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Rise of the Separatists Era Book

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10 minutes ago, HappyDaze said:

I'm neither arguing nor disagreeing, merely stating a hope that they give us a dating system that moves forward from a point that has already occurred in-universe rather than a "before some future event" count. If they decide to use the Battle of Geonosis, I'd like a mention of what the previous event and count were too in case somebody decides to back up the clock a few years and play during Dooku's build-up period while the Republic and Jedi were not yet engaged in stopping him.

Leaving the chronology sort of vague and restricting it to providing dates such as early in the war, at the height of the war, towards its end, etc. has advantages, too. Specificity can be a straitjacket to people.

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The characters say the Galactic Republic was at peace for a 'thousand years'. If you want, pre-geonosis, you can say something like 997 GRS (Galactic Republic Standard). Clones and military could base it on activation to simplyfy things, "90 days, After Battle for Geonosis". As it sets a hard point for them, but they could easily do GRS. Then, after the fall, you could say the empire went back and changed some things. Any bad super facist state does, so battle of yavin becomes "1030 GIS" Galactic Imperial Standard.

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This may be a totally incorrect theory, but maybe they will have instructions on how to create a higher-powered character worthy of the Clone Wars through alternative character creation, by making it so that Knight-Level XP can be spent as starting XP.

Creating Obi-Wan from a baseline Human requires ten ranks in Dedication, meaning well over 1000XP, but if one were spending starting XP on reaching his quoted level then that's a 'mere' 440XP to buy up to 335544. Maybe FFG will suggest alternative character creation methods for this era of true Jedi, elite soldiers, and generally various shades of Big Darn Hero: indeed their accession to true Jedi and elite-style Clone specs suggests that may even be the focus of the book. It may look entirely different to this suggestion (which, after all, any GM trying to improve their PCs could figure out), but I feel part of this book will contain advice on playing characters that match up to the legends of the time.

Edited by ColonelCommissar

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In the new book The Rebel Files, which is considered "in-universe" it has a quote from Leia that says, "In addition to wiping away the Republic, the Emperor reset the dating system to the time before the formation of the Empire and the time after its formation - yet another display of his absolute control." Dates are also listed throughout the book as "Standard Date: 14-17 AFE (After the Formation of The Empire)." I would expect to see this pop up a lot more in future books.

So I realize this isn't going to help a Clone Wars era game, I could imagine a FOR or AFR (After the Formation of the Republic) designation would work totally well in this setting. As the Republic stood for 1000 years you could easily toss around a 1005 AFR year designation in your game or something like that. It wouldn't surprise me if some day they go with this kind of idea canonically. 

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2 hours ago, ColonelCommissar said:

This may be a totally incorrect theory, but maybe they will have instructions on how to create a higher-powered character worthy of the Clone Wars through alternative character creation, by making it so that Knight-Level XP can be spent as starting XP.

Creating Obi-Wan from a baseline Human requires ten ranks in Dedication, meaning well over 1000XP, but if one were spending starting XP on reaching his quoted level then that's a 'mere' 440XP to buy up to 335544. Maybe FFG will suggest alternative character creation methods for this era of true Jedi, elite soldiers, and generally various shades of Big Darn Hero: indeed their accession to true Jedi and elite-style Clone specs suggests that may even be the focus of the book. It may look entirely different to this suggestion (which, after all, any GM trying to improve their PCs could figure out), but I feel part of this book will contain advice on playing characters that match up to the legends of the time.

Pretty sure those NPC baseline ability score aren't meant to represent what a player should be in any way shape or form.

As NPCs using high base Ability scores allows you to get good success probability and opposed difficulties easily. Using "normal" Ability Scores like a Player can get and you'd need ridiculous Skill numbers to get there, resulting in a longer than needed statblock to accommodate all those skill numbers.

It's ok for a player character to have a list of Talents and Skills a mile long because only one person has to track one character with any detail. A GM wants simpler cleaner stat numbers with few talents and skills so there's less to track and remember when you're actually playing that character along with 20 others.

More likely we'll see the same "Knight Level" option, but since they've made a dedicated "Jedi" career we'll see some Specs that have a good smattering of "Jedi" talents allowing you to get Film Action Replication a little more XP efficiently than what's currently available with existing trees.

 

To an extent I blame TPM. Even using what's currently available and a little narrative interpretation you can do Obi-wan (and probably even Qui-gon if you can get over yourself) at Knight Level. It's the start of that "campaign" so it works, makes sense, and allows a player to be the same level of hero as you see in the films. But TPM isn't a great Star Wars Film, or Prequel.

Clone Wars, on the other hand is pretty good, especially later Seasons. So that's the reference point most people have. In game terms though TCW would occur probably at least 2-4 multi-session Adventures into the campaign. So assuming 15 XP/Session, at that point PC Obi-wan would be sitting on something like Knight Level + 180 XP at the series chronological  start with the Episode Cat and Mouse. That gives a lot more XP to work with, and if you add more XP per Episode, by RotS PC Obi-wan is going ot be pretty beefy.

Edited by Ghostofman

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18 hours ago, Daeglan said:

That is legends. Not canon. Try again.

Nope. The Galactic Atlas was published in 2016. It's canon. The Rebels Visual Guide as well was published in 2014, also making the in universe information in that canon as well. 

Edited by Tramp Graphics

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10 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:

Nope. The Galactic Atlas was published in 2016. It's canon. The Rebels Visual Guide as well was published in 2014, also making the in universe information in that canon as well. 

Neither of which are in universe.

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9 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

Neither of which are in universe.

Wrong. The Galactic Atlas certainly is. Not only that, but as the "behind the scenes section on the Wookieepedia article says: 

Quote

Star Wars: Galactic Atlas was the first source to use the BBY/ABY in canon.[1]

Note the bolded text. In fact, the development team for Battlefront II consulted that book as a key reference while producing the game. 

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7 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:

Wrong. The Galactic Atlas certainly is. Not only that, but as the "behind the scenes section on the Wookieepedia article says: 

Note the bolded text. In fact, the development team for Battlefront II consulted that book as a key reference while producing the game. 

But they are not written as someone in the universe. So while yes we measure things by the battle of Yavin. I seriously doubt anyone in the universe does. As someone pointed out the Dossier refers to things in relation to the Formation of the Empire. That is an in universe reference.

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12 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

But they are not written as someone in the universe. So while yes we measure things by the battle of Yavin. I seriously doubt anyone in the universe does. As someone pointed out the Dossier refers to things in relation to the Formation of the Empire. That is an in universe reference.

The Galactic Atlas is written from an in universe perspactive, as stated in the Star Wars.com article about it. To quote:

Quote

Originally developed and released by Egmont UK as Star Wars: Galactic Atlas in the United Kingdom, Ireland, and South Africa in November, this lovingly detailed 80-page book brings together the characters, landmarks, creatures, and geography and presents it in an in-universe fashion, as if put together by an artist inspired by travelers’ tales. Plus, this atlas brings together information from across the Star Wars saga, including The Force Awakens, The Clone Wars, Star Wars Rebels, and the newest Star Wars film, Rogue One. StarWars.com reached out by e-mail to the real-world illustrator of Galactic Maps, Tim McDonagh, and learned how this treasury came to be.

The Galactic Atlas is an in universe guide to the SW galaxy and its history, not an out of universe one. 

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Ladies and Gentlemen, could you possibly create a new thread for your horological debates, so that the rest of us can get back to exploding with joy at the prospect of this book?

I will be interested also to see what new equipment they provide. I feel like they will keep this book restricted to what you could call the 'Phase 1 Armour' stage of the war, so nothing that popped up after about Season 3 of TCW, but even then there is a wealth of gear. I would also be interested in how much stuff from the old canon filters into the new: the ARC Troopers' old issue rifle, the WESTAR-M5, featured a lot in the comics and is one of my favourite canon weapons from its' look, so I would love to see it feature here, amongst a host of others. Other fantastic elements of the Clone Wars that never made the show - Jabiim, Praesitlyn, Durge, etc. - would also be pretty great to see. The fact that it would then open the door to eventual KOTOR/SWTOR era books would also make that an interesting and potentially highly-advisable development.

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I can't remember what book it was in, but I recall a scene in which Luke was doing some research and was getting very frustrated at the fact that every time there was a major event in the galaxy, the dating system ended up getting changed. 

Unrelated:  if you need to draw attention to your bold text, you might be using a little too much of it.  

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3 hours ago, Vorzakk said:

I can't remember what book it was in, but I recall a scene in which Luke was doing some research and was getting very frustrated at the fact that every time there was a major event in the galaxy, the dating system ended up getting changed. 

Unrelated:  if you need to draw attention to your bold text, you might be using a little too much of it.  

I believe it's in one of the Hand of Thrawn books. I recall that scene too.

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14 hours ago, Drig said:

In the new book The Rebel Files, which is considered "in-universe" it has a quote from Leia that says, "In addition to wiping away the Republic, the Emperor reset the dating system to the time before the formation of the Empire and the time after its formation - yet another display of his absolute control." Dates are also listed throughout the book as "Standard Date: 14-17 AFE (After the Formation of The Empire)." I would expect to see this pop up a lot more in future books.

So I realize this isn't going to help a Clone Wars era game, I could imagine a FOR or AFR (After the Formation of the Republic) designation would work totally well in this setting. As the Republic stood for 1000 years you could easily toss around a 1005 AFR year designation in your game or something like that. It wouldn't surprise me if some day they go with this kind of idea canonically. 

Ruusan reformation was ususally used as a reference point for time in the Expanded universe. It's when Darth Bane and the Brotherhood of Darkness have been defeated and the Jedi demobilize. It' some 980 years before the Empire is declared.

If you want to go to the founding of the rebuplic, then that is around 25000 years before the events we see. Which is a pretty insane number.

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This is the first RPG release for FFG's take on Star Wars that I'm completely blasé about. Blame the unnecessary pages spent providing stats for the Death Star and Rebels characters in Dawn of Rebellion. Blame my inherent xennial hesitation to committing resources to prequel era role-playing supplements.

I appreciate that Lucas did something different with the prequels. I own The Clone Wars on Blu-Ray. Overall, the prequel-era is a net positive for me. What the prequels lack is the David and Goliath tension that most RPGs focus on. The Clone Wars were Palpatine's false flag operation, resulting in two equally matched science-fiction armies of numbered drones blasting each other. From a story-telling perspective, that was just an action set-piece to break up the character interplay between Obi-Wan and Anakin (and Ahsoka). Unlike the original trilogy, the war stuff was the least interesting part of the prequel era. Add on the very regimented life of clone soldiers and Jedi commanders and you have a setting that deflates narrative tension and removes character agency.

Obviously, if you aren't playing to canon, your mileage will vary.

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1 hour ago, Concise Locket said:

This is the first RPG release for FFG's take on Star Wars that I'm completely blasé about. Blame the unnecessary pages spent providing stats for the Death Star and Rebels characters in Dawn of Rebellion. Blame my inherent xennial hesitation to committing resources to prequel era role-playing supplements.

I appreciate that Lucas did something different with the prequels. I own The Clone Wars on Blu-Ray. Overall, the prequel-era is a net positive for me. What the prequels lack is the David and Goliath tension that most RPGs focus on. The Clone Wars were Palpatine's false flag operation, resulting in two equally matched science-fiction armies of numbered drones blasting each other. From a story-telling perspective, that was just an action set-piece to break up the character interplay between Obi-Wan and Anakin (and Ahsoka). Unlike the original trilogy, the war stuff was the least interesting part of the prequel era. Add on the very regimented life of clone soldiers and Jedi commanders and you have a setting that deflates narrative tension and removes character agency.

Obviously, if you aren't playing to canon, your mileage will vary.

I have to agree with you about limited agency for GAR and Jedi Order characters. However, I am very interested in using the setting for an Edge of the Empire styled fringe campaign during the period, possibly including rogue Jedi (perhaps that sympathise with the Seps but are unwilling to war against the Republic) and/or deserting member of the GAR (if there can be traitorous Clones, there can be deserters too).

Edited by HappyDaze

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50 minutes ago, Concise Locket said:

This is the first RPG release for FFG's take on Star Wars that I'm completely blasé about. Blame the unnecessary pages spent providing stats for the Death Star and Rebels characters in Dawn of Rebellion. Blame my inherent xennial hesitation to committing resources to prequel era role-playing supplements.

I appreciate that Lucas did something different with the prequels. I own The Clone Wars on Blu-Ray. Overall, the prequel-era is a net positive for me. What the prequels lack is the David and Goliath tension that most RPGs focus on. The Clone Wars were Palpatine's false flag operation, resulting in two equally matched science-fiction armies of numbered drones blasting each other. From a story-telling perspective, that was just an action set-piece to break up the character interplay between Obi-Wan and Anakin (and Ahsoka). Unlike the original trilogy, the war stuff was the least interesting part of the prequel era. Add on the very regimented life of clone soldiers and Jedi commanders and you have a setting that deflates narrative tension and removes character agency.

Obviously, if you aren't playing to canon, your mileage will vary.

Let's not mention the c-word, the calendar crew will have a field day ?

I would disagree with your point on the lack of tension, and indeed that that's where most RPGs focus (see below for a full discussion of that). There can be plenty of tension in a Prequel story, not to mention possible levels of David and Goliath. Consider the events of the second year of the war (which this book seems likely still to look at): the Republic was on the back foot, with an entire sector around Eriadu trapped behind enemy lines and besieged. Separatist raiders struck across the galaxy. It seemed for a time as if they really might win it. Having the PCs step into that environment gives them a huge opportunity to make a difference.

Furthermore, I would say that Clones and Jedi live lives only as regimented as the GM allows them to: Rex, Fives, Alpha-77 and other Clones all prove a high level of individuality is possible, while far from all the Jedi were off leading campaigns. Sure, we all know how the war ends, but how many stories can you tell from within it? I've been drawing up three potential campaigns for my PbP group, each of which is designed to allow for appropriate roleplaying and real threat levels in the context of the Clone Wars: a Jedi-focused campaign about a group of Jedi on a special Council mission to pursue a Dark Jedi carrying a Dark Side artefact (or so they think); a Clone-focused campaign about a Special Operations team helping reclaim a Republic superweapon and its designer from the Separatists; or a Mixed campaign putting the PCs into a sandbox Sub-Sector as its commanders building defences against a massive impending Separatist assault. Plenty of responsibility, plenty of tension, without being unnecessarily railroaded by the constraints of a military structure. There are many themes you can explore - the role of the Jedi in a galaxy at war, the responsibility of Clones to follow orders vs. what seems right, or just being a bunch of Big Darn Heroes - that might not be possible, or at least not on such a scale, in the Rebellion era.

That said, I don't really know how one would incorporate the stats for 'celebrity' characters: aside from maybe a training lightsaber duel with Obi-Wan, anything else will either be hilariously non-canon ('Hey, we captured General Grievous!') or would end up being a damp squib ("You've knocked off Count Dooku's last wound. He immediately pushes you all back with the Force and runs away. You cannot reach him. Sucks to be you I guess"). But fun to see the stats at least.

As for RPGs being focused on David and Goliath tension, I would have to humbly disagree. RPGs can take on any flavour, often with truly ridiculous power levels: a full party of Level 20 D&D characters can fell small armies, while your average Strike Legion players are going to be messing about with some truly hilarious levels of power. Rather, humans have always enjoyed David and Goliath stories, because everyone likes a plucky underdog who wins out. That said, it's a story I enjoy too, so if that's your motivation for not wanting to get this book then that seems entirely fair to me.

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1 hour ago, Concise Locket said:

This is the first RPG release for FFG's take on Star Wars that I'm completely blasé about. Blame the unnecessary pages spent providing stats for the Death Star and Rebels characters in Dawn of Rebellion. Blame my inherent xennial hesitation to committing resources to prequel era role-playing supplements.

I appreciate that Lucas did something different with the prequels. I own The Clone Wars on Blu-Ray. Overall, the prequel-era is a net positive for me. What the prequels lack is the David and Goliath tension that most RPGs focus on. The Clone Wars were Palpatine's false flag operation, resulting in two equally matched science-fiction armies of numbered drones blasting each other. From a story-telling perspective, that was just an action set-piece to break up the character interplay between Obi-Wan and Anakin (and Ahsoka). Unlike the original trilogy, the war stuff was the least interesting part of the prequel era. Add on the very regimented life of clone soldiers and Jedi commanders and you have a setting that deflates narrative tension and removes character agency.

Obviously, if you aren't playing to canon, your mileage will vary.

You raise a few good points, though the the seperatists wastly outnumber the republic troops, have more resources, superior technology and basically only the force users prevented the Confederacy of Independent Systems from winning the war. There is a David vs Goliath theme in there, the issue is just that the force users are pretty comfortable being David, because that's the guy who won the fight, right? ?

My name is General Mace Windu, of the Jedi Order. At this point of the Clone War, I have dismantled and destroyed over 100,000 of you type 1 battle droids. I am giving you an opportunity to peacefully lay down your weapons, so that you may be reprogrammed to serve a better purpose than spreading the mindless violence and chaos which you have inflicted upon the galaxy.

Edited by SEApocalypse

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On 8/13/2018 at 4:43 AM, HappyDaze said:

I'm neither arguing nor disagreeing, merely stating a hope that they give us a dating system that moves forward from a point that has already occurred in-universe rather than a "before some future event" count. If they decide to use the Battle of Geonosis, I'd like a mention of what the previous event and count were too in case somebody decides to back up the clock a few years and play during Dooku's build-up period while the Republic and Jedi were not yet engaged in stopping him.

I doubt that kind of thing will be introduced in an RPG book. 

Somewhere (Pablo Hidalgo, maybe?), I got the idea of having the in-universe year the Death Star was destroyed be 1977. The calendar is dated from some unknown even that involved the Old Republic, Coruscant, or something like that. The Clone Wars started circa 1955, ended around 1958, and Han and Chewie finally found the Millennium Falcon in 2011. That makes it simple for players, and since the calendar started a couple of thousand years ago, the calendar's founding event is pretty irrelevant.

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6 hours ago, coyote6 said:

I doubt that kind of thing will be introduced in an RPG book. 

Somewhere (Pablo Hidalgo, maybe?), I got the idea of having the in-universe year the Death Star was destroyed be 1977. The calendar is dated from some unknown even that involved the Old Republic, Coruscant, or something like that. The Clone Wars started circa 1955, ended around 1958, and Han and Chewie finally found the Millennium Falcon in 2011. That makes it simple for players, and since the calendar started a couple of thousand years ago, the calendar's founding event is pretty irrelevant.

Oh man that works really well. The prequels have sleek chrome vehicles and 1950s-style diners, the OT have 1970s tech because well, they do, the ST is ~modern day.

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2 hours ago, Talkie Toaster said:

Oh man that works really well. The prequels have sleek chrome vehicles and 1950s-style diners, the OT have 1970s tech because well, they do, the ST is ~modern day.

Slightly related:

http://eleven-thirtyeight.com/2016/10/controlling-the-narrative-a-discussion-with-pablo-hidalgo-contd/

"And I think that’s kind of important, I think part of the Star Wars DNA that I don’t ever want to forget is that it’s accessible from a certain point in history. My yardstick – and not that this is an iron-clad rule – is that any Star Wars story you’re trying to tell should be understandable for an audience from, say, the 1930s or 1940s. You shouldn’t have technology in it that completely jumps ahead of anything that they may have a pre-digital analog of. So you can dress up a poster as a hologram or an electronic transmission, but ultimately it’s still going to look like something that could’ve been imagined by someone who was living and creating art in, say, the 1930s or 1940s. "

 

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To some a calendar is important, to others it may not be. However, this topic has certainly generated enough chatter about it, that it would be wise to make it its own thread for maximum exposure and input.

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1 hour ago, kaosoe said:

To some a calendar is important, to others it may not be. However, this topic has certainly generated enough chatter about it, that it would be wise to make it its own thread for maximum exposure and input.

I've set up a meeting up to discuss it. You should see the invite on your calendar...  

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