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Koing907

I'm not thrilled with the idea of charges

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Charges or Force Points. The occasional use of Munitions in 1.0 was fine, but now a lot more cards have tokens to track useage. I'll wait to actually play to see how it goes, but I'm not looking forward to tracking so many charge effects.

Anyone who's actually played 2.0 (either GenCon or simulated) got any opinions on the use of charges and force tokens?

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I think they're fine. The vast majority just recharge in the end phase or don't recharge at all, so they're pretty easy to remember. My worry is that they'll add a bunch of things like Elusive that have specific recharge mechanics, as that could start to get hard to track if you had several in the same list.

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Since the charges are always tied to a specific card and also have an "inert" side that you can physically flip the charge to, tracking them is pretty simple (provided you can remember to just flip the charge when you use it, which is no more difficult than tracking shields or munitions from 1.0) 

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15 minutes ago, Koing907 said:

 Anyone who's actually played 2.0 (either GenCon or simulated) got any opinions on the use of charges and force tokens?

Learning how to balance charges & force charges is legitimately interesting. They are one of my favorite additions to the game because they make the game slightly more difficult and add another decision point that i can mess up. Also gives FFG a really great way to balance things that "bend" the rules a bit without strictly having to hit them with a point adjustment every time. Managing trade offs and some resources adds much needed depth. Instead of the old...watch me do xyz thing infinitely and not die routine etc. 

Though I can see how if they are overused things could become a little messy. For now though it plays very cleanly. 

Edited by Boom Owl

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The concept is desperately needed for once per turn or per game effects in terms of housekeeping. And now that munitions have the best of both worlds (buff to usage and nerf to power), the charges easily track that.

Also, flipping a charge on afterburners or collision detector feels as cool as ****.

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50 minutes ago, Koing907 said:

Charges or Force Points. The occasional use of Munitions in 1.0 was fine, but now a lot more cards have tokens to track useage. I'll wait to actually play to see how it goes, but I'm not looking forward to tracking so many charge effects.

Anyone who's actually played 2.0 (either GenCon or simulated) got any opinions on the use of charges and force tokens?

A charge is no difference from "once per round" abilities. Do you dislike those, too?

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22 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

VERY minor gripe I'd have is that recurring charges could have a different color token (same token, different color) to distinguish them 

But like...just use a highlighter, right?

Recurring charges have a flipped "used" side that's a different color, don't they?

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1 minute ago, JasonCole said:

Recurring charges have a flipped "used" side that's a different color, don't they?

I think he's talking the front side. 

If you have 5 assorted charged cards on your squad, a color distinction for quick recognition between recurring vs 1-time-use could be handy. 

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2 minutes ago, ViscerothSWG said:

I think he's talking the front side. 

If you have 5 assorted charged cards on your squad, a color distinction for quick recognition between recurring vs 1-time-use could be handy. 

I think the current tokens do that already. If they can't be recovered, discard them when used. If they can be recovered, flip them.

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8 minutes ago, Jike said:

I think the current tokens do that already. If they can't be recovered, discard them when used. If they can be recovered, flip them.

For sure, after use. But before you use any, they all look the same. Drawing the recharge arrow on the unused token face is a quick fix. Again, minor issue.

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10 minutes ago, Jike said:

I think the current tokens do that already. If they can't be recovered, discard them when used. If they can be recovered, flip them.

I thought nothing is discarded? That does not prevent you from doing it of course.

We often use sweets as shields - the one moment when regen tastes good! We will do so in the future, too, and nobody cares.

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charges are awesome. problem in 1.0 was a powerful missile like Harpoons gets two uses no matter the cost because of EM. If 1.0 had charges, they could limit them to 1 charge only, while homing missiles could have 2 charges.

recurring charges will be no different than remembering rebel regen, or rey crew focus, etc. You might forget at first, but after playing with the list/upgrade a few times it will be familiar.

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I dig them.  It makes more sense than having upgrades that you’re “discarding” by flipping upside down.  And many of the different card mechanics from v1 will now be consolidated into a single common mechanic.  An example being Stealth Device or Crackshot (same effect but now uses a charge token), Muntion Failsafe (stops expenditure of charge token), Extra Munitions (most ordnance has more than 1 charge now), once per turn abilities (Lone Wolf), etc.

 

The charges mechanic is IMO one of the best changes to X-Wing.  It consolidates a lot of excess rules bloat, and it will be a common enough feature that players will get used to it.

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Frankly, I'm over the moon for charges.

I still kinda feel Leia might be a little overpriced, but her 2e design is so much nicer.  She went from "discard for it to happen once" to "spend 3 charges to turn all red maneuvers white" for a turn.  The fact that she now recharges over three turns is a lot nicer.  Not always going to be super-strong (Oh! Her riding the U-Wing in a Two-Tubes list...  Stall Benthic, K-Turn Edrio, both white... probably still too pricey, but cool concept), but she's a lot more credible than a fleet-wide Adrenaline Rush.  Between Leia and Dace Bonearm, there's potential for future design where, say, a cannon needs to charge up for three turns between uses.  I think that's a cool design space to open up.

Meanwhile, something like Elusive is a really nifty design.  It's got an unusual trigger to recharge, so it just gets a lot more interesting.  This too adds a lot of options to design space.  I'm kinda glad 1e Oicunn is gone.  Boo on auto-damage.  However, suppose you wanted to create a similar effect now.  I'd make it a single-charge ability, "when you overlap an enemy ship, you may spend 1 charge to deal 1 hit damage" or such, but I'd also add "Regain a charge when you fully execute a maneuver."  So no more chain-bumps into damage.  You get one the first time, and then have to move and not hit anything in order to get the charge back.

Lastly, missiles and torpedos natively mostly having multiple charges makes a lot of sense.  The best example is probably that 4-Dice Ion Torpedoes have 2 charges, but 3-dice Ion Missiles have 3 charges.  The difference between the two cards is a lot more interesting.  Torpedos have a much higher chance of hitting, and a higher likely amount of ion tokens, but can only be used twice.  Missiles are harder to hit with, and inflict fewer Ion tokens when they do hit, but they're cheaper and have more charges.  Just a much healthier design difference there, contrasting with the 1e equivalents.

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1 hour ago, GreenDragoon said:

A charge is no difference from "once per round" abilities. Do you dislike those, too?

Kinda sorta. Some "once per round" abilities are easier to track than others. Some, I use tokens placed next to the ship to mark that I have used it. I often put a tracking token next to Quickdraw, for example. I don't dislike it, I choose to use the tracking token to make sure I don't accidentally attempt to use the ability twice.

Now, with so many abilities sharing the charge token system, I'm concerned about clutter on the cards, that the tokens are identical, and all will be placed next to each other. 

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Don't forget that every token is flipped over when used.  Shields are like that now, too.  Even if you don't have R2, you still have your flipped red shield marker flipped.   Flipping tokens is part of 2.0 with or without charges.

Also, not all charges replenish. 

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Charge utilization, and the cognitive process resulting from managing it, is going to be one of those things competitively that distinguishes more talented and focused players in the early stages of 2.0. Just my take on it. Love them, as like with configurations it makes me feel like I'm managing more than just a dial. 

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