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Jmanawesmazing

Take Downs

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HI, I have a question about Take Downs. So weapons with Stun have a stun value right and if you hit someone with stun it effects there Strain. So if that stun value is 4 than that is not enough to incapacitate them. so whats the point to having a stun weapon? Also, with bare handed take downs do you preform a Stealth than Brawl check? And even then would it incapacitate then?

Sorry if I sound confusing I can't find any different ways to say this,

Thank You   

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Stun X is in addition to any damage that is done with the attack. If you use a weapon with, say, 6 damage and Stun 4, you do 6 wound damage and they suffer 4 strain. Note that damage is reduced by soak but if you suffer strain or wounds it bypasses soak.

So you just dealt 7+ damage (minimum of +1 for one cancelled success) that is reduced by soak and they suffer an additional 4 strain. If they are a minion or a rival, they don't have a strain threshold and thus it's added to their wounds—again, no soak against that. So it's 7 damage minus soak +4 from the Stun quality.

22 minutes ago, Jmanawesmazing said:

Also, with bare handed take downs do you preform a Stealth than Brawl check? And even then would it incapacitate then?

I'm not sure what you mean by "take down". As in knocking them out? That's just a Brawl combat check doing Stun Damage. Once you exceed their ST/WT (depending on nemesis or minion/rival) they are knocked out.

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I suspect the point is for game balance. If stun weapons could incapacitate with a single hit, then it would make them far and away the superior weaponry.

To further cement this reasoning, keep in mind the age old adage "Anything a PC can do, the NPC can do better". If stun weapons could one-shot a target, your opponents could just as easily use that tactic on you and your group.

To your second question, there's no hard-and-fast rule. And how it's handled will ultimately be up to your GM. Personally, I rarely split a single turn in to multiple checks. I feel it really skews the balance of the dice. In other words, I don't want my players attempting to make trivial checks as maneuvers or incidentals, just to net advantage and triumphs to use on their action. On my table, I would handle it with a single stealth check. Success means the target didn't see or hear you and you successfully incapacitate the target. Threat would mean that you or the target made some amount of noise so anyone in the vicinity might of heard you.

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This is one of those things that pushes the boundaries of raw mechanics in almost any system, but you can do it. After all, if you can do it in the Movies there's usually a way to do it here.

So yes, you'd make a Stealth Check to sneak up on the target, then make an attack. Thing is... the target will usually be a minion (after all greasing Darth Vader with a takedown just ain't right... grappling him maybe, but not a KO or kill). So, you make your attack, and if you do enough damage and/or Crit... Bang, Minion removed from play, takedown successful. Rivals are going to prove more difficult due to their higher WT and the fact they take Crits, so it might take 2 attacks instead of 1, but again, it's possible.

Using weapons that provide a bonus makes it more likely either one of those results will occur, though opponents with high Soak may prove more difficult and/or require weapons tailored to them. Bare hands (Brawn, Crit 5) on a Stormtrooper's 5 Soak is gonna be tricky, a Vibro-knife (+1 Damage, Pierce 2, Crit 2) is a better option.

Now... catch is the GM also can't be a knucklehead about it. Executing a stealth takedown should be tricky, and not every situation will allow it, but the GM should do things to allow it when appropriate. Little things, like putting the sentries at short range from each other instead of engaged, ungrouping those minions, and so on will need to be done to allow the player the ability to do a takedown without getting detected.

But yeah, you can do a takedown, it's just not easy, has to be in the right conditions, and in an encounter structured as a stealth encounter that also allows killing/KOs.

If you want I can layout such an encounter and walk you through it.

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There is a cool gadget in the Endless Vigil book, it's a palm stunner that uses a characters Skullduggery to make an attack against a target and deals a high amount of strain to their threshold. The description mentions it not being effective outside of combat, so it's not as game breaking as Pressure Point but still gives that great Knock-Out effect you want.

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