Jump to content
Commander Kaine

2.0 is kind of a mess

Recommended Posts

15 hours ago, Vontoothskie said:

the basics of it are that companies adjust production quality, retail price, etc.  to meet the minimum requirements expected to achieve sales goals. Companies are obligated to maximize profits, and NOT doing so is in fact a crime in the united states. 

 

This is a common, but incorrect assertion. Quite simply explained here: https://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2015/04/16/what-are-corporations-obligations-to-shareholders/corporations-dont-have-to-maximize-profits

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, ViscerothSWG said:

That way has already been released. It's us lazy folk that want the app that are still waiting.

Lol there isnt a viable non app way to play yet.  i bought saws renegades and tried building a list with the pdf 2 days ago, just to see if 2.0 was less annoying than i thought.

Its awful. Absolutely awful. I just lost interest after 15 minutes. At least I got my 1.0 x-wing fixes though

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Vontoothskie said:

Lol there isnt a viable non app way to play yet.  i bought saws renegades and tried building a list with the pdf 2 days ago, just to see if 2.0 was less annoying than i thought.

Its awful. Absolutely awful. I just lost interest after 15 minutes. At least I got my 1.0 x-wing fixes though

Am curious. What do you picture as a viable non-digital way to build a squad? In a perfect analog world, how would it work?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Jike said:

The problem I have with this "manipulative corporation" narrative is it pre-supposes a level of competence from the designers that, in other discussion, people complain doesn't exist. People call out the developers of multiple games for being bad at their jobs, for not understanding the game, while we also get people saying they can produce OP stuff on demand. GW is the last company I'd hold up as an example of pricing for power in games. Things like Land Raiders and, previously in WHFB Dragons, are among their most expensive kits and are terrible. Meanwhile things like Eldar jetbikes were relatively affordable and ridiculously OP. The entire Primaris line introduced for 8th edition as an attempted big money-spinner is pretty much DOA in game terms because of GW's inability to understand their own system.

Of course companies try to maximise profits and they do it, partially, by doing market research about what people want. Gaming companies that do well will often realise, however, that balance sells better than imbalance and will strive for that where possible. I'm becoming more convinced that everything from Harpoons onwards was FFG simply not caring about 1st edition any more because they knew 2nd was on the way. Krennic help s reinforce that opinion.

Also, given the market research these companies perform, I think we can safely say they've looked at their customers and the market and decided the app is essentially a risk-free change for them, making the few dissenters who don't want the app little more than statistically insignificant noise in the grand scheme of things.

Hahaha what are you talking about?  Thats 2 different groups of people saying those things, first off.  Second, games workshop knows what theyre doing.

7 deathguard plague marines with modular parts and dozens of configurations, $50.

1 deathguard plague marine with special rules and no modularity, $30.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, ViscerothSWG said:

Am curious. What do you picture as a viable non-digital way to build a squad? In a perfect analog world, how would it work?

The physical cards would have the information on them required to play.

You know, like 1.0.

Imagine MTG if you had to look up mana costs to play. 

Edited by Vontoothskie

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Commander Kaine said:

Id be happier if there were no cards at all. 

Let's save the trees!

Why not go full video game/vassal then? Theres no environmental impact there at all, other than the power used

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Vontoothskie said:

Why not go full video game/vassal then? Theres no environmental impact there at all, other than the power used

I like things. I don't like cards. 

I gladly pay for things. I hate paying for paper. Its one of the most worthless materials, and I almost never use them in a game, and it costs a lot. 

Also because errata would change everything on paper. 

Its easier for most people to use the app. That's how the world works. The needs of the many...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Vontoothskie said:

The physical cards would have the information on them required to play.

You know, like 1.0.

Imagine MTG if you had to look up mana costs to play. 

1.0 couldn't viably fix imbalances without releasing new expansions with fix cards in them. 2.0 is the viable alternative, leaving points and slots malleable. 

With some time and effort you can write them on your own cards, then rewrite them when they change. Or on the sleeves, or on a separate insert in the same sleeve with the card.

So your alternative to the pdf is already available to you. Go for it. Let us know how long it takes to transfer the info to the cards. 

 

It's more effort than I'd put into it, but I'm lazy and want the app. Good luck.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, ViscerothSWG said:

1.0 couldn't viably fix imbalances without releasing new expansions with fix cards in them. 2.0 is the viable alternative, leaving points and slots malleable. 

With some time and effort you can write them on your own cards, then rewrite them when they change. Or on the sleeves, or on a separate insert in the same sleeve with the card.

So your alternative to the pdf is already available to you. Go for it. Let us know how long it takes to transfer the info to the cards. 

 

It's more effort than I'd put into it, but I'm lazy and want the app. Good luck.

So youre recommended solution to the problem is to repeat the problem but call it the solution?  

The issue IS NEEDING A PDF. looking things up, writting out the notes everytime theres an errata, it makes a casual game not casual and takes hours and hours. Using the pdf doesnt solve the pdf 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Vontoothskie said:

So youre recommended solution to the problem is to repeat the problem but call it the solution?  

My recommended solution is to wait for the app if you dont want to refer to the pdfs.

You then said you want a way to turn 2.0 cards into 1.0 card format. That involves using the pdf to transpose the info to the 2.0 cards. And redoing those that change when they change. Nothing is stopping you.

mad.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Vontoothskie said:

Lol there isnt a viable non app way to play yet.  i bought saws renegades and tried building a list with the pdf 2 days ago, just to see if 2.0 was less annoying than i thought.

Its awful. Absolutely awful. I just lost interest after 15 minutes. At least I got my 1.0 x-wing fixes though

As someone who has made a couple of lists using the PDFs, I challenge your statement that it isn’t viable. It’s perfectly viable. You may not like it and not think it is enough, but that doesn’t make it universally not viable. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/14/2018 at 3:19 PM, ViscerothSWG said:

My recommended solution is to wait for the app if you dont want to refer to the pdfs.

You then said you want a way to turn 2.0 cards into 1.0 card format. That involves using the pdf to transpose the info to the 2.0 cards. And redoing those that change when they change. Nothing is stopping you.

mad.png

Nothing is stopping you from comprehending the concept of individual preference either, but you keep on failing to do so.  

To summarize, im saying "I dislike frustration. this is new thing is frustrating to me, therefore I dislike it"

You're saying "just like it, then you wont dislike it. Problem solved. Look at my meme that shows you're an idiot. Btw i know whats best and my opinion is factual."

Not a good way to behave or promote discussion dude

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/14/2018 at 3:04 PM, Vontoothskie said:

So youre recommended solution to the problem is to repeat the problem but call it the solution?  

The issue IS NEEDING A PDF. looking things up, writting out the notes everytime theres an errata, it makes a casual game not casual and takes hours and hours. Using the pdf doesnt solve the pdf 

How does it make a casual game take longer?  Once the game starts, you no longer need the pdf.

Unless you're talking about erratas, in which case, how is it any different from the current FAQ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, JJ48 said:

How does it make a casual game take longer?  Once the game starts, you no longer need the pdf.

Unless you're talking about erratas, in which case, how is it any different from the current FAQ?

and in the case of erratas, I would expect the PDF to get updated to reflect. I don't see his issue.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, JJ48 said:

How does it make a casual game take longer?  Once the game starts, you no longer need the pdf.

Unless you're talking about erratas, in which case, how is it any different from the current FAQ?

I never said it makes playing the game take longer.

It takes hours to find, print, and organize the information now, and we'll need to do it everytime theres an errata.  Most people dont play tournaments, so many of us never bothered with checking errata anyway. Needing to now look at rules before playing is an additional complication

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Vontoothskie said:

I never said it makes playing the game take longer.

It takes hours to find, print, and organize the information now, and we'll need to do it everytime theres an errata.  Most people dont play tournaments, so many of us never bothered with checking errata anyway. Needing to now look at rules before playing is an additional complication

Or you just print it out once and ignore erratas like you were already doing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Vontoothskie said:

I never said it makes playing the game take longer.

It takes hours to find, print, and organize the information now, and we'll need to do it everytime theres an errata.  Most people dont play tournaments, so many of us never bothered with checking errata anyway. Needing to now look at rules before playing is an additional complication

Putting aside the hyperbolic "hours" for now, if the problem is the time it takes then the solution is the app. I know you've already said you dislike the app for...some other reason, but at this point it just feels as though you're trying really hard to find issues with what is a fairly common approach to miniature gaming.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×