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PinnacleOfJimbo

What is the point of this game being "unique"?

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It makes a certain amount of sense with Keyforge, because the idea there is that you will buy multiple copies, or multiple decks. The price point of a single unit of Keyforge is very low.

This is a $60 game. Am I supposed to buy more than one copy? What value is there in it being "randomized" if I only need one copy to play, and I'm not likely to buy another copy?

I guess either I'm missing something, or "unique" is just a gimmick FFG is trying out.

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Keyforge was Garfield's vision, perhaps this is FFGs actual exploration with the idea.  Otherwise, my takeaway is that this is supposed to have the same feeling of Legacy game, without destroying/permanently altering the components.  That makes it replayable, while a Legacy game is not.

So, play your own copy and then try your friend's?

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This whole "Random $60 Board Game" gimmick isn't sitting well with me at all.  It's why I left Magic: the Gathering and picked up NetRunner, LOTR and now Arkham Horror.  Part of it is 'having all the components', the other part is just I hate not knowing what I'm handing a company $60 for.  It's like going into a Restaurant and saying "I'll have the $30 Meat plate" and hoping for the T-Bone and dreading the sliders.

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I mean, the same thing could be accomplished with a game that simply has all the components in one box, with instructions for how to randomly choose them for each game.

I guess this does that for you, but it also means that you have to buy multiple copies to get that experience.

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7 minutes ago, ElderKoala said:

This whole "Random $60 Board Game" gimmick isn't sitting well with me at all.  It's why I left Magic: the Gathering and picked up NetRunner, LOTR and now Arkham Horror.  Part of it is 'having all the components', the other part is just I hate not knowing what I'm handing a company $60 for.  It's like going into a Restaurant and saying "I'll have the $30 Meat plate" and hoping for the T-Bone and dreading the sliders.

Fair point, although I would counter the wording by saying that it isn't a "Random $60 Board Game" but rather a "$60 Board Game that's Random".:)  The nuance being that you know what the game is, just not its specific experience.

I would also point out that is almost exactly what kickstarting is like.

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I think the full number of components for this game in a single box would easily cost 200 or more.

Besides you can do stuff in Keyforge in Magic via players on their own.

What these games do is make it easier for players.

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1 minute ago, Radix2309 said:

I think the full number of components for this game in a single box would easily cost 200 or more.

Besides you can do stuff in Keyforge in Magic via players on their own.

What these games do is make it easier for players.

Unless you have some insider information, that is pure speculation. The cost of a copy of this game with every single component could be as low as $60 or into the thousands. We don't have that information.

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1 minute ago, PinnacleOfJimbo said:

Unless you have some insider information, that is pure speculation. The cost of a copy of this game with every single component could be as low as $60 or into the thousands. We don't have that information.

Well with $60 for only one set of tiles, survivors etc... it would definitely add up. 

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1 minute ago, DrDevidents said:

Well with $60 for only one set of tiles, survivors etc... it would definitely add up. 

That is assuming that each copy has none of the same components as any other copy. More likely this game is like keyforge in that the exact combination of components you get will be unique, meaning it is very likely that at least some of the components in my copy are the same as the ones in yours...

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Alright, so this is just my intuition, but I think it's a different take on Legacy games.

With something like Pandemic Legacy, every game ends up being different because of the actions taken and their permanence. No two groups end up playing the same game, and will have had totally different experiences.

I think that's the goal, here, too - not that you will go out and buy multiple copies (unless you would also do the same thing to replay Pandemic over and over), but that your group will have a totally different and unique experience from another group, without the trappings that legacy games introduce. You can replay your copy over and over, if you want, which isn't true for legacies (barring sometimes extensive customization).

But legacy games often revolve around surprise, lack of knowledge, and the idea of not knowing what's ahead until you - permanently - open the package, make the decision, etc. Doing a unique instead means you can play your friend's copy of the game, and unlike a legacy, it'll still be 100% (or, like, 95%) new to you. Whereas an experienced player of Pandemic knows approximately what's coming, and some of the surprise is gone.

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Again the assumption that it will be 95% new is a tough pill to swallow. Unless there are just an insane number of possible components, I'm willing to bet that the two copies will be more similar than you're imagining.

From the previews it looks like we might see different terrain types, so you might get a snow map and I get a desert map. But what if both of our copies are the desert map?
 

I'd love to be pleasantly surprised but I don't think I will be. I love the idea in theory, I'm just not at all convinced that each experience will be as unique as people are hoping.

Again, we know so little.

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Personally I don't see the point of a random board game other than to convince board gaming groups that there's reason to buy multiple copies. It's a way of making the game "expandable" or "collectible" without actually introducing expansions and keeping that $60 price for every copy. In my gaming group, we try to buy new games each time, so the variety is vast and there's minimal duplicate games (only one I can think of is Smash-Up and I stopped buying expansions for it when the others bought all of them). If the components and theme is different but it has the same rules and generally plays the same, I think maybe one of us would get the game at best, because at its core, it's still the same game.

 

I'd personally be happy with a game that handled a few different scenarios and had an adjustable difficulty, like Flashpoint: Fire Rescue. I have played that game numerous times with only the core game and it's always been satisfying (except for that one time a dude picked the captain and intentionally moved other players away from the fire with the captain's ability so we'd all lose *shakes fist at the sky*).

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So is this legacy AND unique? Or just unique?  I.e. does your copy keep its replayability after you finish it?

Are people going to be like -- I had a *realllly* good copy of Discover, and I'm selling it now that we're finished.  Who wants this awesome configuration?

 

 

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Just now, PinnacleOfJimbo said:

I'd love to be pleasantly surprised but I don't think I will be. I love the idea in theory, I'm just not at all convinced that each experience will be as unique as people are hoping.

Sure - but what's the downside?

Unless you normally scour reviews of board games for the exact text of every card and character within, you could buy this completely ignoring that it's unique.

The details they're putting out will be a bit limited maybe, but there's no reason it won't be completely obvious how the game plays and whether you're interested in the mechanics. Then you play your friends copy and it's a bit different and new.

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29 minutes ago, PinnacleOfJimbo said:

That is assuming that each copy has none of the same components as any other copy. More likely this game is like keyforge in that the exact combination of components you get will be unique, meaning it is very likely that at least some of the components in my copy are the same as the ones in yours...

Well of course some will be the same. But you probably have dozens of characters, multiple map biomes, multiple scenarios, etc. If 1 copy costs 60, the full set of 3-5 different archetypes would easily be 20p.

Obviously there will be copies that are similar with desert tiles, But they will have different characters and scenarios.

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I'm sure there's a part of me that is resisting this for the same reason Keyforge seems strange... it doesn't let me tap into my collector side.

Normally for a game I enjoy I'll buy every expansion and promo - I know I'm not alone there - to have all the possible options. The "complete" game.

This game won't let you do that - even if you bought multiple copies you most likely wouldn't come close to having all the possible components.

 

It's possible that this whole "unique" thing will really shake up the board game world, making board games/card games into more of a commodity than a collectible item.  I think it's more likely, however, that this will remain a curiosity - at best it will have the effect that legacy games had. They will be exciting and some people will be into them, but for the most part they will leave the landscape of gaming unaffected. 

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I was instantly attracted to this game.  The art, the concept, it all looked solid.  I was about ready to put this in my wish list to pick up at first chance....but then I read the unique part.  WTF?

It's a board game.  There is no purpose to it being unique from any other copy.  The placement of tiles, the deck of events, that is what makes each time you play it a unique experience.  Not the fact that my copy has different tiles than yours.  I don't want this...at all.  Every time I'd pull this box off the shelf, instead of wondering what is going to happen this time, I'm going to be wondering if I might have a better play experience with a different set of tiles that someone else purchased.  Inevitably you will find this to be true.  There will be stories out there that talk about how they loved playing this game at their friend's house, so they bought a copy and are disappointed by the different tile set they got, or that their favorite character wasn't there, or that they seem to have more negative events, etc. 

The worst part is that FFG birthed the idea of LCGs!  They saw the problems of blind draw type games and created a new system that gave everyone equal footing.  Everyone got the same cards to develop their decks around.  This Unique Game concept defies that in all the wrong ways.

Put all the possibilities in every copy, and give us a way to pull out sets of events, or reduce the amount of tiles you use.  Charge me $10-20 more and I'm way happier than a cheaper, random game that is 'unique' from other copies.

I'm out, but I thank FFG for getting me interested in survival type games.  Hadn't even looked at anything like that.  Now I have some research to do.

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In an era where kickstarters have bananas stretch goals designed solely to tempt collectors or people who struggle with FOMO, there’s something compelling about a major publisher taking some efforts and no small amount of risk to make games that cannot be subject to the same compulsions.

As someone who has for sure backed kickstarters to the tune of more money than I’d be compelled to if I was sure I’d see it in the shops eventually, I think there’s enough room in the hobby for both approaches.

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3 minutes ago, PinnacleOfJimbo said:

I'm sure there's a part of me that is resisting this for the same reason Keyforge seems strange... it doesn't let me tap into my collector side.

Normally for a game I enjoy I'll buy every expansion and promo - I know I'm not alone there - to have all the possible options. The "complete" game.

This game won't let you do that - even if you bought multiple copies you most likely wouldn't come close to having all the possible components.

 

It's possible that this whole "unique" thing will really shake up the board game world, making board games/card games into more of a commodity than a collectible item.  I think it's more likely, however, that this will remain a curiosity - at best it will have the effect that legacy games had. They will be exciting and some people will be into them, but for the most part they will leave the landscape of gaming unaffected. 

Most boardgamers I know are completionists.  They buy expansions for games even if they don't play it often.  Heck, I know some people that won't even touch a kickstarter game (after the campaign) that had exclusive bonuses for supporters because they know they won't have those exclusives and will feel like somehow their game is less than perfect.  While this unique concept might work in a card game like Keyforge, and it might work as a casual game sold on a shelf at Target, It just feels like it's aimed at the wrong people in this case.

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When I was a kid, I was the player popping 7 Leviathans before I ever saw Force of Will.  (Different sets, I know, but you get the idea.)  I do not like randomized games.  It drove me away from WoTC RPGs, out of MTG, etc etc.  I like to know if I hand you $X I get Y in product.  I also like collect-ability that also has replay-ability.  I don't mind Legacy as long as the game has some decent table time built in.  (Charterstone, Pandemic, etc.)  If I go in knowing a game is Legacy, it's got the base and 4 expansions, I'm perfectly okay.   This UNIQUE thing?  I dunno.. I'm trying to like it but I've got 2 major stumbling blocks.  1.  I own 7th Continent.  2.  I keep hearing Brad Pitt's line from Seven.  "What's in the box?!  WHAT'S IN THE BOOXXXXXX????"

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