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Stan Fresh

Star Wars Resistance - new trailer

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1 minute ago, Stan Fresh said:

But it wasn't realistic at all, it was super stylized. Sure, it looked very different form what we've seen in this trailer, but not in a manner approaching reality.

I would say that realism of the "shadowing" was above zero where 50% might be a passing grade for "realistic"

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31 minutes ago, EliasWindrider said:

Was it or was it not a mistake for you to associate my comment about "bright colors and unrealistic shadowing" with "cell shading"?  Are they equivalent or not?  If they are not equivalent, then you failed at communicating and made a mistake by mis-associating them. 

Your comment was not just about bright colors. You also talk about the shading and shadows used. It was about the art style as a whole. You said the art style was designed to appeal to kids specifically moreso than adults.  That is wrong. 

 

9 hours ago, EliasWindrider said:

It looks like an art style that would appeal more to kids than adults, brighter colors, unrealistic  shadowing, traditional cgi tends to get those things more realistic/darker (color)

The art style being used is the same art style used in Appleseed; that being Cell shaded CGI. It is not one that is inherently more appealing to children over adults. The colors, as well, are no brighter nor more vibrant than those used in the aforementioned movie. It is a style used for shows and movies that appeal  to, or target, multiple different demographic audiences equally.

Edited by Tramp Graphics

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10 hours ago, Swordbreaker said:

Although I don't disagree about this being targeted at kids, what about it blending traditional and CGI animate specifically makes it kid-targeted?

 

9 hours ago, EliasWindrider said:

It looks like an art style that would appeal more to kids than adults, brighter colors, unrealistic  shadowing, traditional cgi tends to get those things more realistic/darker (color)

@Tramp Graphics re-read the aspects of the artstyle which I claimed made it especially appealing to kids.  You then associated these aspects with cell shaded animation.  Was that or was that not a mistake/failure to communicate on your part?

Either way I stand by my statement that bright colors and unrealistic shadowing specifically targets kids.  Anything beyond that is what you added to the conversation.

Edited by EliasWindrider

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8 minutes ago, EliasWindrider said:

 

@Tramp Graphics re-read the aspects of the artstyle which I claimed made it especially appealing to kids.  You then associated these aspects with cell shades animation.  Was that or was that not a mistake/failure to communicate on your part?

Either way I stand by my statement that bright colors and unrealistic shadowing specifically targets kids.  Anything beyond that is what you added to the conversation.

And I am saying no, they are not. It is the same style of shading used in many shows and movies targeting adults as well, particularly Japanese animated movies and shows. As a prime example, check out the trailer for Appleseed :

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:

And I am saying no, they are not. It is the same style of shading used in many shows and movies targeting adults as well, particularly Japanese animated movies and shows. As a prime example, check out the trailer for Appleseed :

 

 

Without even playing it I can see darker colors and shadows in the single freeze frame. 

You verbally confirmed this.  

Therefore your association of cell shaded animation with bright colors and unrealistic shadowing was a mistake.

You can use superior knowledge to present true information and still be wrong because you made incorrect associations.  Such is the case here.

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3 minutes ago, EliasWindrider said:

Without even playing it I can see darker colors and shadows in the single freeze frame. 

You verbally confirmed this.  

Therefore your association of cell shaded animation with bright colors and unrealistic shadowing was a mistake.

You can use superior knowledge to present true information and still be wrong because you made incorrect associations.  Such is the case here.

Watch the trailer in its entirety. Also, watch the actual movie. The characters use the exact same shading style as is used in Resistance. The image used in that still shot is a night time shot, so, of course, the colors are going to be more muted. The day time shots, and shots in brightly lit rooms have the same bright colors as in Resistance, and the shading and “unrealistic shadows” is also identical. 

Edited by Tramp Graphics

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14 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:

Watch the trailer in its entirety. Also, watch the actual movie. The characters use the exact same shading style as is used in Resistance. The image used in that still shot is a night time shot, so, of course, the colors are going to be more muted. 

"Shadowing" not "shading". They're similarly spelled words with vastly different meanings, I can look at the images casually and pick out important stylistic differences that I don't have the artistic vocabulary to put words to.

Btw coloring was a lot different even in the trailer's daytime scenes so it's not just a day/night difference.

Edited by EliasWindrider

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12 minutes ago, EliasWindrider said:

"Shadowing" not "shading". They're similarly spelled words with vastly different meanings, I can look at the images casually and pick out important stylistic differences that I don't have the artistic vocabulary to put words to.

Btw coloring was a lot different even in the trailer's daytime scenes so it's not just a day/night difference.

Yes, it is. The only difference between this movie and Resistance, in terms of rendering style is how the background environment is rendered. I have Appleseed on DVD, so I can tell you with 100% certainty that the rendering style used for the characters in that movie is identical to the rendering style used in Resistance. It is Cell Shaded 3D CG animation, and is a very common style used in Japan on a wide variety of projects targeted towards many demographic audiences, not just kids. Your opening statement is flat out wrong

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6 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:

Yes, it is. The only difference between this movie and Resistance, in terms of rendering style is how the background environment is rendered. I have Appleseed on DVD, so I can tell you with 100% certainty that the rendering style used for the characters in that movie is identical to the rendering style used in Resistance. It is Cell Shaded 3D CG animation, and is a very common style used in Japan on a wide variety of projects targeted towards many demographic audiences, not just kids. Your opening statement is flat out wrong

Coloring is very different, shadows are very different, I'm presuming that there's meaning associated with rendering that I'm not aware of so I'm going to stick with my original statements of coloring and shadowing both of which are very different than appleseed, but I don't have the artistic vocabulary to precisely describe how.

My statement opening and closing that the bright colors and unrealistic shadowing in Resistance trailer is particularly appealing to kids. That is not wrong.  Your association of it will cell shaded animation was wrong.

Edited by EliasWindrider

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Just now, EliasWindrider said:

Coloring is very different, shadows are very different, I'm presuming that there's mea

No, Keith, it isn’t. I’ve seen the movie many times. The coloring and shading (including shadows) is identical. It is the exact same rendering style. The only stylistic difference between the two is in how the characters are modeled. That has nothing to do with the rendering of the colors, shading, or lighting. Both use the same cell shaded rendering style. 

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1 minute ago, Tramp Graphics said:

No, Keith, it isn’t. I’ve seen the movie many times. The coloring and shading (including shadows) is identical. It is the exact same rendering style. The only stylistic difference between the two is in how the characters are modeled. That has nothing to do with the rendering of the colors, shading, or lighting. Both use the same cell shaded rendering style. 

The only way that can be true is if the rest of the appleseed movie is very different than the trailer which I find highly doubtful.

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2 minutes ago, EliasWindrider said:

The only way that can be true is if the rest of the appleseed movie is very different than the trailer which I find highly doubtful.

Keith, here is a picture of one of the main characters:

athena-areios-18627.jpg?t=1292200629

look at how bright those colors are, particularly her hair and skin tone. That is the exact same as used on the characters in Resistance

Here’s Deunan Knute, the lead character:

latest?cb=20171205185257

Yes, her clothes in this image are more subdued, as would be expected of military camouflage, but the rendering is the same. Not only that, but the orange jacket and miniskirt she wears in one sequence is a very vivid orange. 

Finally, here’s Hitomi: 

6860.jpg

 

Look at how bright the green of her sweater is. Look at how vivid the red of her lipstick. That’s just as bright as the colors used in the trailer for Resistance. So, yes, the rendering style  of the characters in Appleseed is identical to the rendering style used in Resistance

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44 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:

Keith, here is a picture of one of the main characters:

athena-areios-18627.jpg?t=1292200629

look at how bright those colors are, particularly her hair and skin tone. That is the exact same as used on the characters in Resistance

Here’s Deunan Knute, the lead character:

latest?cb=20171205185257

Yes, her clothes in this image are more subdued, as would be expected of military camouflage, but the rendering is the same. Not only that, but the orange jacket and miniskirt she wears in one sequence is a very vivid orange. 

Finally, here’s Hitomi: 

6860.jpg

 

Look at how bright the green of her sweater is. Look at how vivid the red of her lipstick. That’s just as bright as the colors used in the trailer for Resistance. So, yes, the rendering style  of the characters in Appleseed is identical to the rendering style used in Resistance

Every single one of those pictures had extremely dark colors in them, I didn't see a single shot in the trailer without predominantly dark colors. There were some that were half bright half dark though.

Edited by EliasWindrider

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21 minutes ago, EliasWindrider said:

Every single one of those pictures had extremely dark colors in them, I didn't see a single shot in the trailer without predominantly dark colors. There were some that were half bright half dark though.

You mean like dark hair (Hitomi), or military uniforms? So what! The colors of the skin, civilian clothing, Athena’s and Hitomi’s wardrobes, as well as Deunan’s civies are all very vivid. There are plenty of dark colors in the Resistance trailer as well. It’s not all bright colors either. And, as I proved, the shading is also identical between them. You’re not gonna win this one. I’ve seen the movie dozens of times, and I know how the rendering is done. The colors are dark where appropriate and vivid where appropriate.  It’s identical in every way to the character rendering in the trailer for Resistance. As such, your assertion that the style is deliberately designed to appeal to kids more than adults is patently false. 

Edited by Tramp Graphics

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5 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:

You mean like dark hair (Hitomi), or military uniforms? So what! The colors of the skin, civilian clothing, Athena’s and Hitomi’s wardrobes, as well as Deunan’s civies are all very vivid. There are plenty of dark colors in the Resistance trailer as well. It’s not all bright colors either. And, as I proved, the shading is also identical between them. You’re not gonna win this one. I’ve seen the movie dozens of times, and I know how the rendering is done. It’s identical in every way to the character rendering in the trailer for Resistance. As such, your assertion that the style is deliberately designed to appeal to kids more than adults is patently false. 

Dark vs. Light ratio is quite a bit different over the span of the two trailers.  Shadows are also different.

Edited by EliasWindrider

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16 minutes ago, EliasWindrider said:

@Tramp Graphics I'm not the only one who sees it.

Regardless, my point still stands, and there seem to be plenty who agree with me as well. 

 

23 minutes ago, EliasWindrider said:

Dark vs. Light ratio is quite a bit different over the span of the two trailers.  Shadows are also different.

Watch this scene from the movie itself: 

Look at how bright the colors are, particularly in Hitomi’s and Deunan’s attire. The rendering style is identical. It’s the same bright pallet, the same shading. The difference is in the modeling. But neither is more “kid centered” than the other, in terms of art style. Both are simply “anime” style art. 

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4 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:

Regardless, my point still stands, and there seem to be plenty who agree with me as well. 

 

Watch this scene from the movie itself: 

Look at how bright the colors are, particularly in Hitomi’s and Deunan’s attire. The rendering style is identical. It’s the same bright pallet, the same shading. The difference is in the modeling. But neither is more “kid centered” than the other, in terms of art style. Both are simply “anime” style art. 

I watched it, it's predominantly dark with limited bright highlights.  It's a very different bright to dark ratio.  I would say appleseed is adult and Resistance is kid based on the coloring/shadows.

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Wrong. The “ratio” is the same. What you don’t have in Appleseed is aliens with unusual skin colors. But the pallet is the same. The rendering style for the characters is the same. The background environment rendering in Appleseed, however is another matter. That is photo realistic, whereas in Resistance they use the same cell shaded rendering style for both characters and environment. Any other “difference” is more a factor of one being a feature length theatrical movie and the other being a TV show.

 

Edited by Tramp Graphics

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29 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:

Wrong. The “ratio” is the same. What you don’t have in Appleseed is aliens with unusual skin colors. But the pallet is the same. The rendering style for the characters is the same. The background environment rendering in Appleseed, however is another matter. That is photo realistic, whereas in Resistance they use the same cell shaded rendering style for both characters and environment. Any other “difference” is more a factor of one being a feature length theatrical movie and the other being a TV show.

 

If you can't see that appleseed is predominantly very dark with limited bright highlights even during daylight scenes and that's not true of the Resistance trailer, then you're not living up to your talent and training.

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You guys should really take this off line.  I am sure I am speaking for many when I say I don't care for the art theory pedantry going on here.

Can we go back to talking about the forthcoming show instead? 

I for one am looking forward to it.  It does look kid oriented, but given we have a live action show coming too, I don't mind that this is for kids.

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