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HolySorcerer

An old grump watches the clone wars

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1 hour ago, Animewarsdude said:

Hope this helps

Using the Chronological Order list I'll try to go through the episodes without spoiling anything (hopefully) so you can use it a little bit as a guide. For episodes that form an arc I'll make note of those too. Granted, I'm doing this mostly off of memory so other people feel free to correct or point out episodes you feel are real important too. 

Listen to this guy @HolySorcerer

He‘s spot on. Season 5 finale is simply great! Also, go back to watch episode 3 after finisihing season 6 and it suddenly turns good. Like, actually good!

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3 hours ago, Animewarsdude said:

3-01: Clone Cadets - Good, though serves to give some characterization to the Clones we see in Rookies.

 

3 hours ago, Animewarsdude said:

1-05: Rookies - Building of Clone Cadets and is a near Clone only episode, so good.

 

3 hours ago, Animewarsdude said:

1-19, 1-120, 1-21: Ryloth Arc - Introduces Cham Syndulla and deals with the battles raging there.

 

3 hours ago, Animewarsdude said:

3-18, 3-19, 3-20: Citadel Arc - Anakin, Ahsoka, the clones from Rookies and others are sent to go and rescue Tarkin and Jedi Even Piell. 

3 hours ago, Animewarsdude said:

4-07, 4-08, 4-09, 4-10: Umbara Arc - Clone focused arc, especially so on Rex and is pretty great.

3 hours ago, Animewarsdude said:

6-01, 6-02, 6-03, 6-04: Order 66 Preview Arc - Pretty good, features some favorite Clone characters, and leads to Rex, and Fox making a choice that leads to something that was very briefly addressed in Rebels. 

Nailed together, these are basically a band-of-brothers esque story following the clones. A very good set.

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Have to agree that the entire series is very hit or miss, but I have to disagree on some points, surprisingly the Jar Jar episodes weren't that bad, there are far worse episodes that on paper sound like they should be cool, the entire mandalorian arc for instance was just boring, and I'll take Jar Jar Binks over Ashoka any day of the week, Ashoka is by far the worst character in Star Wars, honestly if I had her as a padawan I'd have turned to the dark side a lot sooner

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Everyone else has pretty much given you the breakdown, but I'll give you my personal take as someone who really enjoyed elements of the series but doesn't quite get the love a lot of the fans have for the whole thing.

There is exactly one good episode in the first season - Rookies (as others have already mentioned). The rest is irredeemable trash, but you might need to watch a few episodes just to see how annoying Ahsoka is at first.

The only other possible exception is the introduction of Cad Bane, when he attacks the Senate but I don't remember if that's the end of season 1 or the start of season 2.

10 hours ago, HolySorcerer said:

Here's hoping.  Does the animation and VO work improve, or just the story?

Yes, quite drastically I would say. I think it happens around season 3, but it might be 4 - I don't remember. 

Basically, it's around the time Ahsoka changes out of that stupid tube top and starts carrying two lightsabers around. The art style stays the same (that sort of hand painted wooden puppet look - YMMV on whether that's okay or not), but the animation gets a lot more fluid, the scenes more richly detailed and the dialogue gets better in terms of both content and delivery. 

This is also when Ahsoka starts becoming a decent character, and less of a pain in the *** to everyone around her.

Season 2 is better, but mostly only for the war movie bits on Geonosis. 

3 is where I remember starting to find it actually watchable.

4 is where it really starts to get good. The Umbara arc is basically worth sitting through the prior seasons alone. The Scum side of things start to get fleshed out a little more too, with a really good couple of episodes about Obi-Wan going undercover. Palaptine starts becoming more of a character too, and there starts to be some early hints towards the Empire.

5 is very good too. The last six episodes or so are really good, and if you can set aside your suspension of disbelief and accept Maul's return, the middle section is great too. Lot's of callbacks to the Scum side of the Legends EU there, including Black Sun and Kessel syndicates. If you liked Solo at all, you'll really appreciate this part of Clone Wars. 

If it were me, I'd just watch Rookies from season 1, Bounty Hunters and the Geonosis arc from season 2 and then start properly from season 3.

 

 

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Don't feel bad if you never get into the animation.  I love the series and enjoy Rebels as well, but the animation in both is blah to me.  (I'll take the original Clone Wars cartoon any day.) Story-wise, I think the show does grow on you and while Ahsoka has the best character development, the real highlights are the episodes focused on the clones (and some about their relationships with the other Jedi).  I feel like Disney is sitting on a huge hit titled something like "501st" that's a dark, live action movie like Rogue One, but about the clones, like this (not a real movie poster):

92e3e9c480cd42c1f59f23fd7596c13c6ec4e89e

Also, as others have said, Jar Jar episodes are questionable and droid episodes are barely tolerable at some point.  I think in one of the two last seasons there is an entire 5-episode arc of droid episodes that will have you clawing your eyes out.

Edited by dadocollin

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I think it is worth it to suffer through the initially annoying Ahsoka as it makes the payoff so much better. I would never have believed myself that I would ever care about her character, let alone that much! But season 5 is good story telling where the setting of Star Wars is a plus, and not the other way around anymore as it usually is.

I believe that some suffering is necessary for that huge payoff.

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48 minutes ago, dadocollin said:

I feel like Disney is sitting on a huge hit titled something like "501st" that's a dark, live action movie like Rogue One, but about the clones, like this (not a real movie poster):

92e3e9c480cd42c1f59f23fd7596c13c6ec4e89e

Also, as others have said, Jar Jar episodes are questionable and droid episodes are barely tolerable at some point.  I think in one of the two last seasons there is an entire 5-episode arc of droid episodes that will have you clawing your eyes out.

Oh man.... that would be a must-see film. Rogue One is still king of the Disney movies right now, but this could top it for me.

 

but yes - skip the droid arc entirely in the late seasons - it’s too painful to watch. And the arc is contained, meaning nothing before it is resolved within and nothing that comes after cares about it either. Just don’t watch it.

One of these days, when I have time, I’ll sit through clone wars again and rebuild the “this is how to watch it for max enjoyment” and note where to skip.

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1 hour ago, TasteTheRainbow said:

Some people have sort of a block where they can’t really get into cartoons. You gotta carve out an exception there for Dave Filoni.



Man, I really feel like an outlier whenever Clone Wars or Rebels comes up here.  I simply do not enjoy the vast majority of what Filoni has done.  I don't think I have a block to cartoons per se, but I do have a block against utterly childish nonsense that keeps getting shoehorned into these cartoons (see: any Jar-Jar / Droids episode, Hutt Farts, Zombie Mindslugs, Wrist-Rocket Slingshot, Flying Helicopter Lightsabers, Wolves that Hyperspace, etc. etc. etc.).

The characterization and character development also feels so flat and forced.  (Did ANYONE think Kallus wasn't Fulcrum?)  Characters are also insulated from death with more Plot Armor than a Tony-Stark Built Iron Man Suit inside a Hulkbuster Suit.  Ahsoka survives Order 66, Anakin's Fall, and being trapped in a room with Vader years later (thanks to mumbo-jumbo Time Travel that she then protests using to save anyone else....okay).  Rex similarly survives O66 the Rise of the Empire, Rebels, and the Galactic Civil War.  Also, Rex gets  fan-serviced into being at Endor, where he's some Commando chump despite having nearly 40 Years of active-combat command duty.  Like, why is that Rex taking commands from Smuggler Solo?

To me, Ahsoka personifies Filoni's Star Wars: a character implausibility wedged into the main storyline (she suddenly exists between Episodes II and III as the closest character to the main character of those Episodes), she is plot-armored to oblivion, and she is continually drug between project and project he is a part of, even when it requires crazy absurd time-travel nonsense (I'm sure we'll see her in Resistance) because he can't let the character go.

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23 minutes ago, HolySorcerer said:

Is chronological order the same as production order?  Was this the intended viewing order before idiots in suits started ******* with it because they had "market research"?

I think the guy who stuffed around with the order was probably wearing checked flannel at the time

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I find that the quality of the episodes depend on the characters the episodes focus on. The very best episodes are the ones where the clones are the stars. I was often amazed some of the material was included in a kids show (and just as amazed at how it was presented in a way that my kids wouldn't quite catch on how serious things were). On the other hand, if the episode focused on the droids on Jar Jar, you could pretty much skip it. 

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Just now, HolySorcerer said:

Is chronological order the same as production order?  Was this the intended viewing order before idiots in suits started ******* with it because they had "market research"?

No, I believe it was intended.

Or rather, in the case of some arcs they only had the idea for the earlier parts later in the run. 

The episode about the clone squad as cadets, for example, was obviously only thought up when they decided to make characters from the season 1 episode Rookiees recurring characters. They obviously decided they wanted an 'origin' story for them , to give more weight both to the original episode and to the characters moving forward.

Some of those decisions, like including a Senator in episodes produced after the episode where he was both introduced and murdered, seem a little strange, though. There's no reason the plot for those needed to be chronologically earlier, except for the inclusion of this character. 

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13 hours ago, HolySorcerer said:

Well I hate Asoka in rebels and was disappointed that Vader didn't kill her when he had the chance, so that's not looking good for me on this front.

 

Here's hoping.  Does the animation and VO work improve, or just the story?

The animation's rough in the beginning, the characters mouths barely move and don't seem to really form words. It does get significantly better, especially in character expression, but Rebels is far superior in terms of its animation.

In terms of story improvement, I really liked the Umbara arc. It's pretty good, pretty gritty, see a lot of clones going to work.

 

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17 minutes ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:


To me, Ahsoka personifies Filoni's Star Wars: a character implausibility wedged into the main storyline (she suddenly exists between Episodes II and III as the closest character to the main character of those Episodes), she is plot-armored to oblivion, and she is continually drug between project and project he is a part of, even when it requires crazy absurd time-travel nonsense (I'm sure we'll see her in Resistance) because he can't let the character go.

She’s also complex, has interesting POVs and motivations, and is able to change over time. To me, that is what his characters have over most animated series. I hope she’s in Resistance. We only saw the very end of Yoda’s arc. Ahsoka will also live through several human generations and I think that’s an interesting POV that Luke or Rey will never have.

 

The rest of that stuff about Jar-Jar and whatnot is part of the baggage of the franchise imo. There are no silly droid-like episodes in Avatar, The Last Airbender.

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I tried watching it a long time ago and bailed.

Now I have an 8-year-old son, and he loves it.  I'm almost through season 4, and I find that I'm enjoying it with him.  I'm still not sure I'd make it on my own, and there are episodes where I zone out sitting next to him.  Still, it has helped to fill out the Star Wars universe, and it does expose me to various new ships that I'd never seen before, which I assume I'll soon be seeing in X-wing.  I now no longer thing the Sheathipede is the dumbest addition to X-wing, and appreciate being able to for an ARC-170 even more.

I still haven't seen Rebels, but I'm sure my son and I will power through those.  I'm not exactly excited by the plot lines or animation, but time with my son doing something he loves is more than enough reason to check it out.  I expect some similar fringe benefits in my X-wing hobby.

If you don't have a kid to watch it with, good luck, I guess.  Use the fast forward button liberally, and don't feel bad about not watching every moment.  The general story arc, further Obi Wan and Anakin development, and the space combat scenes are at least worth pulling out of the series for adults.  Plus, maybe you won't totally hate Ahsoka by the time you're through.  (You'll hate Jar-Jar even more though.)

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1 hour ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:


To me, Ahsoka personifies Filoni's Star Wars: a character implausibility wedged into the main storyline (she suddenly exists between Episodes II and III as the closest character to the main character of those Episodes), she is plot-armored to oblivion, and she is continually drug between project and project he is a part of, even when it requires crazy absurd time-travel nonsense (I'm sure we'll see her in Resistance) because he can't let the character go.

 

I'd disagree. While I'm not 100% sure why the council wad like "Anakin needs a Padwan", she's mostly just a padwan. There's no ridiculous hidden back story that links her to Anakin and she's not some kind of weird prodigy, she's just a person assigned to follow and learn from a main character which occasionally gives an interesting perspective on events.

 

She also didn't feel any more plot armored than any other Jedi.

 

I don't think she's a great character, but she could have been so much worse and actually loses some of her more annoying mannerisms as the series wears on.

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1 minute ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:


Say what we will about Plot Armor in Star Wars generally, but no one has ever been saved from clear and certain death by time travel and teleportation portals before...

How DID Maul get off Naboo and 10 years later?

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17 minutes ago, Rakaydos said:

How DID Maul get off Naboo and 10 years later?

"The Dark Side of the Force is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be... unnatural."

I'm assuming he survived the same way that Darth Sion is shown to survive his deaths in KOTOR2: through pure hatred.

Edited by PhantomFO

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37 minutes ago, Rakaydos said:

Just saying, we dont KNOW time travel and teleportation wasnt involved.

Well, if He was going to time travel to stay alive, couldn’t he go just a bit farther back and keep himself intact rather than half the man he once was? I’m not sure how time travel in Star Wars works... would that break everything? 

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