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Vulcan646

A Tiger Stalks His Prey Lore Discussion

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They got out hopes up by implying Kolat in the title then failed to deliver. So it's pretty impressive that the story was so enjoyable despite that disappointment.

It really felt like they were setting up Toturi to write someone else's name instead of Shoju's. It would have gone against his characterization thus far, but breaks from character happen during extreme situations and there's not situation more extreme than this. Still, I don't think he did despite them ending somewhat ambiguously in that regard.

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7 hours ago, DGLaderoute said:

When it comes to the Emperor, the concept of "cannot" applies only VERY rarely. The Emperor can marry whomever he pleases, and the Empire will accept it as just fine (unless they're prepared to rebel and overthrow him, but that's an EXTREME outside possibility in Rokugan). Now, that doesn't mean it won't end up being tragic or even terrible...but he CAN do essentially whatever he wants.

This might have changed, but in O5R, Hantei no Kami married a fishermans daughter - a heimin.

7 hours ago, Shiba Gunichi said:

The Pure Land Sect is.... really not likely to care.

The Mantis will be ALL ABOUT breaking with tradition. "Hey, Emperor Daisetsu, we gotcher back!"

Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the whole ethos of the PLS that all men are equal? Wouldn't the Emperor ignoring some accident of birth and choosing his successor based on actual merit just be confirmation of that? I could see an uptick in sect membership stemming from that, though I doubt much else.

"Hey, Emperor Daisetsu, you need more Great Clans to support your claim; we really want to be a Great Clan - win-win!"

Edited by Mangod

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@Suzume Chikahisa i love how you din't even mention your own clan champion as a possible candidate :D

Dragons are definitely outclassing Scorp when it comes to remaining inconspicuous while advancing their own agenda

-------

 kudos to the (soon to be former) emperor, he proved to be more far more interesting character than what we were originally led to believe.

i wouldn't be surprised if he caught wind of Kachiko's intentions and it prompted him to accelerate his plan to abdicate 

 

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18 minutes ago, mirrorcat said:

@Suzume Chikahisa i love how you din't even mention your own clan champion as a possible candidate :D

Dragons are definitely outclassing Scorp when it comes to remaining inconspicuous while advancing their own agenda

 

I resent that!

I totally mentioned Yokuni as a possible candiadte for regency!

One that the Hantei has absolutely no knowldge or reason to believe would make a decent regent...:D

Edit: Also, my I have no idea who my Daimyo actually is. At this point we only know the Sparrow exist...

Edited by Suzume Chikahisa

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I'm actually more surprised that no one has mentioned the almost throwaway line that Keade has let Toturi know she may be pregnant.

"Inwardly, Toturi winced at his own words. Your wife, Kaede, believes she may be with child, but is not yet certain…and yet, here you presume to give insight into the maturation of children. You are presumptuous, just as Sotorii said."

Bit of a flip on the mother but could we be getting Kaneka a little early

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Just now, Swordbreaker said:

Have we seen much of Shoju since his introduction? I've missed the last stories few since I haven't been able to pick up the last 3 packs.

Ne's appeared as a side character a few times but nothing PoV from him.

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Just now, Schmoozies said:

I'm actually more surprised that no one has mentioned the almost throwaway line that Keade has let Toturi know she may be pregnant.

"Inwardly, Toturi winced at his own words. Your wife, Kaede, believes she may be with child, but is not yet certain…and yet, here you presume to give insight into the maturation of children. You are presumptuous, just as Sotorii said."

Bit of a flip on the mother but could we be getting Kaneka a little early

Why not Tsudao?

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Just now, Schmoozies said:

Ne's appeared as a side character a few times but nothing PoV from him.

In that case, wasn't what little we've seen of him showing that he seemed to actually be concerned with the duties of his clan, directly contrasting Kachiko's ambition? Based on that, being declared regent plays more into Kachiko's hands than Shoju's.

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1 minute ago, Swordbreaker said:

In that case, wasn't what little we've seen of him showing that he seemed to actually be concerned with the duties of his clan, directly contrasting Kachiko's ambition? Based on that, being declared regent plays more into Kachiko's hands than Shoju's.

yup

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2 minutes ago, Schmoozies said:

I'm actually more surprised that no one has mentioned the almost throwaway line that Keade has let Toturi know she may be pregnant.

"Inwardly, Toturi winced at his own words. Your wife, Kaede, believes she may be with child, but is not yet certain…and yet, here you presume to give insight into the maturation of children. You are presumptuous, just as Sotorii said."

Bit of a flip on the mother but could we be getting Kaneka a little early

On that note... Is it safe for the child when the mother keeps entering in contact with the void?

 

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2 hours ago, mirrorcat said:

On that note... Is it safe for the child when the mother keeps entering in contact with the void?

Probably far more worrying for both Kaede and the possible child are the stress and lack of sleep.

Honestly, they may be high ranking samurai, but in this fiction Toturi and Kaede made me think of a young working class couple that went back to making ends meet after a short honeymoon (only “keep an empire from falling apart” instead of “make ends meet”).

Edited by Doji Tori

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I believe Shoju is up to a rough surprise with not!Daigotsu. Especially since this fic is soon after Heart of the Garden where we saw how not!Daigotsu knows things about people he really shouldn't. 

But yeah, as I can see it:

- Sotorii gathers allies, including Matsu Tsuko, and pulls a successful coup. Shoju dies defending not!Daigotsu, and he teleports away with Shahai into the Shadowlands. 

- Tsuko turns the defeated Toturi and his followers into ronin. Cue in the Legion of the Wolf. 

- The Empire plunges into chaos because Sotorii being Sotorii and his Empress Kachiko doing her stuff. 

- Not!Daigotsu goes to **** and back, ascends to true Daigotsuhood, returns to the Empire at the head of a huge Shadowlands army, makes the Crab join his cause because technically he is still the legitimate Emperor. 

- Daigotsu might inherit Togashi's role in the Second Day of Thunder with trying to take on Fu Leng and failing miserably. 

- Time to get those Onyx Empire notes, because why not. 

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1 hour ago, Suzume Chikahisa said:

I resent that!

I totally mentioned Yokuni as a possible candiadte for regency!

One that the Hantei has absolutely no knowldge or reason to believe would make a decent regent...:D

Edit: Also, my I have no idea who my Daimyo actually is. At this point we only know the Sparrow exist...

If Yokuni does end up being the Kami Togashi again, being the regent would actually be worse for him, given the historic nature of his prophetic foresight; the more directly involved with events he is, the less he can see into that situation. It's part of the reason he went into seclusion in the first place, to maximize his ability to predict things. Having to live in the capital and take a direct hand in tutoring the Emperor would probably be blinding for him.

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Not to offend anybody personally, but why are there so many theories here that assume all roads lead back to the story AEG told with the Scorpion Coup followed by the Clan War? There's enough changes currently that they could do anything they at all, but there seems to be a consensus that it will all work back to where it was before.

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9 minutes ago, Swordbreaker said:

Not to offend anybody personally, but why are there so many theories here that assume all roads lead back to the story AEG told with the Scorpion Coup followed by the Clan War? There's enough changes currently that they could do anything they at all, but there seems to be a consensus that it will all work back to where it was before.

Only because too many signs point to us headed in that direction.  As often as not the names being used are for convenience as much as anything else but we are definitely heading to a story where the Scorpion are in ascendance, and a fall will be needed from there as one clan clearly being in charge is bad for long term story, and inter-clan turmoil is already on the rise so a war seems inevitable. 

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2 minutes ago, Schmoozies said:

Only because too many signs point to us headed in that direction.  As often as not the names being used are for convenience as much as anything else but we are definitely heading to a story where the Scorpion are in ascendance, and a fall will be needed from there as one clan clearly being in charge is bad for long term story, and inter-clan turmoil is already on the rise so a war seems inevitable. 

I don't buy it. They've already changed plenty, such as Toturi as Emerald Champion, the Emperor's second son being born without the kidnapping, and everything to do with the Phoenix's plight and the Kaito, that they can do plenty without treading the same steps all over again. Working up to some form of civil war seems likely, but I don't see why it has to tread the same path all over again.

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3 minutes ago, Swordbreaker said:

I don't buy it. They've already changed plenty, such as Toturi as Emerald Champion, the Emperor's second son being born without the kidnapping, and everything to do with the Phoenix's plight and the Kaito, that they can do plenty without treading the same steps all over again. Working up to some form of civil war seems likely, but I don't see why it has to tread the same path all over again.

Thus why I said the names are being used inter-changably.  The Scorpion Clan Coup does not necessarily mean they will be trying to kill the emperor and take the throne for themselves, however when say Satorii pushes his claim over that of his younger brother I'm sure one of his sticking points will be that the Scorpion and Toturi have stolen his throne and placed his brother who they believed would be puppet they could control on it in his place.  When his loyalists rally around him and they succeed in taking the palace back they will surely refer to this as a failed coup attempt by the Scorpion and Lion (even though that was not their intent) thus the term is applied.

As I said for long term story you can't have one clan being in absolute power of the others and that is what we have with the Scorpion being the Imperial Regent, Shoju is the Emperor for all intents and purposes which makes any clan opposing him exceedingly dangerous.  So for the good of the overall story the Scorpion ascendance must be curtailed and in the turmoil of the aftermath of that fall, the Scorpion must come back in a new form, thus the Shinobi focused stronghold we are seeing.  There are also too many story flags pointing to a fall for Toturi (he's happily married, has achieved the position of Clan Champion despite his misgivings and now Emerald Champion) and frankly the whole Succession Decree written in his hand is too big a flag to ignore.  So from a story telling perspective those are story beats that are likely going to need to be revisited in some variation to move our story along.

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I'm still struggling with which claimant would be most beneficial story-wise for the Crab to support.  If Crab supports Sotorii we get conflict between Shoju and Kisada (which sounds awesome).  That seems likely considering the Scorpion have been less than friendly with the Crab and their allies the Crane are also unfriendly with the Crab.  So it would seem if Sotorii came to the Crab asking for assistance they are likely to accept.  Also the Crab are already close to open rebellion against the current Hantei considering their alliance with the piratical Mantis clan, and their displeasure with his lack of support.  It seems likely that they would consider not honoring his decree if doing so would mean supporting the status quo (the Scorpion clearly have been unsympathetic to the Crab so far).

Though if instead they choose to support Daisetsu that could make sense since the Crab would be less likely to care about tradition when considering the succession if it meant a stronger leader prevailed.  Sotorii has shown himself to be less than skilled both politically and martially.  Daisetsu as a child is untested so he's an unknown quantity though.  I guess it could go either way here, but if Crab did support Daisetsu that would move him closer to the Shadowland and Kuni Yori.  That seems like a fun route to pursue. 

 As a third option I guess Kisada could go all turbo-Kisada like in the last continuity and say only he was fit to sit on the throne. I like that less because I'm not sure how he'd expect that to work realistically.  More likely they'd back someone with an actual claim and ask that Crab be their trusted advisor thus elevating them and their concerns in the capital.

Either way if a claimant went south to petition for Crab support that would be the perfect excuse to have a Crab army march north. I think the writers could spin it either way depending on the circumstances of how the clan receives the news and are approached for support.  I still think Crab supporting Sotorii is the most likely.  I like the idea of Sotorii going south and Kisada showing him first hand the horrors beyond the wall.  Also the horrors in their own lands caused by Shadowlands incursions.  Maybe that could help the guy man up a bit and not be such an entitled snot.  I bet a Hantei hasn't visited the wall in a real long time.  That would be fun if as the story progressed Sotorii became more sympathetic as Daisetsu became less to sort of even out the portrayals a bit. 

ADD:  I know the title is a reference to the kata Hantei is performing in the fiction, but it's reused as the title for a reason.  My question is who is the Tiger in this scenario and who is the prey?

Edited by phillos

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47 minutes ago, phillos said:

I'm still struggling with which claimant would be most beneficial story-wise for the Crab to support.  If Crab supports Sotorii we get conflict between Shoju and Kisada (which sounds awesome).  That seems likely considering the Scorpion have been less than friendly with the Crab and their allies the Crane are also unfriendly with the Crab.  So it would seem if Sotorii came to the Crab asking for assistance they are likely to accept.  Also the Crab are already close to open rebellion against the current Hantei considering their alliance with the piratical Mantis clan, and their displeasure with his lack of support.  It seems likely that they would consider not honoring his decree if doing so would mean supporting the status quo (the Scorpion clearly have been unsympathetic to the Crab so far).

Though if instead they choose to support Daisetsu that could make sense since the Crab would be less likely to care about tradition when considering the succession if it meant a stronger leader prevailed.  Sotorii has shown himself to be less than skilled both politically and martially.  Daisetsu as a child is untested so he's an unknown quantity though.  I guess it could go either way here, but if Crab did support Daisetsu that would move him closer to the Shadowland and Kuni Yori.  That seems like a fun route to pursue. 

 As a third option I guess Kisada could go all turbo-Kisada like in the last continuity and say only he was fit to sit on the throne. I like that less because I'm not sure how he'd expect that to work realistically.  More likely they'd back someone with an actual claim and ask that Crab be their trusted advisor thus elevating them and their concerns in the capital.

Either way if a claimant went south to petition for Crab support that would be the perfect excuse to have a Crab army march north. I think the writers could spin it either way depending on the circumstances of how the clan receives the news and are approached for support.  I still think Crab supporting Sotorii is the most likely.  I like the idea of Sotorii going south and Kisada showing him first hand the horrors beyond the wall.  Also the horrors in their own lands caused by Shadowlands incursions.  Maybe that could help the guy man up a bit and not be such an entitled snot.  I bet a Hantei hasn't visited the wall in a real long time.  That would be fun if as the story progressed Sotorii became more sympathetic as Daisetsu became less to sort of even out the portrayals a bit. 

ADD:  I know the title is a reference to the kata Hantei is performing in the fiction, but it's reused as the title for a reason.  My question is who is the Tiger in this scenario and who is the prey?

This all depends on if they make backing one prince over the other a player choice or not, which seems highly likely, in which case it would boil down to number of wins per supporting side.

I can also see it play out several different ways. Satorii fleeing to the Crab and promising them support in return for their allegiance, or Daisetsu bucking trends and promising them all the resources they've been asking for.

Funniest thing is that the Crab stand to gain a great deal, but could also not intervene on either side and still remain mostly as they were.

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