Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
>kkj

So how could they do Clone Wars in Armada?

Recommended Posts

8 hours ago, Forresto said:

Why would they plan to release a $200 expansion pack, a massive investment, before the release of a 2.0, forcing you to buy conversion kits on something you just sunk a huge amount of cash into? They wouldn't.

You’re looking at it the wrong way. The SSD would probably be the CAUSE of going to an Armada 2.0 system.

I don’t know anyone in game/creative design who would be happy with the scale of the SSD in comparison to what’s already out there for Armada. To make it worse, everything new being introduced in the movies is “bigga and moar bettah.” 

It makes total sense to go to an Armada 2.0 with the SSD being the only ship that doesn’t require a smaller model to adapt to the system. You announce a new Armada starter box with smaller ships (but you get more of them) focusing on the Clone Wars era before next year’s Gen Con, keep the eras seperate in playing until you’re done rolling out Clone Wars ships, do the OT era, then move on into the sequel era (by then the last movie will be out) all on the same smaller scale, only the SSD never changes.

Makes sense to me. I own everything in Armada right now, but would happily buy smaller models to play with something like this that can incorporate huge ships in a better design. Plus by the time they start rolling out waves of the new trilogy stuff the options for just the factions alone would be incredible and diversify the game.

It’ll sting at first, but longterm it’s what would be best for Armada.

Edited by Flavorabledeez

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Flavorabledeez said:

You’re looking at it the wrong way. The SSD would probably be the CAUSE of going to an Armada 2.0 system.

I don’t know anyone in game/creative design who would be happy with the scale of the SSD in comparison to what’s already out there for Armada. To make it worse, everything new being introduced in the movies is “bigga and moar bettah.” 

It makes total sense to go to an Armada 2.0 with the SSD being the only ship that doesn’t require a smaller model to adapt to the system. You announce a new Armada starter box with smaller ships (but you get more of them) focusing on the Clone Wars era before next year’s Gen Con, keep the eras seperate in playing until you’re done rolling out Clone Wars ships, do the OT era, then move on into the sequel era (by then the last movie will be out) all on the same smaller scale, only the SSD never changes.

Makes sense to me. I own everything in Armada right now, but would happily buy smaller models to play with something like this that can incorporate huge ships in a better design. Plus by the time they start rolling out waves of the new trilogy stuff the options for just the factions alone would be incredible and diversify the game.

It’ll sting at first, but longterm it’s what would be best for Armada.

If Armada goes to a 2.0, FFG will not change the scale of the models, basically forcing everyone to purchase everything again. They didn’t even do that for X-Wing 2.0, for a game that is their biggest moneymaker. I love this game, but if they move to a 2.0 that makes my current miniatures obsolete, I will not buy into such a system.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, Admiral Calkins said:

If Armada goes to a 2.0, FFG will not change the scale of the models, basically forcing everyone to purchase everything again. They didn’t even do that for X-Wing 2.0, for a game that is their biggest moneymaker. I love this game, but if they move to a 2.0 that makes my current miniatures obsolete, I will not buy into such a system.

Yeah. You see the same way of thinking over on the X-wing forums. Granted there’s a difference between buying cardboard and all new models, but people are getting over it. 

I think if it’s rolled out steadily and in a smart way people would take to it, but to each their own.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The main issue here doesnt seem to be how they would introduce the models into the game. Its peoples inherant disliking of the concept that they have to play with something that isnt from 4-6, because they are a bunch of cultists really. Blind faithfulness to the OT wont bring new people on board the game. There are those who grew up watching 1-6, rather than the other people who see it as a prequel series... it is a single series. And they want to play with more than just grey space triangles and brown pickles. Introducing the ships into a Republic/Empire/First Order and CIS/Rebellion/Resistance groupings gives variety, enhances options, and provides the ability to have self governed factions. If, later on they feel it needs to be seperated out for, whatever reason, then conversion kits is the best approach.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Ling27 said:

The main issue here doesnt seem to be how they would introduce the models into the game. Its peoples inherant disliking of the concept that they have to play with something that isnt from 4-6, because they are a bunch of cultists really. Blind faithfulness to the OT wont bring new people on board the game. There are those who grew up watching 1-6, rather than the other people who see it as a prequel series... it is a single series. And they want to play with more than just grey space triangles and brown pickles. Introducing the ships into a Republic/Empire/First Order and CIS/Rebellion/Resistance groupings gives variety, enhances options, and provides the ability to have self governed factions. If, later on they feel it needs to be seperated out for, whatever reason, then conversion kits is the best approach.

Thematically, I prefer Armada stay in the GCW era, and if PT or ST factions are eventually introduced, I would like them to be their own separate games (like SWA: CW).  Again, thematically, I just don't like the idea of the CIS fighting the First Order.  Even if you just have the two groupings you mentioned, for example, the goals and methods of the Republic and the First Order seem far too different to be lumped in together in the same faction.  And that preference for the GCW does not make me or anyone else a cultist in the least bit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Cult: refers to a social group defined by its religious, spiritual, or philosophical beliefs, or its common interest in a particular personality, object or goal.

"I dont want Armada to have the ships from CW and ST, because I prefer the lore of GCW... even though there is only like, two space battles on screen in GCW, and the 40 years of books that were written were removed from canon."

Sounds like a cult. The Star Wars community is a cult, it always will be. Its just different thoughts on the concepts of said cult. Theme has nothing to do with it. The question was, how do? I provided the answer to how, and it would work. Does it have to work? Not at all. But I'd have rather gotten a ship for both sides than the SSD for one. I would rather have a Venator and a Providence than the SSD. Because thats stuff for both sides. Does every player need to get them? No. But two, forty dollar ships would pull more money and attention from those who like the CW stuff than the SSD, which is famous for... looking big... and getting blown up by one AWING.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Ling27 said:

Cult: refers to a social group defined by its religious, spiritual, or philosophical beliefs, or its common interest in a particular personality, object or goal.

"I dont want Armada to have the ships from CW and ST, because I prefer the lore of GCW... even though there is only like, two space battles on screen in GCW, and the 40 years of books that were written were removed from canon."

Sounds like a cult. The Star Wars community is a cult, it always will be. Its just different thoughts on the concepts of said cult. Theme has nothing to do with it. The question was, how do? I provided the answer to how, and it would work. Does it have to work? Not at all. But I'd have rather gotten a ship for both sides than the SSD for one. I would rather have a Venator and a Providence than the SSD. Because thats stuff for both sides. Does every player need to get them? No. But two, forty dollar ships would pull more money and attention from those who like the CW stuff than the SSD, which is famous for... looking big... and getting blown up by one AWING.

First of all, please use my actual quote from above if you are going to try to argue against it.  Secondly, I did present a solution for the “how do,” but you seemed to have missed that.  And yes, theme had something to do with why I put forth that specific solution.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I hope they do Clone wars. I have 2-3 friends that will buy in if they do. Also, I know enough people in the younger generation prefer that Clone war era to GCW. The movies are not better, but between the Clone wars cartoon and the overall big picture lots of people like the time better. Lots of people watched Ep1-3 before 4-6, especially if they were being released when growing up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Admiral Calkins said:

If Armada goes to a 2.0, FFG will not change the scale of the models, basically forcing everyone to purchase everything again. They didn’t even do that for X-Wing 2.0, for a game that is their biggest moneymaker. I love this game, but if they move to a 2.0 that makes my current miniatures obsolete, I will not buy into such a system.

This is the train of thought FFG used with X-Wing 2.0

X-Wing has been out for twice as long as armada and needed a 2.0, really the only thing Armada "Needs" is a cheaper core set and more expansions!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So here is what FFG COULD do is what was suggested in the past. They can split the starter the issues is new packaging. 

Now they could easily set up a "Battle for ____" box set that comes with new objectives different ship variants and new obstacles. Suddenly we will complain about another "omg we have to buy this. . . " but what we will miss is that this is basically a partial starter set. 

 

CC was basically a partial starter set for instance. People get most EVERYTHING in that set they need and can cherry pick ships. They miss out on what half of the objectives, models, cards, and maybe some obstacles?

 

Currently I contend that the barrier of entry into armada is NOT high but selective.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Triangular said:

I wouldn't do new factions for Star Wars: Armada. I would make it a new core set Clone Wars: Armada. It would be interchangeable for casual game, but I think balancing is easier if official games are separated.

 

7 hours ago, >kkj said:

Im sure FFG does not want to create a direct competitor to Armada. If they do a Clone Wars: Armada it would have to be playable against normal Armada.

That's exactly what I said! Cross-era games should be possible for casual gaming. But CW:A also should come with its own design and its own flavor!


There is a huge issue with Uniques that exist in more than one era. Can you bring design a "Clone Wars: Armada" without "Anakin Skywalker"? But can you just ignore that he is the same person as "Darth Vader" in OT? Would you design a Sequel Area faction of Resistance without Han Solo and Leia Organa, because they are unique and already in OT-era factions? Admiral Ackbar is even in all three eras! Is he always adding two red dice to side arcs?

Also, I think it will be very hard to build up 1-2 faction that can compete with the existing factions which already have had 7 waves (Rebels: 20 ship cards, 12 squadron types, 21 aces / Imperials: 18 ship cards, 13 squadron types, 22 aces). When a new core set for PT would bring two new ships and a new squadron for the Republic and you would be allowed to use Pelta, Gozantis, Headhunters and Y-wings, you would still have less than 1/3 of ships, 1/4 of squadrons, and nearly no aces. And a Separatists faction is even worse, because there's nothing they could use in Armada for now.

I really wouldn't mix the eras. Use the same movement tools and core design. But make them having their own dice and upgrade-slots. Make it work Republic against Separatists without worrying about Rebels and Imperials. I think that's not only easier to balance. It also would have more flavor and more satisfying game experience!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

Debatable if he’s correct, though 

I mean, its now cannon that Vader has suppressed his Anakin side to the point where its almost two personalities warring with each other. In the book Vadre shows that "The Jedi's" thoughts and feelings manifest while encountering things of the past

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I keep saying this, but going to the prequels creates lots of issues.

I highly doubt FFG will support 4 factions for this game.  Most people collect 1 faction, and releasing new factions isn't likely to increase the number of players in a significant way.  So you are doubling your cost of operation without any gain in player generated revenue.  Bad marketing step.

Producing twice as many models, characters, etc in such a way to keep the old faction players happy while supporting the new factions would be difficult, and we've seen how little effort they put into supporting the two factions they already have.  This would be a massive overhaul of how they handle this IP.

Beyond that, separate factions would need a LOT of work to catch up and be competitive.  The exiting factions have 7 waves of material.  You're talking 9-10 ships with 12-13 squadron types.  New factions would need to release the equivalent of waves 1-3 at the same time or in rapid succession to even be remotely competitive.  And then they'd need a quicker release schedule or more units per wave than the existing factions.  If you started doing new faction only stuff, then the existing faction players would feel slighted and might drop the game.

Beyond that you'd need some sort of character to imbue the other factions with to make them feel separate.  The Imp and Rebel ships don't feel, pilot, behave, fight the same.  They aren't carbon copies and both factions have their own character/presence.

 

But blending the prequel units into the existing factions is a problem also.  The Republic are the good guys for 2.5 movies and their ships are the basis for the Empire.  The separatists are a separate faction all together that doesn't blend to either the rebels or the Imps.  We tend to think of the Republic as the good guys and would naturally want to bond them to the Rebels....however many of the main characters (commanders, officers, etc) are people like Tarkin, who already exist on the current Imperial faction.  The ships, technology, design philosophy all seems to match more to the Empire, which makes sense as it is the faction that gave rise to the Empire.  However, having Obi-Wan in the Imperial faction makes little sense.  And if you do that, you are siding the Separatists with the Rebels, which means you have Dooku, Grevious and such allying with the Rebels which makes little sense as they are clearly the bad guys.


By moving into the new trilogy instead of the prequel trilogy however, you alleviate all these issues.  The factions make sense and blend well.  The ships, squadrons, and main characters all match easily without any weird combinations that defy logic.  You wouldn't need to start them off as completely separate factions, so no need to do massive releases.  Plus, you still encourage existing players to buy into the new releases.

Moving into the prequel trilogy risks business mistakes, alienation of customers, and all sorts of canon missteps.  Moving into the new trilogy is safe, logical, and easy.

Now that's not to say that we can't see some prequel content.  But I'd think it would be more likely to be cherry picked pieces.  Tossing an Acclamator to the Imps with a Tarkin officer makes sense.  Giving the Rebels a set of Naboo squadrons would be fine.  By cherry picking a few units and commanders and not calling it an separate faction gives them the ability to mix and match stuff to add to the game in a way that makes sense.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, kmanweiss said:

I keep saying this, but going to the prequels creates lots of issues.

I highly doubt FFG will support 4 factions for this game.  Most people collect 1 faction, and releasing new factions isn't likely to increase the number of players in a significant way.  So you are doubling your cost of operation without any gain in player generated revenue.  Bad marketing step.

 

We are talking about Armada right? Where to get the best of all things or to have all the options you have to get just about everything right? 

I mean they COULD do ARQ for the Republic with different upgrades and titles or even change the nav chart somewhere showing that republic doctrine was different in how the engines were used.

As for collecting one faction (stars at the pretty interdictor and the MC30. . . ) what?

48 minutes ago, kmanweiss said:

Producing twice as many models, characters, etc in such a way to keep the old faction players happy while supporting the new factions would be difficult, and we've seen how little effort they put into supporting the two factions they already have.  This would be a massive overhaul of how they handle this IP.

Actually pretty easy with expansions and new objectives. . . REALLY easy once you get the ships out there.After a while we would want a new ship here or there but honestly you give us new squadrons variants and BOOM whole new ball game!

49 minutes ago, kmanweiss said:

Beyond that, separate factions would need a LOT of work to catch up and be competitive.  The exiting factions have 7 waves of material.  You're talking 9-10 ships with 12-13 squadron types.  New factions would need to release the equivalent of waves 1-3 at the same time or in rapid succession to even be remotely competitive.  And then they'd need a quicker release schedule or more units per wave than the existing factions.  If you started doing new faction only stuff, then the existing faction players would feel slighted and might drop the game.

Separatists have a variety of vessels in Legends and Cannon to be used. They dont need to be relevant just to have enough variety to excel. Since we are talking droids here we dont really need a ton of different squadrons. Antiship designed Vultures, Antisquadron Vultures, Buzz Droids, Droid range extenders for relay, tons of variants and I get you they could design them too (Whats that the Raider was ffg made :P )

52 minutes ago, kmanweiss said:

Beyond that you'd need some sort of character to imbue the other factions with to make them feel separate.  The Imp and Rebel ships don't feel, pilot, behave, fight the same.  They aren't carbon copies and both factions have their own character/presence.

But blending the prequel units into the existing factions is a problem also.  The Republic are the good guys for 2.5 movies and their ships are the basis for the Empire.  The separatists are a separate faction all together that doesn't blend to either the rebels or the Imps.  We tend to think of the Republic as the good guys and would naturally want to bond them to the Rebels....however many of the main characters (commanders, officers, etc) are people like Tarkin, who already exist on the current Imperial faction.  The ships, technology, design philosophy all seems to match more to the Empire, which makes sense as it is the faction that gave rise to the Empire.  However, having Obi-Wan in the Imperial faction makes little sense.  And if you do that, you are siding the Separatists with the Rebels, which means you have Dooku, Grevious and such allying with the Rebels which makes little sense as they are clearly the bad guys.

 Venerator, Acclamator, Paladin, and many other ships. Sure they are the basis of the Empire but they are designed differently. The Ven was more squadron heavy than the VSD and as we say they were very side arc oriented so here we have a possible Speed 3 Squad 4 Ship that has lots of blue dice or even lot of red dice, change the speed around and voila its different than the Whale. Tons of characters from Clone Wars to be used. I mean they brought the GSD from the olds Droids cartoon! They got options.

1 hour ago, kmanweiss said:

By moving into the new trilogy instead of the prequel trilogy however, you alleviate all these issues.  The factions make sense and blend well.  The ships, squadrons, and main characters all match easily without any weird combinations that defy logic.  You wouldn't need to start them off as completely separate factions, so no need to do massive releases.  Plus, you still encourage existing players to buy into the new releases.

Moving into the prequel trilogy risks business mistakes, alienation of customers, and all sorts of canon missteps.  Moving into the new trilogy is safe, logical, and easy.

Now that's not to say that we can't see some prequel content.  But I'd think it would be more likely to be cherry picked pieces.  Tossing an Acclamator to the Imps with a Tarkin officer makes sense.  Giving the Rebels a set of Naboo squadrons would be fine.  By cherry picking a few units and commanders and not calling it an separate faction gives them the ability to mix and match stuff to add to the game in a way that makes sense.

The "new trilogy" has a grand total of 2-3 First Order ships and what 2-3 squadrons? while the New Republic had their fleets decimated? Yea. . . REALLY 

You do realize that there are MANY players that would love to play a Sovereign-Class or watch Trident-class ships ram kill enemy ships? **** they could even reuse many of the upgrades to allow those of us who want all of the factions to have extra cards to give out or save or for the new players to not have to go buy an SSD or VSD to get Flight Controllers

 

As for cherry picking. . . nah. No thanks. I will take a new faction please! Then I can argue the joys of each style

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Flavorabledeez said:

You’re looking at it the wrong way. The SSD would probably be the CAUSE of going to an Armada 2.0 system.

I don’t know anyone in game/creative design who would be happy with the scale of the SSD in comparison to what’s already out there for Armada. To make it worse, everything new being introduced in the movies is “bigga and moar bettah.” 

It makes total sense to go to an Armada 2.0 with the SSD being the only ship that doesn’t require a smaller model to adapt to the system. You announce a new Armada starter box with smaller ships (but you get more of them) focusing on the Clone Wars era before next year’s Gen Con, keep the eras seperate in playing until you’re done rolling out Clone Wars ships, do the OT era, then move on into the sequel era (by then the last movie will be out) all on the same smaller scale, only the SSD never changes.

Makes sense to me. I own everything in Armada right now, but would happily buy smaller models to play with something like this that can incorporate huge ships in a better design. Plus by the time they start rolling out waves of the new trilogy stuff the options for just the factions alone would be incredible and diversify the game.

It’ll sting at first, but longterm it’s what would be best for Armada.

You miss my point I think. 

Not the model.

My point is the paper inside, the upgrades and such, for the SSD are for the system we have now. They would be obsolete in a new system similar to what X Wing has done.

You're telling me FFG has 2.0 planned but would release their most expensive product, the crown jewel of Armada or X-Wing, and have it already be obseolete in a year' time?

It wont matter how cheap a conversion kit is. Imagine how many customers they would lose if they just forked over two hundred and and had to spend more just to use it? 

2.0 means everything gets repackaged. Conversion kits and the like. That costs them money.

They've been sitting on the SSD awhile now. I imagine they would've waited a little if we were anywhere near a 2.0 overhaul.

Edited by Forresto

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, kmanweiss said:

I highly doubt FFG will support 4 factions for this game.  Most people collect 1 faction, and releasing new factions isn't likely to increase the number of players in a significant way.  So you are doubling your cost of operation without any gain in player generated revenue.  Bad marketing step.

There's also a large number who collect not only both factions but multiples of each ship. H*** look at all of the people that want MOAR buying ships from Mel's and all the people designing ships and factions on KDY. I think adding more factions adds the potential of appealing to some new players. Maybe not a number that you'd feel is significant but this is a niche market to begin with, pretty much any new growth is positive. Adding new factions wouldn't be any more expensive for FFGs production. I think it's pretty clear their already producing s*** as fast as they can. Why would they need to release ships for all 4 factions each wave, or even continue to use a wave system for releases? I think it's a great business opportunity.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's the thing: they're running out of ships.  The Dreadnought, the Dornean gunship, and the Venator and a handful of squadrons are about all we have left.  If Armada adds sequel content, we get maybe 3-5 more waves.  Every wave since wave 1 indicates Disney doesn't want the really fringe stuff.  If we get Hapan Battle Dragons or Corsec forces, I'll eat an X-wing in front of witnesses, and I don't think the rest of you truly expect them either.  Whether integrated into GCW or separate factions, whether you're for or against it, CW is going to happen if this game keeps going.  And true GCW-era content is eventually going to wind down.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, The Jabbawookie said:

Here's the thing: they're running out of ships.  The Dreadnought, the Dornean gunship, and the Venator and a handful of squadrons are about all we have left.  If Armada adds sequel content, we get maybe 3-5 more waves.  Every wave since wave 1 indicates Disney doesn't want the really fringe stuff.  If we get Hapan Battle Dragons or Corsec forces, I'll eat an X-wing in front of witnesses, and I don't think the rest of you truly expect them either.  Whether integrated into GCW or separate factions, whether you're for or against it, CW is going to happen if this game keeps going.  And true GCW-era content is eventually going to wind down.

I got the screen shot @Drasnighta you may have company some day

Edited by Lyraeus

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...