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Mefyrx

Is it me or Range Light is the most useful fighting skill?

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It is simple, each skills required their obvious weapon type

 

The difference is that ranged light also contains grenades....and i see that now that i've found some and i've decided to use melee as my fighting skill

Edited by Mefyrx

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Happy Daze is correct.

The grenades aren't really grenade like.  However, I do house rule that they are "more" effective, especially against mooks.

Ranged Heavy is more effective in serious combat as you can reach out further and do considerable damage.  The group of PC's that I run has a markswoman who is pretty well guarantied to drop any opponent within long range.  But wouldn't be able to do that with RAW grenades.

My group has also had engagements where one of the party would hop into a ship's turret and blast away at waves of inbound well armored battle droids.  That character was using the Gunnery skill, and without that skill, the group may have been overrun as its REALLY hard to hit a Sil 1 target from a Sil 4 platform.

Plus if your character is armed with a Lightsaber, then the lightsaber skill is vital.  Lightsabers can do all sorts of wonderful things, like ignore all soak, reflect & deflect inbound damage, improve your defensive bonuses, inflict vicious wounds, etc.  (I'm still learning new things for the lightstabbers* as our group is just beginning to use them).

So no.  Ranged Light is a useful combat skill, but it's as useful as the other skills, based on the situation that you find yourself in and the weapons that area available.

* - This was originally a typo, but I like the typo too much to correct it.

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1 hour ago, Mefyrx said:

Simple

It is simple

Each skills required their obvious weapon type

 

The difference is that ranged light also contains grenades....and i see that now that i found some and ive decide to use melee

It's not that useful if the only weapon you have handy is a Ranged: Heavy, or Melee/Lighstaber type weapon.  Then it's pretty useless :P 

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Damage is primarily about overcoming Soak. Suppose two identical beginning characters with Soak 3 and 12 wounds shoot each other with blaster pistols doing a base of 5 damage. They hit 60% of the time, and have an average of 2 successes when they do hit. They will do an average of 2.4 points per turn (5+2-3) * 0.6 =2.4. They will therefore require about 5 turns (12/2.4) to reduce each other to 0 wounds.

Thy both switch to blaster rifles doing a base of 9 damage. Assuming the hit as often they will double the average damage they inflict  per turn (9+2-3) * 0.6 = 4.8 and require an average of 2.5 turns (12/4.8) to reduce each other to 0 wounds. 

The advantages of the pistol are that it is lower encumbrance, permitted more places, and easier to sneak into places it is not permitted. (It's also easier to hit with if you're quite close, and harder to hit with if you're far away, so that is situational).

 

Edited by pnewman15
clarify

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2 hours ago, Mefyrx said:

Simple

It is simple

Each skills required their obvious weapon type

 

The difference is that ranged light also contains grenades....and i see that now that i found some and ive decide to use melee

I prefer gunnery. Sniper Rifles, Automatic Heavy Personal Scale Weapons. Planetary Scale Weapons. You get quite a lot of variability via gunnery. The only downside? Expensive and Heavy to carry around. ?

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2 hours ago, Mefyrx said:

Simple

It is simple

Each skills required their obvious weapon type

 

The difference is that ranged light also contains grenades....and i see that now that i found some and ive decide to use melee

Useful is subjective somewhat. Versatile I would say yes.

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Grenades can be very effective as a primary weapon if you want to specialize in that direction. A Demolitionist/Gunslinger or Mercenary Soldier can be quite deadly, as I learned when I ran one in the PvP tournament on these boards. :)

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14 minutes ago, SavageBob said:

Grenades can be very effective as a primary weapon if you want to specialize in that direction. A Demolitionist/Gunslinger or Mercenary Soldier can be quite deadly, as I learned when I ran one in the PvP tournament on these boards. :)

It's also a very costly (in credits) character to play over the course of a campaign.

IIRC, it also is based upon using AP grenades against people. Of course, d/t how near-impervious Armor is in this game, it's not like these things can really do much to any but the lightest vehicle, so you might as well chuck shaped charges at people.

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The other thing about grenades is that they are one ENC a piece so if you have any other weapons and gear and aren't wandering around like European backpacker, you shouldn't be able to carry too many around on your PC. I know some ignore Encumbrance but it's there for a reason other than just being a nuisance. As the RAW says: Encumbrance doesn't strictly represent weight; it also represents mass, bulk, and how easy items are to carry. Arguably it also includes how easy or hard it is to access with a single Maneuver in Combat under fire. In any case grenades were given a value of 1 ENC for a reason, some of the reasons are just fluff like all SW grenades pictured are larger than our modern day equivalents and all have built in choices of timers and such. but also they are basically big, fat holo-signs pointing you out to every law enforcement, merc, gang thug, store clerk, etc. and of course any Imperial trooper that happens to be around, that you're not a decent galactic citizen.  Essentially Encumbrance is balancing mechanism, ignore it at your peril.

 

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3 hours ago, SavageBob said:

Grenades can be very effective as a primary weapon if you want to specialize in that direction. A Demolitionist/Gunslinger or Mercenary Soldier can be quite deadly, as I learned when I ran one in the PvP tournament on these boards. :)

He was a monster. He hurt me ?

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12 hours ago, FuriousGreg said:

The other thing about grenades is that they are one ENC a piece so if you have any other weapons and gear and aren't wandering around like European backpacker, you shouldn't be able to carry too many around on your PC. I know some ignore Encumbrance but it's there for a reason other than just being a nuisance. As the RAW says: Encumbrance doesn't strictly represent weight; it also represents mass, bulk, and how easy items are to carry. Arguably it also includes how easy or hard it is to access with a single Maneuver in Combat under fire. In any case grenades were given a value of 1 ENC for a reason, some of the reasons are just fluff like all SW grenades pictured are larger than our modern day equivalents and all have built in choices of timers and such. but also they are basically big, fat holo-signs pointing you out to every law enforcement, merc, gang thug, store clerk, etc. and of course any Imperial trooper that happens to be around, that you're not a decent galactic citizen.  Essentially Encumbrance is balancing mechanism, ignore it at your peril.

 

This is very true. A grenade-focused character would only really work in a more military-focused campaign (AOR, maybe, or a merc-themed EOTE game). The grenade guy would need a lot of encumbrance-enhancing gear, which would make him look like a soldier and limit his mobility in certain social situations, for sure. That or lots of ranks of Hidden Storage and gear that lets him weasel gear away, like cybernetics. It's a concept that can work and be quite effective, but it's not appropriate for a lot of games.

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I'm definitely in love with Ranged Light at this time, don't tell my wife.

Throwing Daggers, grenades, carbines with pistol grips, bolas, ascension guns. Don't forget your Utility Belt talent for those grenades!

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I'd say that in Ranged (Light) is most useful in that most of the ranged weapons that PCs are going to be carrying fall under that skill, be they grenades, heavy blaster pistols, standard blaster pistols, or even hold-out blasters.

True, the damage output of such weapons aren't as good as the majority of what you'll find in the Ranged (Heavy) or Gunnery categories, but then local authorities aren't going to get quite so ticked at your PCs strutting around with pistols on their hips or in a shoulder-rig than they would at PCs openly totting the SW equivalent of shotguns and assault rifles.  It's a similar question about why use a vibroknife when a lightsaber is the mechanically superior weapons, dealing far more damage per hit than a vibroknife could ever hope to manage?  Reason being that lightsabers tend to draw a lot of attention, and in GCW-era games can quite possibly pull the wrath of the notably Jedi-intolerant Imperial authorities down on your head, while a vibroknife typically doesn't.

I remember having a similarly-themed discussion with a player regarding the old Bounty Hunter template for WEG's D6 system (think it was 2e R&E) about why he'd ever need a holdout blaster when the template came with a blaster rifle.  My answer was that it was better to have a weaker back-up weapon for those instances where he didn't have his blaster rifle than to not have a back-up weapon at all.

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Ranged Light probably is the best, or rather most common, combat skill to have. If only because the weapons are easily acquired, plus won't draw the attention of the authorities, can easily be smuggled in somewhere, etc...

Grenades being semi-lackluster is a bit of an issue IMO, at least the weaker ones anyway. No serious bad guy is going to care much about a frag grenade, even though IRL a frag grenade is absurdly powerful.

truthfully, if I was to redesign frag and stun grenades, I would probably do something like this,

Frag Grenade: Ranged Light OR Brawl. Damage 10: Crit 3: Range Short: Price 100 credits: Rarity 4: Restricted, Limited Ammo 1, Blast 10

Stun Grenade: Ranged Light OR Brawl. Damage 10: Crit N/A: Range Short: Price 75 credits: Rarity 4: Limited Ammo 1, Blast 10, Stun damage, Disorientate.

I would add Brawl as an option for hurling Grenades since it makes sense that you could use your physical strength to hurl it. Up the damage of both stun and frag grenades so they have appropriate punch, including raising the Blast damage to match the basic damage of the weapon. To compensate, Frag grenades become a Restricted item and a little more expensive. Not particularly difficult to find or build yourself, but definitely a typically illegal item. Stun grenades on the other hand would remain non-restricted item since they are non-lethal.

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21 minutes ago, BadMotivator said:

Ranged Light probably is the best, or rather most common, combat skill to have. If only because the weapons are easily acquired, plus won't draw the attention of the authorities, can easily be smuggled in somewhere, etc...

Grenades being semi-lackluster is a bit of an issue IMO, at least the weaker ones anyway. No serious bad guy is going to care much about a frag grenade, even though IRL a frag grenade is absurdly powerful.

truthfully, if I was to redesign frag and stun grenades, I would probably do something like this,

Frag Grenade: Ranged Light OR Brawl. Damage 10: Crit 3: Range Short: Price 100 credits: Rarity 4: Restricted, Limited Ammo 1, Blast 10

Stun Grenade: Ranged Light OR Brawl. Damage 10: Crit N/A: Range Short: Price 75 credits: Rarity 4: Limited Ammo 1, Blast 10, Stun damage, Disorientate.

I would add Brawl as an option for hurling Grenades since it makes sense that you could use your physical strength to hurl it. Up the damage of both stun and frag grenades so they have appropriate punch, including raising the Blast damage to match the basic damage of the weapon. To compensate, Frag grenades become a Restricted item and a little more expensive. Not particularly difficult to find or build yourself, but definitely a typically illegal item. Stun grenades on the other hand would remain non-restricted item since they are non-lethal.

If anything, I would consider Athletics (also Brawn/physical strength-based) for throwing the grenade, but Brawl seems wrong to me.

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41 minutes ago, 2P51 said:

I embrace the concept of concise, but the game could stand to have a couple few skills added to it.

Would be great because from EotE, there would be interesting skill to add...not to say Lightsaber...

Although, my guess would be that they've done some math saying that for the number of experience point you gets, you need X number of skills....

Adding more skill, means that either the XP gets split across more skills and thus lowering specialization or if giving more XP, then a character could chose to specialize faster or go down a talent tree faster choosing to ignore the new skills...

This is why in the book, they were saying at some point that a GM could decide to add a skill, but doing so suggested to remove another from the list....remember reading something on that

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I'm familiar with design philosophies of the game but concerns about bloat are disingenuous since we're currently 100+ specs into the game. Given we have 6 combat skills, but only one for doing everything from winding a clock to building a droideka I think there's room for some additional granularity. 

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