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Vulcan646

A Tiger Stalks His Prey Lore Discussion

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YEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSS!

#DaisetsuForHeir

#TheEmperorWeNeed

#MakeRokuganGreatAgain

Also,

“He is…a determined young man,” Toturi finally offered.
“The perfect response, of course. Perfect in the same way that you could say that I have 
set a new standard for the performance of Tiger Stalks His Prey. It is true, but not necessarily 
flattering.”

is just hilarious.

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So, operating under the very reasonable presumption that Hantei Sotorii doesn't appreciate his position as heir presumptive taken from him, I don't think it's that much of a stretch for him to try to have Hantei Daisetsu whacked.  And if his brother is killed, or even severely wounded in the attempt, how well will Shahai take that?  What if she decides to really crack into the meishodo in order to try to stop a usurping eldest son?

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49 minutes ago, Tonbo Karasu said:

Unicorn - Shahai is suddenly in the position of being potential empress (!!), but there are many who might still consider the Imperial meishodo edict to be an insult to their clan, especially if Daisetsu is a Shugenja as his mirror universe counterpart.

Or not. Surely an Emperor cannot marry so outside of His station, and to a Meishodo practitioner, no less. 

That would be a tragic story, of a love that cannot be... or it can?

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1 minute ago, Tabris2k said:

Or not. Surely an Emperor cannot marry so outside of His station, and to a Meishodo practitioner, no less. 

That would be a tragic story, of a love that cannot be... or it can?

It would certainly serve to reinforce the view that the Unicorn are a part of the Empire, and would certainly turn the developing conflict with the Lion on its head.

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6 minutes ago, Tabris2k said:

Or not. Surely an Emperor cannot marry so outside of His station, and to a Meishodo practitioner, no less. 

That would be a tragic story, of a love that cannot be... or it can?

To be fair, she is the daughter of a major family daimyo, even if it's just a Unicorn family. A bit nontraditional compared to say, taking a Crane bride, but she's about as high of station as you can technically get I would think. Aside from maybe a Clan Champion or actual daimyo. 

Guess he could always marry Soshi Shiori, is she available? lol. 

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Oddly, one of my favorite touches in this story is also one of the most understated: the Emperor is abdicating because he has cataracts.

I love that because stories so often reach for the big, grand moves instead. But no -- his vision is failing him, and he's smart enough to know that compensating for that handicap would require him to trust the people around him. In another society that would work just fine . . . but not here. And Rokugan may have magic, but it can't fix everything, and cataracts are on the list of problems it can't solve. Other health problems, too, but that little touch about his vision just pleases me all out of proportion.

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We still don’t know how Daisetsu himself will react to the news. If Heart of the Garden is any indication he enjoyed, and knew how to exploit, the freedom that came with not being the next in line for succession. His entire way of life will change once the edict is made public.

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1 hour ago, Schmoozies said:

Mantis obviously this is a brilliant opportunity to garner support for Yoritomo's power play.  Which ever side is the most in need of support can be approached with the offer of troops and supplies and if needed a side deal can always be reached to sell them out if it looks like they are going to lose.  I do expect though that they will publicly fall in line with whichever side the Crab are supporting.

Hopefully it will make more sense than that ridiculous civil war that was crammed down our throats in Gold Ed.

But this is the way I see Mantis handling it.  I also expect we will take some Crane ports and coastal Holdings due to their poor management skills. 

 

1 hour ago, Manchu said:

If Hantei XXXVIII doesn't make it to court on the next day and that edict, written in Toturi's hand, is found ...

47 minutes ago, Schmoozies said:

Even worse should be Emperor be found murdered in his chambers after a meeting with his sons (after all I'm sure he doesn't plan to just blindside them with the announcement in the morning) and Sotorii pushes his theory that Toturi and Shoju are trying to usurp his rightful position.

41 minutes ago, Schmoozies said:

If the Emperor declares it than it must be true.  Especially if there is a handy conspirator like Kachiko around to support his assertion.

 

I would be more worried about the viper Kachiko looking at her husband and looking at that brat, Sotorii, and deciding to throw in with the Shadowlands bound twerp.

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1 hour ago, Doji Hyōkin said:

Well, Hantei XXXVIII ain’t wrong, I’ll give him that. Even ‘Big Picture’ Toturi can’t think of a better option...

Oh for sure.

Shoju is definitely the best option for regent and it's much more stable to abdicate rather than wait for the succession to be sorted out on the Emperor's death.

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1 hour ago, Radix2309 said:

But Shoju as Regent? This is such a shake up. Traditionally I feel like it would have been a Crane. But things have changed.

In the original lore I agree that this role most likely would be with the Crane.

As it stands currently, they are in no position to be made regent and Shoju makes the most logical sense as the Emperor's choice for regent. 

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1 minute ago, Vulcan646 said:

In the original lore I agree that this role most likely would be with the Crane.

As it stands currently, they are in no position to be made regent and Shoju makes the most logical sense as the Emperor's choice for regent. 

Good point. Maybe if Satsume hadn't suddenly died...

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This is really a nice twist.

i have to admit i am surprised, the entire time i thought the emperor was testing Toturi's reaction and expected him to chosen as the actual regent.

Genuinely curious to see what is his plan to deal with the elder son's reaction tomthe news and the conseguent civil war

Edited by mirrorcat

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6 minutes ago, mirrorcat said:

This is really a nice twist.

i have to admit i am surprised, the entire time i thought the emperor was testing Toturi's reaction and expected him to chosen as the actual regent.

Genuinely curious to see what is his plan to deal with the elder son's reaction tomthe news and the conseguent civil war

Hantei may very well have been testing Toturi to make that exact decision, thus part of why the edict hadn't been written yet. But Toturi failed (or "failed") by either being too "perfect" in his responses or in some other way, so Hantei proposed Shoju as the regent instead. And he likely had some inkling of how Toturi would react to that suggestion, as he still seems to be prompting for Toturi to give frank/honest responses, so maybe he intended to use that to try and nudge Toturi into putting himself down to be regent instead.

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5 minutes ago, Vulcan646 said:

In the original lore I agree that this role most likely would be with the Crane.

As it stands currently, they are in no position to be made regent and Shoju makes the most logical sense as the Emperor's choice for regent. 

It’s not only that they aren’t in a good position. Right know we don’t know of any Crane that has the Emperor’s personal trust, with the possible exception of Kakita Yoshi, who is already Chancellor.

He is not simply choosing a regent, he intends for that person to mentor his son. I think the Emperor approached the situation from an emotional perspective, and so he chose a close friend like Shoju (I could be wrong, maybe it was an objective decision).

 

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Bayushi Shoju is a better candidate for regent than Akodo Toturi. Toturi is a good man but as this story shows he is just barely mature enough for his current position. Shoju has so far shown himself to be a man of deep virtue.

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49 minutes ago, Vulcan646 said:

In the original lore I agree that this role most likely would be with the Crane.

As it stands currently, they are in no position to be made regent and Shoju makes the most logical sense as the Emperor's choice for regent. 

I agree. It is more a commentary of the current political climate.

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39 minutes ago, Manchu said:

Bayushi Shoju is a better candidate for regent than Akodo Toturi. Toturi is a good man but as this story shows he is just barely mature enough for his current position. Shoju has so far shown himself to be a man of deep virtue.

 

That is what we literary types call a 'Death Flag'.

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1 hour ago, Kinzen said:

Oddly, one of my favorite touches in this story is also one of the most understated: the Emperor is abdicating because he has cataracts.

I love that because stories so often reach for the big, grand moves instead. But no -- his vision is failing him, and he's smart enough to know that compensating for that handicap would require him to trust the people around him. In another society that would work just fine . . . but not here. And Rokugan may have magic, but it can't fix everything, and cataracts are on the list of problems it can't solve. Other health problems, too, but that little touch about his vision just pleases me all out of proportion.

You know, I find it really funny how, in every story where someone has seen the Emperor, they've thought about how pitiable he is; he is old, he is weak, he has lost the favor of Heaven, etc, etc...

And yet, we're also shown that, though his body is clearly failing him, he's not some doddering fool; quite the contrary. It just makes the tragedy of his situation sting that much more; if only he was a few years younger, he could still be the Emperor that the Empire needs. Alas.

And now he's stuck in a position where he's apparently counting each day as a blessing, having to choose between two heirs, one unfit, the other untrained, and has to appoint his closest friend as Regent, a position that the Emperor must know will only cause his friend problems. In short, Being Hantei XXXVIII is Suffering.

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Am I the only one who thinks this fiction is eerily reminiscent of a talk between Marcus Aurelius and Maximus from "Gladiator"? And Sotorii being exactly the type to pull Commodus on his dad? I have a BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAD feeling about all this situation.

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Regarding Shoju as regent Hantei XXXVIII didn't have much of a choice and Shoju is by far the best choice:

Kisada is a well established Daimyo but the Crab are on the periphery of Rokugani society, frequently at odds with the Crane and the Scorpion and the personal relationship between him and the Hantei seems strained.

Hotaru, too young and untested. The Hantei might also be aware of the tensions within the Crane. Had Satsume been around then everything would be different but he isn't. The Crane does provide a dark horse candidate in the person of Kakita Yoshi, but it is possible the Hantei see in him the same kind of cruelty Sotorii seems to have. There is also the issue that at this point the Crane doesn't seem to have the actual power to bolster the Imperial Family...

Yokuni is too much of a unknown quantity from a peripheral clan that keeps itself apart from the Empire.

Toturi is again too young and untested. However he as already proven himself far more adept than Hotaru and has become Emerald Champion. He is not the ideal regent but he is definitely somene whose buy-in you have to get.

Tsukune is, again, too young and untested. Setting up the Elemental Council has a regency value could be an option, but the think The Hantei would have serious reason to be wary of such move.

Altensarnai, on paper is established and experienced enough, but Unicorn leadership has proven itself to be a complete ***********, and even if it hadn't they are too non-traditional to become regents.

So Shoju is, by default, the best choice for regent.

Now one alternative The Hantei had was, instead of nominating a single regent, nominating a Regency Council, and in that case I would argue that the ideal council would be Shoju, Toturi and, due to the Crane's current weakness, Kisada. You have a mix of military and political might, institutional prestige, enfranchise the Crab and avoid showing too much favouritism to a single clan. The Crane would be hosed though and probably would fight like **** to create friction between the regents, but that is not necessarily a bad thing.

Having said that Hantei XXXVIII probably intends to use his staturs as retired emperor to smooth over the transition, but I would be very surprised if he isn't a dead man walking to trigger the next narrative development.

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