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What will the CIS look like?

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If they do multiple ships to a base, I will be rather irritated. It's not needed. They already are up-scaling the RZ2 and seemingly the Jedi fighter from their canon sizes to be closer to an A-Wing. They'll probably do the same for Vulture droids.

That said, CIS droid pilots will be the masters of the Calculate action, though they may require commanders to get the most out of it. I imagine something where Calculate tokens can be used across ships or moved very easily. Commanders perhaps allow for additional uses for Calculate tokens, with the possibility of "assuming control" of droid ships to get the most out of them. Something like that.

Meanwhile, non-droid squadrons will be reliant on strong abilities that stand alone, without synergy with other ships.

That's what makes sense to me anyway.

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On 8/10/2018 at 10:17 AM, GuacCousteau said:

Buzz Droids have missiles and condition cards written all over them

Attack: Target lock (range 2/3)

2 charges (perhaps these can't be reloaded?)

Spend 1 charge to perform a 3 to 4 die attack depending on cost. On hit, cancel all results and assign the "mechagremlins" condition to the target.

Mechagremlins: When your receive this card, and at the start of the system phase, roll one attack die. On a crit, deal yourself a facedown (faceup?) damage card. On a hit, reroll this die once more (to see if you get a crit). Action: Discard this card

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On 8/10/2018 at 2:12 AM, Hiemfire said:

Vulture droid in flight mode (they also can walk if you guys recall, it ain't a separate droid model):

Height: 1.86 m (looks to be with the wing/leg pods closed, 6.96 m shorter in height than the TIE/LN) Length: 6.96 m (28 cm shorter in length than the TIE/LN)

Weapons: Pair of dual blaster cannons, energy torpedo launcher, missile slot.

Speed: 1,200 in atmosphere

Shields: nada

Special: Can transition between attack and mobility modes (they open their 'wings/legs' in attack mode).

Disregard my comment, was think oof hyena bomber

Edited by Vontoothskie

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I've been in a couple interesting threads the last 2 weeks about Buzz and Vulture Droids, so here's my thinking:

1) 

Buzz Droid Missile:

Range 2-3

3 Dice

2 Charges

Attack (Lock): Spend one charge from this card to perform this attack. While performing this attack, you may spend 1 charge from this card to roll 1 additional attack die. If this attack hits, the defender receives the "Buzz Droids!" condition. Then cancel all dice results.

 

"Buzz Droids!"

3 Charges

At the beginning of the end phase, roll one attack die. On a Crit result, receive one faceup damage card. On a Hit result, receive one facedown damage card. On a Focus result, receive one stress token. On a Blank result, receive one jam token at the beginning of the next planning phase.

When there are no charges on this card, remove it.

Action: Remove one charge from this card.

 

2) Vulture Droid (all generics): 

I2 

2/2/3

Calculate

 

3) Generic Confederacy Titles:

(CIS Only. Requires the Calculate Action) Computerized Swarm: You may treat friendly ships' calculate tokens as your own. You may equip an additional title card.

(CIS Only) Flocking: While you defend, after the Neutralize Results step, another friendly ship with the calculate action at range 0-1 and in the attack arc may suffer 1 hit damage. If it does, cancel 1 hit result. You may equip an additional title card.

 

4) I envision the basic principle to be massive, synergistic swarms, as opposed to the Empire, whose swarms have support/leaders, or the rebels, who are synergistic but don't swarm. Occasionally a leader like a tactical droid may show up to boost the synergies, or a biological ace (ie grievous, ventress) will pop in to fly around without contributing to the synergy, but benefitting from it.

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So I had this idea floating in my head for a while since 1.0, for the addition of Vulture Droids as Scum, but now obviously will be CIS.

 

Each Vulture droid will actually be 3, and they will starting on a large base, with 3 pegs, flying in your typical Triangle formation, with me so far? Each Vulture droid, as they really were not tough, even the N1 could handle blowing them up no problem, would basicly only have 1 Hull, (With upgrade, 1 shield), 2 damage, (at base) and 2 agility, the dial of course would be quite fast, and nimble, even possibly having a barrel roll, but this is where the "ship" starts falling into its gimmik.  you can use the "base" to attack twice (But Zeoinx, are there not 3 ships on the base?) Yes, and this can be debating for power creep later, but, if the ship (large base) takes at least 1 hull damage, the size of the base becomes a medium base, and then the two ships remain, still flyin in formation. then eventually being reduced to a small base ship, as there will be one left. Maybe even a special large base that kinda "clicks together" to make it work without having to switch actual bases.

Possible upgrades can be on the ship as "Advanced AI Fire Synchronization Systems" to allow all 3 to fire at once, and these ships can have a decent point cost, as well as this upgrade, boost, lock on, etc.

This can easily be applied to any of the weak, droid ships, like the Tri Fighter as well.

Hyena Bombers, Belbullab-22 starfighters, and simlar high end vessels will of course be solo small, medium, large base vessels as required.

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9 minutes ago, Zeoinx said:

So I had this idea floating in my head for a while since 1.0, for the addition of Vulture Droids as Scum, but now obviously will be CIS.

 

Each Vulture droid will actually be 3, and they will starting on a large base, with 3 pegs, flying in your typical Triangle formation, with me so far? Each Vulture droid, as they really were not tough, even the N1 could handle blowing them up no problem, would basicly only have 1 Hull, (With upgrade, 1 shield), 2 damage, (at base) and 2 agility, the dial of course would be quite fast, and nimble, even possibly having a barrel roll, but this is where the "ship" starts falling into its gimmik.  you can use the "base" to attack twice (But Zeoinx, are there not 3 ships on the base?) Yes, and this can be debating for power creep later, but, if the ship (large base) takes at least 1 hull damage, the size of the base becomes a medium base, and then the two ships remain, still flyin in formation. then eventually being reduced to a small base ship, as there will be one left. Maybe even a special large base that kinda "clicks together" to make it work without having to switch actual bases.

Possible upgrades can be on the ship as "Advanced AI Fire Synchronization Systems" to allow all 3 to fire at once, and these ships can have a decent point cost, as well as this upgrade, boost, lock on, etc.

This can easily be applied to any of the weak, droid ships, like the Tri Fighter as well.

Hyena Bombers, Belbullab-22 starfighters, and simlar high end vessels will of course be solo small, medium, large base vessels as required.

A couple of issues. Your looking at 3 bases per box with up to 6 minis in said box, or 3 bases and having to swap 3 minis and bases out mid game. 3 hp large base = suicide... I get that you think the hero guns from TPM makes a 'good baseline' but I don't see anyone wanting to play vultures and tris if they're going to be costly out of pocket and tinfoil on the table.

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7 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

A couple of issues. Your looking at 3 bases per box with up to 6 minis in said box, or 3 bases and having to swap 3 minis and bases out mid game. 3 hp large base = suicide... I get that you think the hero guns from TPM makes a 'good baseline' but I don't see anyone wanting to play vultures and tris if they're going to be costly out of pocket and tinfoil on the table.

3 ships per pack, but the idea is you dont just launch them right into battle you screen them with other ships, and work your way into where you can do the most damage with them, I want these types of ships to be high risk, high reward type vessels instead of your typical "swarm" till they drown in bodies Empire style of starfighter combat. Yes, both lore wise were the same, swarm the enemies, but I'd like to see some form of difference between the Tie Swarm and a CIS "swarm". also, i have no idea what Hero guns from TPM means, feel free to give me the lowdown on that.

 

The other idea for the 1HP, is no matter how much damage you do to hull, is you can ONLY remove 1 ship per attack on the base at a time. X-wing does a god role of 4 crits? Oh well, one ship is only gone.

Edited by Zeoinx

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4 minutes ago, Zeoinx said:

3 ships per pack, but the idea is you dont just launch them right into battle you screen them with other ships, and work your way into where you can do the most damage with them, I want these types of ships to be high risk, high reward type vessels instead of your typical "swarm" till they drown in bodies Empire style of starfighter combat. Yes, both lore wise were the same, swarm the enemies, but I'd like to see some form of difference between the Tie Swarm and a CIS "swarm". also, i have no idea what Hero guns from TPM means, feel free to give me the lowdown on that.

 

The other idea for the 1HP, is no matter how much damage you do to hull, is you can ONLY remove 1 ship per attack on the base at a time. X-wing does a god role of 4 crits? Oh well, one ship is only gone.

TPM = The Phantom Menace, A.K.A. Episode 1

Hero Guns... The N1s were the hero ships.... Is it really that hard.

I do wonder what you intend to screen what were the front line fighters with?

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While this would work if we were using the Vulture Droids in a game of Imperial Assault, or Legion, as  they would have something to "land" on, having them stop in space would be weird, unless you gave them the ability to "land" on asteroids or "large base or Epic base" ships.

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On 8/10/2018 at 3:11 PM, JJ48 said:

I'm rather interested in the CIS faction, and got to wondering how it'll play.  Personally, I'm hoping for something with a little bit of a different feel from the other, organic-based militaries.  A couple ideas I've had so far:

Basic Dials - The droids in the droid army don't exactly seem IG-88-level competent.  They are mass-produced to do simple tasks together.  Their dials should be pretty simple, without too much trickery in itself.

Tricksy Team-ups - The droid ships should reward commanders who can master their dials.  The ships should be relatively weak individually, but get considerably better when allies are nearby.  (e.g. an ability like, "When defending, roll X extra dice, where X is the number of allies within Range 1 (max 2)")

Real Swarms - The Buzz Droids are a perfect opportunity to introduce multiple craft on a single base, much like the flotillas in Armada.  Given the role they play in the movies, maybe they would attack only at Range 0-1, but not receive any penalty for overlapping other craft.  I could even see them being immune to critical hits, as they're a cloud of small droids, and hitting one or two in a vital area isn't going to do much about their overall effectiveness.

These are just speculations, not predictions, of course, and would just be general guidelines, not hard rules for every craft.  What are your thoughts?  What would you like to see from the CIS?

I think the CIS will be a mix of Rebels and the Empire. As in They will reward Swarm Flying and have a lot of handshake abilities. I think they will push for either flying swarmy droid ships or Force using Aces like Ventress and Dooku.
Maybe they will include multi faction pilots as in ventress when she was Dookus bodyguard for CIS and when Dooku betrayed her she joins the Scum. Same could happen with Anakin. 

They may not get stressed conventionally like a bio pilot, but you can argue many different reasons why a droid gets stressed. From difficult programming to lack of initiative.

Not sure, I am not a developer, but Balance > Fluff. 

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30 minutes ago, Archangelspiv said:

 Balance > Fluff. 

Thats what 1.0 tried and look where we ended up, Power Creep to the Infinity.

There is a reason why we have LORE, for a sense of expectations, not so we can toss it out the window and go make up **** as we go along. Fluff or LORE should be PARAMOUNT when trying to design the representation of a ship in a game.

Rogue Squadron, X-Wing VS Tie Fighter, noone would be still playing those titles and wanting MORE from those games if you made a Y-Wing with a TLT Turret completely cake walk across the board against everything, cause if that was the case, the rebellion wouldnt bother with x-wings, a-wings or other more versatile fighter, faster, agile craft. B-Wings wouldnt be invented as the REPLACEMENT in firepower for the slow aging Y-Wing, but Y-Wings still have a place because they can tank a lot of damage.

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8 minutes ago, Zeoinx said:

There is a reason why we have LORE, for a sense of expectations, not so we can toss it out the window and go make up **** as we go along. Fluff or LORE should be PARAMOUNT when trying to design the representation of a ship in a game.

If that were true TIE/ln's would cost 10 points each and they would swarm your X Wings. 

Lore gives you ideas, balance makes table top games playable.

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We need:

- Clusters of mini-ships on bases

- Calculate shenanigans

- Ablative units. A 20-point cluster of 3 droid ships might have 3/3/3/0 stats, but every hull point lost reduces attack value by one as one of the droids is destroyed.

- Formation-based abilities

- Not putting everything not-Republic in the Clone Wars era into the CIS faction.

- Lots of reasons to make fun of someone using this faction with "Roger, Roger" jokes.

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1 hour ago, Hawkstrike said:

We need:

- Clusters of mini-ships on bases

- Calculate shenanigans

- Ablative units. A 20-point cluster of 3 droid ships might have 3/3/3/0 stats, but every hull point lost reduces attack value by one as one of the droids is destroyed.

- Formation-based abilities

- Not putting everything not-Republic in the Clone Wars era into the CIS faction.

- Lots of reasons to make fun of someone using this faction with "Roger, Roger" jokes.

1st: No. As I said before look the ships up on the Wiki, unless you secretly want to run Actis Swarm bases.

2nd: This is probably a given.

3rd: So, unlike every other faction so far, have the CIS main line fighter's loose the ability to affect anything after a few hits.... Once again, look at the wiki and really rethink this.

4th: Possible, are you talking formation shape or do you mean like Howlrunner and 1.0 Youngster?

5th: Hmmm..... I think that's why the Scum And Villainy faction exists...

6th: Okay, I get it now. You're a thug just looking for an excuse to bully...

Edited by Hiemfire

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6 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

1st: No. As I said before look the ships up on the Wiki, unless you secretly want to run Actis Swarm bases.

3rd: So, unlike every other faction so far, have the CIS main line fighter's loose the ability to affect anything after a few hits.... Once again, look at the wiki and really rethink this.

No, I'm serious.  I don't care about exact scale -- I think two-three Vulture droids or a bunch of buzz droids on a base would look really cool on the table and give the CIS droids a unique mechanic that doesn't exist elsewhere.  Ablative firepower would balance very low cost to allow CIS droid swarms to be really large.

Sliding model scales already exist in X-Wing; for me fun game trumps model-precise comparisons, and I want the new factions to be very strong in having a niche.

Maybe swarms shouldn't be the CIS' niche -- it's just the one that pops into my head first from the series.

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On 8/10/2018 at 1:02 AM, player2422845 said:

I like those ideas.

What if cis was immune to stress? Basic all white dial? I don't know but I hope the faction will be special in it's own way

I had this idea that would work great with CIS making them more resistance to stress but more vulnerable to ion damage.

 

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I'd also like to chime in with these:

1) Vultures are DEFINITELY big enough in cannon for their own small base.

2) I always assumed that stress reflected physical stress on the ship - otherwise any 2 pilots in a single ship could have wildly different greens (blues), whites, and reds. Droid chassis would still be susceptible to physical stressors

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11 hours ago, Greebwahn said:

I'd also like to chime in with these:

1) Vultures are DEFINITELY big enough in cannon for their own small base.

2) I always assumed that stress reflected physical stress on the ship - otherwise any 2 pilots in a single ship could have wildly different greens (blues), whites, and reds. Droid chassis would still be susceptible to physical stressors

And I never said the vultures were not big enough for their own bases, only that for them, flying in "formation" is far far far easier due to sensors and programming, hench why I suggested larger bases to represent more then one.

In 1.0, I always assumed it was the stress on the pilot, like the pilots going "OH ****, I need to be careful, or oh ****, this turn was intense"

If the vehicle itself was stressed, that's a bad sign and simply going "straight" for instance, isnt going to fix a stress on the ship, because that kinda verbiage means it needs to get repaired or suffer increasing damage the longer the stressed part stays in service.

 

Edited by Zeoinx

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Idk about that. Think about it like this:

You pull a red move, say a K-Turn. The force of such a move strains the space-bolts of your ship. To do another such move would bust them. To do a green move would releive the strain. To do a white move wouldn't add to the strain, but wouldn't relieve it either

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Vulture

Role: Dirt cheap mass produced swarmer (Tie fighter/z95 equiv, possibly more so)

Single Calculate on 3 agility is significantly weaker than focus on 3 agility.
Assuming 23 points is the absolute minimum  point cost allowed for game balance purposes

\/ 2 die primary, ||3 die primary, 3 hull, 3 agility, Calculate, Evade, Barrel roll

I2 Beacon Slave generic
I3 Independant Droid (talent slot)
I3 Squadron Leader unique (Range 1 Attani for Calculate and Jam tokens)
I5 advanced prototype unique (Copy Laetan's ability, but calculates instead of evades)

Edited by Rakaydos

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2 minutes ago, Rakaydos said:

Vulture

Role: Dirt cheap mass produced swarmer (Tie fighter/z95 equiv, possibly more so)

Single Calculate on 3 agility is significantly weaker than focus on 3 agility.
Assuming 23 points is the absolute minimum  point cost allowed for game balance purposes

\/ 2 die primary, ||3 die primary, 3 hull, 3 agility, Calculate, Evade, Barrel roll

I2 Beacon Slave generic
I3 Independant Droid (talent slot)
I3 Squadron Leader unique (Range 1 Attani for Calculate and Jam tokens)
I5 advanced prototype unique (Copy Laetan's ability, but calculates instead of evades)

They can also carry missiles, but I think that is the only thing you missed. :)

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