Replacing MTG for middle class casuals

[haonthegreat 5]

The model behind Keyforge is about as perfect as you can get for couples who like to play games casually. My wife and I got into magic a while ago using their Duel Decks, but grew pretty disenchanted at the cost and blatant lack of balance.  We don't have funds to buy singles and make our cool decks.  Booster packs and prerelease\release events are fun, but they get pricey fast. 

 

And don't even get me started on how insane the LCG model is for a family with a budget. 

 

Keyforge seems to be a perfect fit for those of us in the middle class. $10 for a deck is a sweet, sweet spot. I can't see this taking off professionally or anything, but I think Keyforge might be tapping a pretty big market. 

Edited August 10, 2018 by haonthegreat

[KeyNote 0]

I'm right there with you.

My wife and I ran into a similar issue when trying to play Magic together.

One of the allures of KeyForge is the Special Snowflake aspect of the decks. Her deck is uniquely hers and my deck is uniquely mine. Plus, at $20 bucks for two decks it's cheaper than a movie and you can absolutely get more than 2 hours of enjoyment out of it.

[MrMenthe 192]

Yeah. This product seems to be perfect as an entry for non cardgame players or as a casual fun and light game on the side for cardgame players... And a good middle ground between both group.

My girlfriends played pokemon casually before meeting me and we tried to find a game that could be fun to play together since then... Without much success (either it rewards skill a lot and she loses too much or it is too random and it frustrates me).

I hope this is the game ! 

Edited August 11, 2018 by MrMenthe

[thereisnotry 923]

Yeah, I could easily see my whole family (myself, my wife, and 4 kids) playing casual round-robin tournaments of Keyforge together.  We've often done this with Dice Masters and other games in the past, and it's always been a great time!  So yes, I have no doubt that Keyforge will be a massive hit for us.

[qwertyuiop 591]

I have a family. We have a budget. I somehow managed to afford both LCGs and food when I used to play LCGS...or eat.   I guess it depends on what you consider is acceptable for annual game expenditures.  

Keyforge does have a lower entry point, but like other CCGs, it has a high spending ceiling for those with more money than sense or self control   I'll probably cap out at $100, and then more if there are future "sets". Deckbuilding is my favorite part of CCGs, but the simplicity of preconstructed decks is gonna go over better with the wife than handing her some Rube Goldberg deck.

[Lace Jetstreamer 240]

I have a family and we do not play gambling games.  I was made aware of this due to the SW: BF2 controversy and have rid my family of all gambling loot box / blind box gaming.  My family is way better for it too.  For those that want to read up on the negative health effects that gambling has on children, see: http://knowtheodds.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/NYCPG_ebook_YouthGambling_052114.pdf

There are plenty of great games that do not use Gambling to sell product.

[Amanal 2,555]

1 hour ago, Lace Jetstreamer said:

There are plenty of great games that do not use Gambling to sell product.

So you draw the line on the sales model and don't care about games that for the most part mimic gambling activities or can be wagered on?

[Lace Jetstreamer 240]

6 minutes ago, Amanal said:

So you draw the line on the sales model and don't care about games that for the most part mimic gambling activities or can be wagered on?

Strawman argument.  I never made this statement.  If you care to actually ask me a question instead of making a statement in form of a question, please do so.

[Amanal 2,555]

So I didn't quote you because you didn't make that statement?

[Lace Jetstreamer 240]

2 minutes ago, Amanal said:

So I didn't quote you because you didn't make that statement?

I didn't make the statement:

15 minutes ago, Amanal said:

So you draw the line on the sales model and don't care about games that for the most part mimic gambling activities or can be wagered on?

Here is your statement

'don't care about games that for the most part mimic gambling activities or can be wagered on?'

Here is what I originally wrote:

1 hour ago, Lace Jetstreamer said:

I have a family and we do not play gambling games.  I was made aware of this due to the SW: BF2 controversy and have rid my family of all gambling loot box / blind box gaming.  My family is way better for it too.  For those that want to read up on the negative health effects that gambling has on children, see: http://knowtheodds.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/NYCPG_ebook_YouthGambling_052114.pdf

There are plenty of great games that do not use Gambling to sell product.

Let me highlight the very first sentence in my statement.

Quote

I have a family and we do not play gambling games.

So no, you didn't quote anything in my posts that says I allow my family to play games with gambling in them.

[Amanal 2,555]

So if you don't play games with an element of gambling in them what do you play? I can't imagine there are many games without some element of chance that doesn't derive the play of the game from an element that wouldn't resemble a gambling game or a game that has people wager on the outcome. In fact your pdf asks several times are they playing cards or dice, clearly making any game with a card or dice element a form of gateway to gambling or gambling itself.

I can't think of a single game made by any company that doesn't include a card or a dice somewhere.

[RedMageStatscowski 117]

I think he only plays chess.  Besides, I don't think anyone would wager money on the results of a KeyForge game, so luck-based sure, but gambling certainly not.

[Derrault 1,084]

42 minutes ago, RedMageStatscowski said:

I think he only plays chess.  Besides, I don't think anyone would wager money on the results of a KeyForge game, so luck-based sure, but gambling certainly not.

News flash: Chess is riddled with gambles. (What do you think the Queen’s Gambit is?)

That being said, gambles aren’t the same thing as gambling, there’s zero chance for money to change hands in either direction, a basic prerequisite to call an activity gambling.

 

[RedMageStatscowski 117]

1 minute ago, Derrault said:

News flash: Chess is riddled with gambles. (What do you think the Queen’s Gambit is?)

That being said, gambles aren’t the same thing as gambling, there’s zero chance for money to change hands in either direction, a basic prerequisite to call an activity gambling.

 

I think Lace is thinking that the act of a customer handing over money to a shop clerk in exchange for an unknown deck is gambling, even though the customer gets exactly what they paid for: a deck.

Personally, as a TCG veteran (Pokemon, YuGiOh, Magic, and currently Vanguard), I love this cheaper way to enjoy card games, and would never call this gambling.  If I get a deck that seems 'stronger' (very unlikely, but admittedly always a possibility), there is the chain mechanic that'll help, so I don't have to simply buy more decks to balance my collection.

[Amanal 2,555]

1 hour ago, RedMageStatscowski said:

I think he only plays chess.  Besides, I don't think anyone would wager money on the results of a KeyForge game, so luck-based sure, but gambling certainly not.

 

Name me one game that doesn't include cards or dice on this site.

I get "Hey that's my Fish".

 

 

[TylerTT 1,295]

Don’t feed the troll.

[Robin Graves 6,054]

18 hours ago, RedMageStatscowski said:

I think he only plays chess. 

I got money on Deep Blue!

 

[qwertyuiop 591]

I gamble every day I choose to drag myself out of bed and face this cruel, hollow world instead of remaining under the covers with the curtains drawn.

[ScummyRebel 5,291]

I’ve made too many past mistakes in my younger years on card games (tech/ccg) to ever get sucked back into one again....

...until now.

Paying $10 for a game, or $20 if I have to provide a loaner? Sounds way better than untold $ to maybe build something.

If some of my gaming friends are up for it, we may do a everybody buy a sealed deck, open it at game night, and game on.

[ozmodon 535]

I'm very interested in  this after sinking around $400 every time a new Destiny set comes out.

[timhodge 14]

I don’t think we need to spend too much time rehashing what went on in That Other Thread, but to come back to the original question of this thread, I agree they Keyforge will be excellent for casual players. For one low standard price, they can walk out of their FLGS with one complete Keyforge deck, which is exactly what the box says they’ll get. The level of “gambling” here is startlingly low for a modern card game.  

[Derrault 1,084]

5 hours ago, ScummyRebel said:

I’ve made too many past mistakes in my younger years on card games (tech/ccg) to ever get sucked back into one again....

...until now.

Paying $10 for a game, or $20 if I have to provide a loaner? Sounds way better than untold $ to maybe build something.

If some of my gaming friends are up for it, we may do a everybody buy a sealed deck, open it at game night, and game on.

Costs are about comparable to (aka cheaper than) going to see a movie, so as long as I get ~2 hours entertainment it’d be well worth the price of entry. 

[ScummyRebel 5,291]

5 hours ago, Derrault said:

Costs are about comparable to (aka cheaper than) going to see a movie, so as long as I get ~2 hours entertainment it’d be well worth the price of entry. 

Fair comparison, although I rarely go to the movies anymore so my standard may be a tad higher for the game  

Though I do think that this one will be able to easily meet the value. $10 for a game is solid when I’m used to popping $15-20 for a single game piece (xwing), though that’s comparing apples to oranges here.

[Amanal 2,555]

5 hours ago, Derrault said:

Costs are about comparable to (aka cheaper than) going to see a movie, so as long as I get ~2 hours entertainment it’d be well worth the price of entry. 

Wanna bet it's cheaper than a trip to the Casino.

[Robin Graves 6,054]

12 hours ago, Amanal said:

Wanna bet it's cheaper than a trip to the Casino.

As long as you keep your losses under 10$...

 

Edited August 15, 2018 by Robin Graves