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Commander Kaine

2.0 is kind of a mess

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Starting with Advanced Sensors, which was changed recently, the game is filled with things that look... weird. Jam is weird (read: utterly useless), and was likely also changed relatively late in the design process. Some of the pricing is ludicrous, like truly. 

Overall, the whole edition looks like it was thrown together in haste, without testing, and the wording of various cards brings the usual FFG quality. 

The attempts of reworking the language of the game have failed. The new method is inconsistent, and various problems exist because of unclear phrasing. (Like rebel gunner Han)

 

What I'm getting at, is that even though I love the idea of most things in 2.0, there was not a single thing that convinced me that we should all be happy forever, because FFG has CHANGED. 

 

Look, there were problems with X-wing in 1.0, and most of those are fixed. (Great!) However, those problems did not emerge from nothing... They are the result of the people working on it, and the circumstances around them. If those parts are problematic, the flaws will seep through again and again, no matter how many times you start over. 

 

The miniatures department probably still lacks people, the staff is probably still overworked. Their ability to create a unified simple lingo didn't improve. Their overall work ethic remains on the same level. There aren't fewer mistakes... 

 

So as much as X-Wing has changed, FFG hasn't. So any problems you had, not directly tied to certain mechanics (like turrets) are likely to stay the same. 

 

 

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Just now, Scopes said:

Wow. Just wow. Not even sure where to start. 

 

All the braying about needing 2.0...

I'm not saying 2.0 is worse than 1.0.... not by a long shot. I'm happy it exists. 

But it has problems, some of the same problems 1.0 had. If I'm paying for the same game a second time, I think I have a solid base for criticism. 

 

 

Sorry if my ability of experiencing DEGREES is triggering you. Things can be good AND bad. 

Image result for the more you know

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A lot of "probably"s flying around

Look, ffg ain't the best and obviously problems are going to inveitably arise. Just gotta hope they've put enough of a framework in to actually fix the game instead of throwing out $30+ patchwork expansions 

But for now, there's nothing atrociously abusive (and I've spent WAY too much time looking for such things). Every time I manage to eck out full mods, it's on an expensive 1-agi platform that'll get Swiss Cheesed if not flown properly

Only real issues I've had with the current prerelease state of the game can be remedied easily with the app (Ks need sensor slots, rebel crew need SHARP price reductions because Kanan != Vader) 

Well that and howlie + iden may be a problem, but my dice are also catastrophically terrible so I always pack trajectory Sims 

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37 minutes ago, Commander Kaine said:

The miniatures department probably still lacks people, the staff is probably still overworked. Their ability to create a unified simple lingo didn't improve. Their overall work ethic remains on the same level. There aren't fewer mistakes... 

 

You forgot to add that the forums are still filled with just as many complainers as before. 

 

Just sayin’. :P 

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5 minutes ago, TasteTheRainbow said:

Take this righteous, uppity, childish nonsense over to the Attack Wing boards or whatever game you actually play. 

How about you guys actually read what I write. 

 

Whenever I post something, people come here attacking me personally for not at all controversial posts. I didn't write about game balance, I didn't write about the GAME... I wrote about the company making the games, and the quality of the product. 

As in actual quality, like changing stuff around without checking everything (Genius), making mistakes in wording, etc. 

 

Listen. If you don't like me, don't read the post. 

If you disagree with me, say that, and tell me why

If you gonna sass me, you are getting sassed back. 

 

Don't come here complaining that my style is atrocious, when you people can't engage normally. If you don't think I am worthy, that's fine... Go away. If you still comment however, don't be surprised when you get stuff like this. Childish comments deserve childish responses.

 

There is ample proof on these forums that I CAN engage in normal discussion with people. You don't have to if you don't want to, just don't complain if I play along. 

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Just now, Captain Lackwit said:

Yeah but we all know you're still gonna' buy and play it, Kaine.

Already have. This is not a post about hating 2.0. It's about realizing that 2.0 isn't going to be the promised land. Apparently some people can't tell the difference between these two positions. 

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Just now, Commander Kaine said:

Already have. This is not a post about hating 2.0. It's about realizing that 2.0 isn't going to be the promised land. Apparently some people can't tell the difference between these two positions. 

True, but look at it this way man. all costs and slots are handled digitally. This means it will only get better and more refined as time goes on.

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So as someone who hasn't been on much recently, I saw the stormtrooper and thought, "Oh, this guy again. Great." Now sure there are problems. There always will be, and hopefully they try to fix them. But ****, you sure don't seem like someone who's happy to have a 2nd edition or enjoys anything but riling people up. 

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I don't think this shows the result of being rushed. Just the result of being a massively large project with many different pieces to keep track of. It's not entirely surprising some weird edge cases slipped through.

From a "get it right the first time" standpoint, they would have been better off not doing the massive conversion kits, and instead only converting the ships that were released with each wave. That would have allowed for focusing down on a smaller number of variables and making sure everything was as solid as could be at launch.

Of course, that would have killed the game, as suddenly people would have large collections that were pretty much entirely useless until such time as subsequent expansions and their accompanying conversion kits came out.

So they had to compromise, and attempt to convert all existing ships for the initial release (they did manage to cut this back a bit by waiting on Resistance, First Order and Epic, but that's not much of a cut-down).

The things that are messed up feel more like the kind of thing that happens when the team changes wording in the rules somewhere, and just misses a couple weird cases where everyone already knew how they were intended to work, so missed that the new rules wording makes the weird cases very confusing. Fortunately, even those weird cases shouldn't require major alterations to clarify and resolve.

At least they now have the ability to retroactively change things like costs and upgrade slots to adjust as things change over time.

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gee its like no matter how you try a game will always have issues.

Even if a game is praised as being an outright insanely amazing game its going to have issues, be it buggy behavior in a video game or unclear verbage here and there in a boardgame or balance tuning not being perfect in ANY game.

2.0 is a massive improvement to 1.0 Is it perfect? H E L L N O its not. There are numerous flops in design, but they are incredibly minor compared to 1.0.

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Yeah, exactly. It's the same designers, at the same company, working with the same playtesters. The outcome is going to look pretty similar.

 

The main thing that I'm interested in is that they have added a bunch of new capabilities to fix stuff after the fact.

 

Adding more ways to patch the game won't make it more elegant or the rules better worded, but it should make it better to play in practice.

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Just now, Captain Lackwit said:

True, but look at it this way man. all costs and slots are handled digitally. This means it will only get better and more refined as time goes on.

You are preaching to the choir. I fangirled all over that, as well as Punishers, Bombers and the various new crew imps have. I even did some heretical fangirling over Boba Fett and some rebel stuff. 

 

1 minute ago, PenguinBonaparte said:

So as someone who hasn't been on much recently, I saw the stormtrooper and thought, "Oh, this guy again. Great." Now sure there are problems. There always will be, and hopefully they try to fix them. But ****, you sure don't seem like someone who's happy to have a 2nd edition or enjoys anything but riling people up. 

Yeah, well, I don't really care about your biases. I've made posts being happy about 2.0. Usually those don't stick around for days/weeks. I'm not sure if that is my fault. What I SEEM, is not what I am. And if you looked closer, you might actually be able to tell. 

And yes problems exist. Is it still okay to talk about them? Or is that necessarily trolling, as some of you have clearly pointed it out. 

2 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

I Disagree

Great. That is your right. Notice how I don't think that you are wrong or a garbage person for having a different opinion? 

6 minutes ago, Freeptop said:

I don't think this shows the result of being rushed. Just the result of being a massively large project with many different pieces to keep track of. It's not entirely surprising some weird edge cases slipped through.

From a "get it right the first time" standpoint, they would have been better off not doing the massive conversion kits, and instead only converting the ships that were released with each wave. That would have allowed for focusing down on a smaller number of variables and making sure everything was as solid as could be at launch.

Of course, that would have killed the game, as suddenly people would have large collections that were pretty much entirely useless until such time as subsequent expansions and their accompanying conversion kits came out.

So they had to compromise, and attempt to convert all existing ships for the initial release (they did manage to cut this back a bit by waiting on Resistance, First Order and Epic, but that's not much of a cut-down).

The things that are messed up feel more like the kind of thing that happens when the team changes wording in the rules somewhere, and just misses a couple weird cases where everyone already knew how they were intended to work, so missed that the new rules wording makes the weird cases very confusing. Fortunately, even those weird cases shouldn't require major alterations to clarify and resolve.

At least they now have the ability to retroactively change things like costs and upgrade slots to adjust as things change over time.

See, this positivity is great, I'm just not sure they deserve it. They have the ability to change things sure, but having the ability to do something, and doing it, is not the same. I'll say what I've said in the OP. I haven't been convinced that the new system will necessarily result in changes apart from mechanics. I'm open to having my mind changed.  just need to see some evidence. 

About the reasons: Sure, it might be, and you could be right. I don't think it really matters. 

6 minutes ago, Vineheart01 said:

gee its like no matter how you try a game will always have issues.

Even if a game is praised as being an outright insanely amazing game its going to have issues, be it buggy behavior in a video game or unclear verbage here and there in a boardgame or balance tuning not being perfect in ANY game.

2.0 is a massive improvement to 1.0 Is it perfect? H E L L N O its not. There are numerous flops in design, but they are incredibly minor compared to 1.0.

That... was my point. 

And you know. Having flaws can be expected, but they are never welcome. And as I've said before, I made posts raving about how amazing the game is. I also made posts about the flaws. I'm not sure what's the problem.

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1 hour ago, Commander Kaine said:

Overall, the whole edition looks like it was thrown together in haste, without testing

I don't see that. Don't forget board game cannot go beyond alpha testing.

 

1 hour ago, Commander Kaine said:

Some of the pricing is ludicrous, like truly.  

Pricing is meant to change with meta game, so not very relevant point.

Yeah, there is point that can be upgraded. I will go with xwing because it is my favourite game besides all its weaknesses. Thanks the almighty that I was too poor to buy warhammer before "age of sigmar".

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11 minutes ago, Commander Kaine said:

Yeah, well, I don't really care about your biases. I've made posts being happy about 2.0. Usually those don't stick around for days/weeks. I'm not sure if that is my fault. What I SEEM, is not what I am. And if you looked closer, you might actually be able to tell. 

And yes problems exist. Is it still okay to talk about them? Or is that necessarily trolling, as some of you have clearly pointed it out. 

Perhaps I'm wrong, hard to tell, but if this were a writing class I'd say to work on the tone. Seems like a lot of people are, fairly or unfairly, interpreting your comments in a similar way and so if you want them to be read differently maybe try a different strategy.

Edited by PenguinBonaparte

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14 minutes ago, CrippleCrit said:

The whole thing feels rushed and looks like it would have needed just one more year to finish. 

In the end someone has to pay for putting the devs into the basement for a whole year without any return.  While they keep the first edition running. Guess they couldn't or didn't want to afford that

Edited by flooze

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