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Boom Owl

Star Wars Imperial Tactics: Whisper

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8 minutes ago, SOTL said:

Not stacking a free 'recloak to use my fancy bendy decloak template' token like Whisper gets makes Echo much much worse.

You get one from decloaking. Sure, if you have to spend it you do, but whether or not you actually need to spend it is a decision you can make. 1-banks make the dial a lot better than it was, and not getting shot in the first place is the best defense. It isn't necessary to decloak every single turn, and sometimes its better not to have to. Every game there is at least one time that I decline to cloak at end of turn because the decloak options don't benefit me.

 

4 minutes ago, Vineheart01 said:

Dont need the recloak token if you are in a position where you cant be at risk to spend the one you already have from decloaking.

Exactly!

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heck if anything i think Whisper got the nerfbat by comparison.

Focus changed to an Evade, which would be a nice buff if evade didnt get nerfed.

They are going to be 2die defense unless they didnt decloak. An evade token is nowhere near as useful on 2die ships as it was in 1.0. Her ability does nothing unless shes in a position to get shot at, and with 2agi its very likely they'll take damage if shot at. So Echo wins because pinning her down is ludicrously difficult.

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I have a question for all of you: how often do you want to cloak/decloak? Should you try to every turn, or should you leave it for important moments?

For non-Whispers, cloak is like intensity in 1.0 as it just carries a token into the next round. As for Whisper, the on-hit benefit is only indirectly connected to cloaking itself.

In my opinion cloaking and decloak reposition is in principle a benefit and at worst has no positive effect, so you always should do it.

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1 minute ago, Vineheart01 said:

heck if anything i think Whisper got the nerfbat by comparison.

Focus changed to an Evade, which would be a nice buff if evade didnt get nerfed.

They are going to be 2die defense unless they didnt decloak. An evade token is nowhere near as useful on 2die ships as it was in 1.0. Her ability does nothing unless shes in a position to get shot at, and with 2agi its very likely they'll take damage if shot at. So Echo wins because pinning her down is ludicrously difficult.

Except you missed the part where the new stygium lets you "gain a cloak token" in the end phase by spending an evade. Having that second evade from an attack that hits lets you spend one evade if you're under fire while *still* having an evade to spend to recloak ***even while stressed***. So iirc, new whisper lets you uncloak and perform that free evade action. You could then reveal a k turn and attack. If it hits, you still get to assign the evade token (its assign, not an action), then spend it later to recloak.

I'm thinking Whisper + Juke +Kallus + advanced sensors is gonna be pretty **** cool. 

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Except i didnt miss that part. Nowhere did i mention using 2 tokens, i spoke of keeping the evade token.

You get a free evade action for decloaking regardless of who the pilot is. Whisper gives you a second token if you hit that allows you to spend one and still cloak.

Yes you can spend the evade while stressed to cloak, guess what you cant do though? get the evade while stressed after you decloak. Yes this is a mark for Whisper because she can still get the token later on w/o it being an action, but that also restricts your dial a turn to blues to get rid of that stress.
Echo still evades arcs vastly better without the use of red maneuvers. Thats the point. The entirety of 1.0 the only things that beat my Echo was the very thing that is dead in 2.0 - PWTs at PS9, since they cannot be evaded.

Whisper is much easier to pin down. Thats the issue.

Edited by Vineheart01

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All that being said, I'm going to try this out at least once or twice...

 

They Were Inverted (200)

"Whisper" — TIE Phantom 52
Juke 4
Advanced Sensors 8
Seventh Sister 12
Ship Total: 76
   
"Echo" — TIE Phantom 50
Juke 4
Fire-Control System 3
Director Krennic 5
Ship Total: 62
   
Major Vermeil — TIE Reaper 49
Emperor Palpatine 13
Ship Total: 62
 

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1 hour ago, GreenDragoon said:

I have a question for all of you: how often do you want to cloak/decloak? Should you try to every turn, or should you leave it for important moments?

For non-Whispers, cloak is like intensity in 1.0 as it just carries a token into the next round. As for Whisper, the on-hit benefit is only indirectly connected to cloaking itself.

In my opinion cloaking and decloak reposition is in principle a benefit and at worst has no positive effect, so you always should do it.

I'd say in general in a 10 turn game 9 of those turns I'm likely wanting to be decloaking, especially for the free evade action. That being said, Echo is a lot harder to keep in your sights so she should be getting shot at less than Whisper while simultaneously having a much easier time keeping her own guns on target. The actual number of times Whisper will get to spend her first evade to negate a damage and still get to cloak (where Echo would not) because of the ability will fluctuate depending on the game, but probably won't be a huge amount.

1 hour ago, JasonCole said:

Except you missed the part where the new stygium lets you "gain a cloak token" in the end phase by spending an evade. Having that second evade from an attack that hits lets you spend one evade if you're under fire while *still* having an evade to spend to recloak ***even while stressed***. So iirc, new whisper lets you uncloak and perform that free evade action. You could then reveal a k turn and attack. If it hits, you still get to assign the evade token (its assign, not an action), then spend it later to recloak.

I'm thinking Whisper + Juke +Kallus + advanced sensors is gonna be pretty **** cool. 

Whisper is better with the K-turns for sure, but Echo can pretty much turn around without stressing at all, having the evade+focus instead of evade+evade.

Don't get me wrong, I love Whisper and think she's still awesome, but I'd rather fly Echo if I'm picking between the two right now. Time might change that (depends on how quickly 2.0 falls into the Initiative Wars again) but this early in playing I'm on the Echo train. If we ignore the half base forward/backward adjustments Whisper has 3 available locations to decloak to, where Echo has 6, where 4 of those combined with a hard turn allows her to turn 135 degrees and still technically shoot directly backwards along the edge of her firing arc without stressing. 

I guess the way I see it, Phantoms went from risky glass cannon aces that relied on green dice to pocket aces that aren't the center of a list anymore. I don't think Whisper got nerfed, I just think this transition was a much larger benefit to Echo. 

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Meh, Whisper at I 5 and the fact that you're playing against a human being and not a wide claim that Echo is "hard to pin down" makes her the more reliable ace

1v1 (easily achieved with cloak manueverability) that extra Evade is a lifesafer. 

Otherwise, Whisper is also only 2 more points...which is nuts. 

Honestly, though, you should just fly both. Phantoms are all incredible now and there really is no need to stick to just one. Rather than "pocket ace" or w.e, just think of them as better Xwings (which is basically what they are)

Edited by ficklegreendice

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3 hours ago, Micanthropyre said:

this transition was a much larger benefit to Echo. 

This seems to sum up the comparison to me. Whisper got better but Echo got more betterer. 

Not to say that Echo is now better than Whisper but perhaps the gap is smaller. So if you're more of an Echo person, maybe you're a little fuller of glee.

They're both ridiculously cool now anyway.

Incidentally, on the Fly Casual sim last night,  3 TIE Bombers with Proton Bombs and 2 Sigmas with Predator (it doesn't have Juke as yet), was an absolutely enormous barrel of fun. Phantoms that aren't being shot at are all the goodness. 

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22 minutes ago, Cuz05 said:

This seems to sum up the comparison to me. Whisper got better but Echo got more betterer. 

Not to say that Echo is now better than Whisper but perhaps the gap is smaller. So if you're more of an Echo person, maybe you're a little fuller of glee.

They're both ridiculously cool now anyway.

Incidentally, on the Fly Casual sim last night,  3 TIE Bombers with Proton Bombs and 2 Sigmas with Predator (it doesn't have Juke as yet), was an absolutely enormous barrel of fun. Phantoms that aren't being shot at are all the goodness. 

You can also do two bombers with rockets and proton bombs, along with sloane juke whisper and juke echo at 198 points. I might give it a whirl.

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11 hours ago, ficklegreendice said:

Meh, Whisper at I 5 and the fact that you're playing against a human being and not a wide claim that Echo is "hard to pin down" makes her the more reliable ace

1v1 (easily achieved with cloak manueverability) that extra Evade is a lifesafer. 

Otherwise, Whisper is also only 2 more points...which is nuts. 

Agreed - Whisper is the better pilot. But, its a choice between Echo with Juke, or Whisper without, because if you spend the 2 points for Whisper, you've only got 2 left with the four strikers in the squad.

Juke Echo & Whisper with.....I dunno - Predator? - are rather closer matches.

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13 hours ago, ficklegreendice said:

Meh, Whisper at I 5 and the fact that you're playing against a human being and not a wide claim that Echo is "hard to pin down" makes her the more reliable ace

1v1 (easily achieved with cloak manueverability) that extra Evade is a lifesafer. 

Otherwise, Whisper is also only 2 more points...which is nuts. 

Honestly, though, you should just fly both. Phantoms are all incredible now and there really is no need to stick to just one. Rather than "pocket ace" or w.e, just think of them as better Xwings (which is basically what they are)

I agree on flying both. If it really must be a single Phantom then Whisper seems so much better and it really is the tiny difference in points that nails it for me.

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Played Juke Whisper last night.  It was the first time I flew a phantom in...years?  What a fun little ship for the price.  It took me 3 or 4 turns of combat to sort of "get it" with way cloaking and evade management work on the 2.0 version.  But once I did she was a pest to nail down and when often rocking a focus and double evades was even harder to put damage into.  I had her paired up with Rexler and Deathrain and those two ships drew all of the enemy attention while Whisper did all of the real work.  She pretty much solo'd a list (or at least did enough damage to win the half point MOV game for me) on her own.

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