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Is it me or Range Light is the most useful fighting skill?

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9 minutes ago, HappyDaze said:

How does this follow?

OP learned melee, only to realize the ways in which ranged weapons are superior. It's a joke and a metaphor for how things went historically in that regard, if you squint at it a bit.

 

Edited by Stan Fresh

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On 8/17/2018 at 11:23 PM, 2P51 said:

I'm familiar with design philosophies of the game but concerns about bloat are disingenuous since we're currently 100+ specs into the game. Given we have 6 combat skills, but only one for doing everything from winding a clock to building a droideka I think there's room for some additional granularity. 

Introduce a new category similar to knowledge:

Engineering - mechanics / electronics / computers / chemistry / cybernetics / starships

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In my Star Trek conversion I'm going to create Engineering as an example.  Mechanics fix broken stuff and maintain things, Engineers design new stuff.  Same with computers although I haven't really decided how I want to split it up or the names I intend to use.

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Would you want them to key off different abilities? It feels like most 'smart characters' can do pretty much anything regardless of skill given how much more important abilities are than skills. Split Mechanics into Cunning/Intellect skills, just like how Genesys splits Piloting into Agility/Intellect based skills?

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I have split some things. I made Pilot intellect. I made Stealth Cunning. Part of why I want more diversity added to the skills is just that reason. Ideally I'd  like to try to get the tech skills split into 'fix stuff', 'design stuff', and even 'build stuff'. Then I wanna try and put more value on Triumphs so that you can't just have the 5 intellect PC that can do everything without bothering with skills.

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My opinion is that ranged light or lightsaber or gunnery is the most useful combat skill in the game depending on circumstances, rangedlight because 1 purple at short, easy to conceal, lightsaber because lightsabers are beyond awesome if you can use them well and FaD is the force monkey game and could make that default for all FaD characters, and gunnery for starship combat... if you have a game that largely takes place in the cockpit of starfighters, granted that's a rarity but nothing else will do in that circumstances

Brawl, melee, and ranged heavy can be the best option for individual characters but it's highly unlikely it will be the best option for all characters in a single game.  Whereas for ranged light, lightsaber and maybe gunnery there are plausible scenarios where each of those 3 could be the best combat skills for all pcs in a single campaign.

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On 8/15/2018 at 10:22 AM, pnewman15 said:

Damage is primarily about overcoming Soak. Suppose two identical beginning characters with Soak 3 and 12 wounds shoot each other with blaster pistols doing a base of 5 damage. They hit 60% of the time, and have an average of 2 successes when they do hit. They will do an average of 2.4 points per turn (5+2-3) * 0.6 =2.4. They will therefore require about 5 turns (12/2.4) to reduce each other to 0 wounds.

Thy both switch to blaster rifles doing a base of 9 damage. Assuming the hit as often they will double the average damage they inflict  per turn (9+2-3) * 0.6 = 4.8 and require an average of 2.5 turns (12/4.8) to reduce each other to 0 wounds. 

The advantages of the pistol are that it is lower encumbrance, permitted more places, and easier to sneak into places it is not permitted. (It's also easier to hit with if you're quite close, and harder to hit with if you're far away, so that is situational).

There's one more advantage of pistols over other weapons. The absolutely bad *** skill of using 2 tricked out sidearms at the same time. Yes, I know the difficulty is increased but, with the right mods and talents, one can be a terror on the battlefield and look cool while doing it. 

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On 8/19/2018 at 5:18 PM, T70 Driver said:

There's one more advantage of pistols over other weapons. The absolutely bad *** skill of using 2 tricked out sidearms at the same time. Yes, I know the difficulty is increased but, with the right mods and talents, one can be a terror on the battlefield and look cool while doing it. 

A heavy blaster rifle on Auto-fire does it better. If you can't pack that,  the are Auto-fire capable blaster pistols too. Two guns are for suckers.

Edited by HappyDaze
Is "suckets" even a word? Autocorrect for the loss...

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On 8/19/2018 at 3:12 PM, HappyDaze said:

A heavy blaster rifle on Auto-fire does it better. If you can't pack that,  the are Auto-fire capable blaster pistols too. Two guns are for suckets.

When we were play-testing Hired Guns I played a tricked out Gunslinger who routinely did 24+ points of damage with each of his two pistols. We had a battle in a hanger, and he actually crippled a Tie Fighter with his hand-guns. Good times.

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1 minute ago, pnewman15 said:

When we were play-testing Hired Guns I played a tricked out Gunslinger who routinely did 24+ points of damage with each of his two pistols. We had a battle in a hanger, and he actually crippled a Tie Fighter with his hand-guns. Good times.

I'm assuming the TIE didn't return fire or the exchange probably would have gone down quite differently.

If you don't mind me asking, how did you get such damage with a pair of pistols?

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On 8/19/2018 at 4:12 PM, HappyDaze said:

A heavy blaster rifle on Auto-fire does it better. If you can't pack that,  the are Auto-fire capable blaster pistols too. Two guns are for suckers.

True but you can't pack that auto-fire capable Blaster Rifle, a military weapon, places you can pack twin Blaster Pistols. Also it's not always about what's the most effective. A character's concept can be built around dual wielding Pistols as a Gunslinger for example. And finally, the Rule of Cool trumps all.

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27 minutes ago, HappyDaze said:

I'm assuming the TIE didn't return fire or the exchange probably would have gone down quite differently.

If you don't mind me asking, how did you get such damage with a pair of pistols?

As one who's currently playing a Gunslinger I'd like to know this as well.

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2 minutes ago, T70 Driver said:

True but you can't pack that auto-fire capable Blaster Rifle, a military weapon, places you can pack twin Blaster Pistols.

And that's where my second suggestion, about an Af-capable pistol, comes in.

As far as not packing military weapons, this is Star Wars. There are many, many situations where heavy firepower is appropriate and limiting yourself to just bringing a sidearm (or two) to a battlefield is not really a smart option.

Edited by HappyDaze

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Just now, HappyDaze said:

And that's where my second suggestion, about an Af-capable pistol, comes in.

As far as not packing military weapons, this is Star Wars. There are many, many situations where heavy firepower is appropriate and bringing a sidearm (or two) to a battlefield is not really a smart option.

Which pistols are auto-fire capable? I don't have access to my books so I can't look up those pistols that have the auto-fire quality.

And, so far in the campaign I'm currently in, all of our firefights have been in close quarters where long range firepower has not been needed and my pistols have been quite sufficient to deal with the bad guys. However, we do have a player that's running a Marksman style character and is specializing in long range combat. Also, as our campaign progresses, I am planning to trick out a Blaster Rifle for long range work....nothing special but something to reach out and touch someone when needed. 

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45 minutes ago, T70 Driver said:

Which pistols are auto-fire capable? I don't have access to my books so I can't look up those pistols that have the auto-fire quality.

And, so far in the campaign I'm currently in, all of our firefights have been in close quarters where long range firepower has not been needed and my pistols have been quite sufficient to deal with the bad guys. However, we do have a player that's running a Marksman style character and is specializing in long range combat. Also, as our campaign progresses, I am planning to trick out a Blaster Rifle for long range work....nothing special but something to reach out and touch someone when needed. 

My favorite is the BlasTech SE-14r from Dangerous Covenants. Damage 6, Critical 3, Range Medium, Enc 2, HP 3, Price 1,000 (R), Rarity 6, Auto-fire & Stun Setting. The only downside is that it is Restricted, but that's not too hard to deal with for most PCs.

As for the big stuff, you can still use blaster carbines and blaster rifles up close, especially if you get the Forearm Grip (which can also be modded for Accuracy 1 and Point Blank 1, so it's very good). If you want to go bigger, even a Heavy Blaster Rifle can be used in Engaged for Difficulty 4 (5 on Auto-fire), but most of the time a maneuver to step out of engaged is all it takes to bring it back to Difficulty 2 (3 on Auto-fire). I typically consider these three weapons to be the ideal all-rounders against the Empire. The Rebellion is an armed insurgency, and when blasting at Stormtroopers, you don't bring popguns to that kind of fight--leave pistols to the spies and REMF.

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57 minutes ago, T70 Driver said:

Which pistols are auto-fire capable? I don't have access to my books so I can't look up those pistols that have the auto-fire quality.

And, so far in the campaign I'm currently in, all of our firefights have been in close quarters where long range firepower has not been needed and my pistols have been quite sufficient to deal with the bad guys. However, we do have a player that's running a Marksman style character and is specializing in long range combat. Also, as our campaign progresses, I am planning to trick out a Blaster Rifle for long range work....nothing special but something to reach out and touch someone when needed. 

Not following much the discussion anymore, but as to your question, "IR-5 “Intimidator” Blaster Pistol" would be one

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On 8/20/2018 at 10:48 PM, HappyDaze said:

I'm assuming the TIE didn't return fire or the exchange probably would have gone down quite differently.

If you don't mind me asking, how did you get such damage with a pair of pistols?

So this was actually the "Fly Casual" playtest. (We are Battlegroup Anchorage in the playtest credits.) I was playing a Quarren Gunslinger with DEX 6 (from Dedication and a Dex focused build) and Weapons Light 5 . I had Guns Blazing, Deadly Accuracy, Quick strike/2, Improved Quick Draw, Sorry About the Mess, Dedication, etc. (pretty much the whole Gunslinger tree).

We were at medium Range but I was two sizes smaller than the Tie Fighters, so my base DC was one purple. The minion Tie pilots could not hit the broad side of a target two sizes smaller and with a Defense of 2. If they had I'd have been vaporized. Some other people were shooting at them too, and they apparently foolishly thought that the attackers with heavy weapons were the greater threat.

I was using a pair of DragonEye Reaper Heavy Blaster Pistols with Set Triggers. The pistols had the Superior Mod and the Marksman Barrel Mos, both with 2 Weapon Quality Accurate Mods and 1 Innate Talent Sniper Shot mods. The triggers were modded (in a way that was more generous in playtest than in the final document, I can't tell you). Base damage was 8 + 1 for superior  +2 for (they took this out and I can't tell you) + 1 each for each of my average of 10 successes = 21 damage +5 for the first hit of the turn. Against people (who were harder targets) I averaged a point or two lower in damage. (26 and 21 average to 23.5 each, rounding up to 24 in generalizing comments made years later.)

I was rolling 5 Yellows + 1 green + 5 Blues (7 blues against targets who had not acted, and I beat the Tie Pilots initiative)  I had +1 Automatic success from weapon qualities. I could aim one as a incidental because of the Set Trigger, and used a Maneuver to Aim the other, putting me at 8 blues against targets who had not acted. With the barrels and the Sniper shot talent I could hit at a maximum of extreme range. I used Deadly Accuracy to gain +5 damage from my first hit per turn, turning it from an average of 21 points to an average of 26 points. I also regularly had a Triumph per turn, so critting was easy.

Ties have 2 Armor, so that counts as 20 Soak, so hits doing 21-29 damage  inflict one Hull damage. With two or three rounds of focused fire on one of the two Ties (which had 6 Hull Threshold) I critted and destroyed one of them.

Admittedly having pistols that cost Cr 20,000 or so  for the pair helped a lot. I don't know for sure but I like to think that the report of this playtest session is part of what got them to tone down the Gunslinger slightly in the final document. Oh, and since I could breathe water I could set up a dockside attack, hop in the water, and just swim away, hiding with my Ink Spray.
 

 

Edited by pnewman15
typo

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13 hours ago, HappyDaze said:

My favorite is the BlasTech SE-14r from Dangerous Covenants. Damage 6, Critical 3, Range Medium, Enc 2, HP 3, Price 1,000 (R), Rarity 6, Auto-fire & Stun Setting. The only downside is that it is Restricted, but that's not too hard to deal with for most PCs.

As for the big stuff, you can still use blaster carbines and blaster rifles up close, especially if you get the Forearm Grip (which can also be modded for Accuracy 1 and Point Blank 1, so it's very good). If you want to go bigger, even a Heavy Blaster Rifle can be used in Engaged for Difficulty 4 (5 on Auto-fire), but most of the time a maneuver to step out of engaged is all it takes to bring it back to Difficulty 2 (3 on Auto-fire). I typically consider these three weapons to be the ideal all-rounders against the Empire. The Rebellion is an armed insurgency, and when blasting at Stormtroopers, you don't bring popguns to that kind of fight--leave pistols to the spies and REMF.

If I was in a military based campaign then I would be packing the firepower you're recommending. My group specializes in heists and other low profile ops where going in with heavy firepower is detrimental. The closest to the Rebellion we've been is watching it on the Holonet. The twin pistols I've been using (dual Merr-Sonn Model 53 "Quicktrigger" pistols, each with Superior, BAM with all mods, Custom Grips and Paired Weapons) have been sufficient for the job up to this point. I will be taking a look at the pistols mentioned in this thread but, unless we start interacting with the Rebellion on a friendly basis, I'm going to be staying away from the heavier weaponry. The big weapons, while nice, just doesn't fit the concept that I have for my character.

Edited by T70 Driver

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