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Rise of the Separatists Era Book

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1 hour ago, immortalfrieza said:

This is pretty much exactly who Count Dooku was in everything outside the prequel movies. In Legends Dooku is actually a deeply principled man, entirely sincere about wanting to build a better galaxy. A lot of the Jedi who do end up switching sides do so because they actually agree that the Republic is a failure, but all of them go straight off to the Dark Side. We could have had what was effectively a Separatist Jedi Order going up against the Republic Jedi Order but instead we ended up with "BWAHAHAHAHA!!!" evil villains and it was a wasted opportunity.

I'm hoping that supplements like this give players the opportunity to put things in a different light, since the Separatists have legitimate reason to want to break away from the Republic, it's just the tendency to turn most notable Separatists into generic evil overlords that makes them the bad guys.

I always thought that the Seppies were intentionally generically evil bad guys to make the Republic and the rest of the galaxy scared, and the guy running the CIS was deliberately getting the most greedy, sociopathic, and outright bloodthirsty people into the upper levels in order to frighten the common people. Making it so that stories about the horrors of war stick out more "Although Seperatist forces under the command of Commerce Guild have respected the ceasefire, civilians have still been suffering in the besieged areas" VS "The Droid Army slaughtered another refugee center on Saleucami as General Grievous continues his mad quest to burn the Mid Rim to cinders." Thus, measures 'necessary' to the war effort are more likely to be accepted by the people. And any peace, even a negative one (Absence of tension as opposed to presence of justice) is going to go over better. Now who might benefit from that. . .

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1 hour ago, pnewman15 said:

Is a Jedi Master really a career, or just a Jedi who has the Mastery ability for at least one force tree, and a high enough Force Rating that they can usually make it work?

Being a Jedi Master and having mastery over the Force are totally different things. Becoming a Jedi Master is more about fulfilling your duty to the Jedi Order. 

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6 minutes ago, Underachiever599 said:

Being a Jedi Master and having mastery over the Force are totally different things. Becoming a Jedi Master is more about fulfilling your duty to the Jedi Order. 

I thought a Jedi Master was just someone who trained another Jedi to knighthood.

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8 hours ago, The Grand Falloon said:

   This is where I would absolutely focus a campaign.  To my mind, making Dooku a clear villain was a huge mistake in the prequels.  Even if he had fallen to the Dark Side, I would have had him claim to still be a Jedi, arguing against the Order being so closely tied to the Republic.  After all, the Separatist movement could really only take off because of actual failures of the Republic to represent so many different planets and cultures.  When so many systems decide to leave, the Republic trying to keep them by force should rub a lot of Jedi the wrong way.  I would imagine huge arguments in the Temple, as the establishment tries to support the Republic, while a lot of Jedi out in the field have seen the war blast cities into rubble, leaving Separatist civilians dead, homeless, starving, and diseased.  Such a situation could easily cause a schism in the Jedi Order, with many leaving Coruscant to initially act as sort of a Peace Corp, but eventually crossing blades with their former brethren.

   Which, if you're a manipulative Sith Lord, is a much better way to begin the eradication of the Jedi.

   Darn it.  I really wasn't that excited at the announcement, but now I wanna run a Clone Wars campaign.

I have always thought the American civil war was Lucas' inspiration for the who prequel story arc, the Grand Army of the Republic being the dead give away.

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3 hours ago, Eoen said:

I have always thought the American civil war was Lucas' inspiration for the who prequel story arc, the Grand Army of the Republic being the dead give away.

Bits and pieces. The American Civil War, the turn of the Roman Republic into an open dictatorship, the Vietnam War, World War 2... They're all in there.

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6 hours ago, Daeglan said:

And not till a year after IX

Maybe. So far, we’re seeing a small degree of synergy with the era books. Dawn of Rebellion’s originally targeted release would have put the book heavy on Rebels information on shelves when the show’s final season began. As it was, it hit stores in synch with the finale.  Now, we’ve got the announcement of a Clone Wars book hot on the heels of the announcement of the 12 episode final season (which doesn’t have a premiere date yet). If the book’s release ends up around the time of the premiere, I’d say there’s the possibility of a sequel era book around the time of IX’s home video release.

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15 hours ago, The Grand Falloon said:

   This is where I would absolutely focus a campaign.  To my mind, making Dooku a clear villain was a huge mistake in the prequels.  Even if he had fallen to the Dark Side, I would have had him claim to still be a Jedi, arguing against the Order being so closely tied to the Republic.  After all, the Separatist movement could really only take off because of actual failures of the Republic to represent so many different planets and cultures.  When so many systems decide to leave, the Republic trying to keep them by force should rub a lot of Jedi the wrong way.  I would imagine huge arguments in the Temple, as the establishment tries to support the Republic, while a lot of Jedi out in the field have seen the war blast cities into rubble, leaving Separatist civilians dead, homeless, starving, and diseased.  Such a situation could easily cause a schism in the Jedi Order, with many leaving Coruscant to initially act as sort of a Peace Corp, but eventually crossing blades with their former brethren.

   Which, if you're a manipulative Sith Lord, is a much better way to begin the eradication of the Jedi.

   Darn it.  I really wasn't that excited at the announcement, but now I wanna run a Clone Wars campaign.

This AU is begging to be ran, lol. I'd like to see this fleshed out some more.

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3 hours ago, Stan Fresh said:

Better for humans. Dookue in the EU is a big ol' racist, not some principled revolutionary.

He had principles about the Republic, not the liberalism.

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16 hours ago, The Grand Falloon said:

   This is where I would absolutely focus a campaign.  To my mind, making Dooku a clear villain was a huge mistake in the prequels.  Even if he had fallen to the Dark Side, I would have had him claim to still be a Jedi, arguing against the Order being so closely tied to the Republic.  After all, the Separatist movement could really only take off because of actual failures of the Republic to represent so many different planets and cultures.  When so many systems decide to leave, the Republic trying to keep them by force should rub a lot of Jedi the wrong way.  I would imagine huge arguments in the Temple, as the establishment tries to support the Republic, while a lot of Jedi out in the field have seen the war blast cities into rubble, leaving Separatist civilians dead, homeless, starving, and diseased.  Such a situation could easily cause a schism in the Jedi Order, with many leaving Coruscant to initially act as sort of a Peace Corp, but eventually crossing blades with their former brethren.

   Which, if you're a manipulative Sith Lord, is a much better way to begin the eradication of the Jedi.

   Darn it.  I really wasn't that excited at the announcement, but now I wanna run a Clone Wars campaign.

I’m glad I’m not the only outside the box thinker when it comes to pondering “realistically” about the Clone Wars.

I’d take it a step further and have it to where at the onset it’s actual “people” fighting the war (not clones and robots) with the Jedi trying to be a peace force and save innocents and give aid to civilian populaces and other lifeforms affected by the conflict (overall it would cause several schisms in the order as some side with the Republic, some with the Separatists, while most try and keep the balance: pretty much how you put it).

Eventually the Seperatists start to get their backs pushed against the wall and release their battle droids, huge city sized spider-like constructs that won’t stop until they’ve extinguished all life on a planet. The Republic’s response to this is to conscript a “disposable” army of clones to replenish their devastated numbers.

All the while this massive loss of life coupled with the artificial creation of lifeforms tears at the natural force and would really affect those in touch with it, driving them over the edge. Most especially those who were created by the force itself...

 

There’s really good potential for better storytelling in the prequels than what we got. Makes me wish George didn’t surround himself with such brown-nosers during the creative process.

Edited by Flavorabledeez

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Several days ago, I started watching The Clone Wars again. I had only watched it sporadically the first time, and with commercial breaks. This time, I'm watching 3-4 episodes at a time on Netflix, and I'm liking it much better. It's almost painful now for me to look at anything Rebels-related, because the art and visuals in TCW was so much better.

I have high hopes for gaming in this period, but I'm not sure about the relevance to the themes of the three lines.

  • AoR: Sure, there's a war, and while playing it as a local band of partisans against the Seps might feel similar to the Rebellion-era game, a Jedi-led Clone unit is going to be vastly different in tone. Duty probably needs to be re-examined in this case.
  • FaD: Well, there are Jedi, but they seem to have more far links to the aforementioned war campaign than to the self-discovery and existential survival themes of FaD. So while the game rules and such are fine, the change of tone again needs to be explored in detail. Hopefully, Morality & Conflict in an active war setting gets a bit of focus.
  • EotE: There's still a fringe, but the change from a single monolithic Empire to two belligerent powers is going to change things up. I hope the product explores the impact of these changes, but unfortunately, I think many of the changes (like Maul's Shadow Collective) were explored late in TCW, so I'm not too sure they'll show up in this book.

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25 minutes ago, Flavorabledeez said:

There’s really good potential for better storytelling in the prequels than what we got. Makes me wish George didn’t surround himself with such brown-nosers during the creative process.

As long as you can sell that story to a bunch of 8-12 year-olds, it might be considered better. If not, it still makes for a fascinating alternative take.

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2 minutes ago, HappyDaze said:

Several days ago, I started watching The Clone Wars again. I had only watched it sporadically the first time, and with commercial breaks. This time, I'm watching 3-4 episodes at a time on Netflix, and I'm liking it much better. It's almost painful now for me to look at anything Rebels-related, because the art and visuals in TCW was so much better.

I have high hopes for gaming in this period, but I'm not sure about the relevance to the themes of the three lines.

  • AoR: Sure, there's a war, and while playing it as a local band of partisans against the Seps might feel similar to the Rebellion-era game, a Jedi-led Clone unit is going to be vastly different in tone. Duty probably needs to be re-examined in this case.
  • FaD: Well, there are Jedi, but they seem to have more far links to the aforementioned war campaign than to the self-discovery and existential survival themes of FaD. So while the game rules and such are fine, the change of tone again needs to be explored in detail. Hopefully, Morality & Conflict in an active war setting gets a bit of focus.
  • EotE: There's still a fringe, but the change from a single monolithic Empire to two belligerent powers is going to change things up. I hope the product explores the impact of these changes, but unfortunately, I think many of the changes (like Maul's Shadow Collective) were explored late in TCW, so I'm not too sure they'll show up in this book.

I could have easily seen this as a core-sized book, for many of these reasons.

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6 hours ago, Stan Fresh said:

Bits and pieces. The American Civil War, the turn of the Roman Republic into an open dictatorship, the Vietnam War, World War 2... They're all in there.

Yeah I know Palpatine is inspired by Nixon, according to interviews Lucas gave in the 80’s.

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2 hours ago, Demon4x4 said:

I could have easily seen this as a core-sized book, for many of these reasons.

It’s the same price point as Dawn of Rebellion, I think they might have more than one clone wars era book.

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4 minutes ago, Eoen said:

It’s the same price point as Dawn of Rebellion, I think they might have more than one clone wars era book.

Sure, but they could have made it a core book, had 6 career supplements, maybe an adventure module/location book or two, and most of us would have gotten them all. :P

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3 hours ago, Demon4x4 said:

I could have easily seen this as a core-sized book, for many of these reasons.

Same. That was honestly what I was expecting them to do. I was genuinely surprised to see Clones will get their own careers, rather than just "use Age of Rebellion." Couple that with the vastly differing power levels of the Jedi compared to F&D, the amount of NPCs and gear that needs stating, as well as the scale, I'm quite surprised they're fitting all this into a Splat book. I know there's talk of a Late War book being predicted but even so, it's looking hefty. Heck, even the fluff for the period is so different - the GAR, Jedi, Republic itself, Separatists, could easily fill a corebook.

I'm not complaining mind you.

Edited by Arbitrator

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7 hours ago, Flavorabledeez said:

There’s really good potential for better storytelling in the prequels than what we got. Makes me wish George didn’t surround himself with such brown-nosers during the creative process.

Ug.  So tired of the pablum crowd.  Maybe you could ponder the fact that stuffing an entire byzantine political plot along with character arcs and world building and other development into 3 standard length movies means taking shortcuts in presentation.  Hence the cringe-inducing dialogue and clear lines of good vs evil.  There's not a lot of time for nuance.

The Clone Wars series makes it pretty clear that even if Dooku is evil at heart, the reasons for the existence of the CIS are legitimate.  Most of the members of CIS never see the evil side of Dooku, and hence chalk up all such talk to propaganda.  TCW was Lucas' third baby, where he fleshed out all those ideas you think he didn't have.

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