't get any better.

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3 hours ago, FTS Gecko said:

I felt the same way about The Last Jedi.  The first film EVER that's made me feel like I wanted to leave the cinema.

I didn't, of course, but it didn't get any better.

And that’s fair enough, but still sounds like the basis for an subjective opinion rather than an objective one.

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6 minutes ago, ViscerothSWG said:

I probably watched the ewok movies a dozen times as a kid. 

I have only watched TLJ once thus far. 

Small sample size there, but I'd suggest Caravan of Courage was objectively more successful with its target audience (Children) than TLJ was with its target (All Star Wars Fans).

Perhaps. But like you said, small sample size.

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14 minutes ago, ViscerothSWG said:

I probably watched the ewok movies a dozen times as a kid. 

I have only watched TLJ once thus far. 

Small sample size there, but I'd suggest Caravan of Courage was objectively more successful with its target audience (Children) than TLJ was with its target (All Star Wars Fans).

I'll double your sample size.

I only watched the Ewok movies once when I was a kid (can hardly remember it except that it's about a family that crash on Endor and that there's a witch) and already have watched The Last Jedi more than 10 times since its release (it helps that my girlfriend loves it too).

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6 hours ago, ViscerothSWG said:

Small sample size there, but I'd suggest Caravan of Courage was objectively more successful with its target audience (Children) than TLJ was with its target (All Star Wars Fans).

Well that's hardly a fair comparison. Those are two completely different target audiences.

Children: Generally easy to please and entertain. They aren't stupid, but they don't tend to go to movies with preconceived expectations. If they do, they aren't high expectations at that. Probably about ages 5-12

All Star Wars Fans: Encompasses ages 5-65+, most likely. The expectations for this movie were all across the board for that age range. It was going to be impossible for the movie to please that enormous a range of people.

Edited by Derpzilla88

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2 hours ago, ViscerothSWG said:

Small sample size there, but I'd suggest Caravan of Courage was objectively more successful with its target audience (Children) than TLJ was with its target (All Star Wars Fans).

You think Star Wars fans were the target audience of TLJ? I believe you are mistaken.

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6 hours ago, Red Castle said:

I'll double your sample size.

I only watched the Ewok movies once when I was a kid (can hardly remember it except that it's about a family that crash on Endor and that there's a witch) and already have watched The Last Jedi more than 10 times since its release (it helps that my girlfriend loves it too).

Triple. I've never seen the Ewok movies, but The Holiday Special is unironically a better Star Wars movie than TLJ, so I don't see how it could be worse.

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19 hours ago, TasteTheRainbow said:

You think Star Wars fans were the target audience of TLJ? I believe you are mistaken.

You're right! Marvel fans was the target audience for TLJ with the slap- stick humor and paper-thin plot.

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18 minutes ago, Zarovichx said:

You're right! Marvel fans was the target audience for TLJ with the slap- stick humor and paper-thin plot.

It certainly wasnt DC fans. The lead character's parents didn't have the same name, there were bright colors on the screen, and every male character didn't use the same gruff raspy voice.

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6 minutes ago, TasteTheRainbow said:

Yes. If only they could match the plot perfection and totally grown-up humor of the OT.

 

https://imgur.com/gallery/dUdFj

RotJ isn't a top 3 SW movie. I agree that the Ewoks winning made no sense against the Emperor's best soldiers.  No argument from me there. I'm not a OT purist with nostalgia goggles on. But if the baby is ugly, I say it.

Ewok battle is ugly, Anakin's acting is ugly, TLJ is ugly, some of the acting in ANH is ugly. Lando wearing Han's clothes in ESB is weird.

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6 minutes ago, Zarovichx said:

Lando wearing Han's clothes in ESB is weird.

Weeelll...he wasn’t able to get to a cape store before rejoining the Rebel Fleet and all he had was the clothes on his back, so he borrowed some clothes. He said he was goin after Han, but everyone knew that was after some clothes shopping.

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21 hours ago, Zarovichx said:

RotJ isn't a top 3 SW movie. I agree that the Ewoks winning made no sense against the Emperor's best soldiers.  No argument from me there. I'm not a OT purist with nostalgia goggles on. But if the baby is ugly, I say it.

Ewok battle is ugly, Anakin's acting is ugly, TLJ is ugly, some of the acting in ANH is ugly. Lando wearing Han's clothes in ESB is weird.

Vader entering the base on Hoth was unbelievably moronic. The Exoggorth was childishly dumb and the plot around it was worse. Vader and Boba sitting down to an actual set dinner with Han and Leia was ridiculous. And that’s the “GOOD” movie.

 

It’s Star Wars man. It’s all ridiculous. It’s all full of plot holes. Like every popular movie out there.

Edited by TasteTheRainbow

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10 minutes ago, TasteTheRainbow said:

Vader entering the base on Hoth was unbelievably moronic. The Exoggorth was childishly dumb and the plot around it was worse. Vader and Boba sitting down to an actual set dinner with Han and Leia was ridiculous. 

 

It’s Star Wars man. It’s all ridiculous. It’s all full of plot holes. Like every popular movie out there.

Lets not lose our heads here...ESB is not Masters of the Universe, Pluto Nash, or TLJ bad. There are levels to this.

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47 minutes ago, TasteTheRainbow said:

Vader and Boba sitting down to an actual set dinner with Han and Leia was ridiculous. 

I always tried to picture Vader setting the scene.

Vader: ''Alright guys, I have an idea! So, Lando will go pick Han, Leia and the wookie and invite them to dinner, so they don't suspect anything. I'm 100% sure that they'll all agree. Meanwhile, I'll just sit here doing nothing while Boba, you hide in the corner! Then, once Lando open the door, I'll just stand up and say something cool. Then Boba, you come out of hiding and a couple Stormtrooper gets behind them! It will be soooo dramatic!''

Trooper: ''But sir, wouldn't it be more simple if we just went to get them in their chamber?''

Vader: ''Maybe, but it would not be as cool....''

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56 minutes ago, Zarovichx said:

Lets not lose our heads here...ESB is not Masters of the Universe, Pluto Nash, or TLJ bad. There are levels to this.

I liked TLJ better personally, but none of those are winning any oscars for writing, lol.

Edited by TasteTheRainbow

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