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Tops and flops in 2.0 so far?

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1 hour ago, FriendofYoda said:

Played a couple of games with E-Wings and they're super fun and held up well. The dial is insane with r4 Astro and slopping to recharge elusive, then double tap with Corran and follow it up with a blue hard turn away is just glorious.

I had the opposite experience with the generic e-wing I flew. 61 points seems a bit overpriced. I will try it again to see how much was my poor skill, but for 1 more point you get the beast that is Luke Skywalker...

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1 hour ago, Ayleron said:

I had the opposite experience with the generic e-wing I flew. 61 points seems a bit overpriced. I will try it again to see how much was my poor skill, but for 1 more point you get the beast that is Luke Skywalker...

Yeah, the E-wings as a whole seem horrendously overpriced (again ?). The generic, as you say, is only a point less than Luke, and poor old Corran is competing directly with Supernatural Luke, which is absolutely insane.

Fortunately that can be easily fixed this time around, and it looks like there's a really good ship hiding underneath those wasted points this time around.

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  • Winner
    • Duchess. Dropping from the most expensive unique TIE/sk to the cheapest, and getting her ability amped to boost. Stack her with lone wolf or elusive depending on your play style and shove Fifth Brother in the co-pilot's seat. Whilst a stealth device or hull upgrade is nice, it's hard to pass up the joy of Afterburners, giving her truly ridiculous flexibility off a given move - optional ailerons, fixed move, optional afterburner boost, optional barrel roll.
  • Loser
    • I don't agree that the TIE/x1 is awful. 4 v 4 with X-wings, they've held their own (to my pleasant surprise) with Elusive/Fire Control System Storm Squadron Aces, and Darth Vader is....well....Darth Vader. The Tempest Squadron Pilot specifically, however, is bloody awful; lacking the initiative to reliably get its vital target locks (and trying and failing now leaves you with no useful tokens at all), lacking the talent slot to buy useful upgrades* and paying the agility 3 surcharge on modifications.

 

 

* Missiles aren't so hot for a TIE/x1:

  • Cluster missiles only give you a 3-dice attack (which you have anyway when locked), and a second unmodified 3 dice attack that probably won't justify spending the charge
  • Concussion missiles also only give you a 3-dice attack. Exposing a card is nice but pretty much comparable to advanced targeting computer's auto-crit. Removing the range 3 defence die is the only real advantage and that's not worth that many points.
  • Homing missiles are okay given how cheap they are, but since an opponent can just take 1 damage and lump it, it's a better buy for 2-dice bombers and TIE/v1. More importantly, range 2-3 lock-dependent missiles are an issue for I1 generics
  • Proton Rockets are focus-driven, which is nice, but that means they conflict with advanced targeting computer for action priority and points (Tempest at 41, Proton at 7 means no 3 point FCS in a 50 point 4-ship build)
  • Barrage Rockets need a second missile slot which the TIE/x1 doesn't have

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So far, out of my limited testing:

Top: Any firespray, the ship in general just seems extremely efficient. The natural boost coupled with the varies titles makes it a beast. In saying all this, I’m yet to try han gunner on boba yet and I’m super keen to do so.

Flop: Scum Han Solo Pilot. The ship it self handles differently... the lack of the 1 hards is noticeable, though the sloops are welcome. Setting up Hans ability is extremely difficult, even taking the largest obstacles, setting them up well and flying around them I found myself often missing the shots through them. The one good shot I managed to get was from dropping a rigged Cargo Chute on an enemy and shooting with 6 dice through it. Unfortunately it was at a defender and even with 5 hits I only managed to get a single damage through. It really is an all or nothing Ship which fits well with the gambling theme, but is going to take a lot of practice and skill to use effectively. 

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Tie Bomber and Tie X1 on the top ! Yes again both of them because : Better dial,pilots with a good price !

I still love my tie fighter and tie interceptor and will play with them with a Lambda shuttle (Admiral Sloane) but Tie Bomber and Tie Advanced give me news options I like it :)

 

 

 

Edited by Arkanta974

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yeah...gotta say that scum Lando/Han pilots feel like massive wastes of points. It's incredibly difficult to engineer scenarios in which you can squeak above their pathetic two-die primary (apart from a single round of Rigged Cargo), which makes them effectively useless for their cost

what's even worse is that Lando/Han crew/gunner are amazing, so there's no reason at all to take them as yt pilots

 

scum Falcon is probably going to be relegated to the role of feedback blocker, which it can accomplish for 50 points (51 for L3-37, who is probably worth it due to red boost, with optional Static Discharge Veins and Qi'ra for 59 points max)

 

on the more positive side, I believe Sol has dethroned Nym as the premier SCURRG!!!!!! pilot. Since he can drop devices with his ability, he can fart out bendy Prox Mines before anyone activates. He can also use "Genius" to side-wind protons before rolling out of the blast radius.

Edited by ficklegreendice

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7 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

yeah...gotta say that scum Lando/Han pilots feel like massive wastes of points.

Yikes, if the top Scum Falcon pilots don't feel worth their points, I feel sorry for the JumpMaster which is slightly more points than Lando and slightly less points than Han for a generic with worse weapons, worse dial, and an arguably worse basic statline...

49 points of Lando:
lando-calrissian.jpg

54 points of Han:
han-solo.jpg

52 points of Contracted Scout:
contracted-scout.jpg

Edited by Jarval

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Just now, Jarval said:

Yikes, if the top Scum Falcon pilots don't feel worth their points, I feel sorry for the JumpMaster which is slightly more points than Lando and slightly less points than Han for a generic with worse weapons, worse dial, and an arguably worse basic statline...

Punishing 1 is far easier to hit 3 dice with than Lando's Falcon, so eh

but yeah, the Jm5k dial is already plenty to pity

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2 minutes ago, Jarval said:

Yikes, if the top Scum Falcon pilots don't feel worth their points, I feel sorry for the JumpMaster which is slightly more points than Lando and slightly less points than Han for a generic with worse weapons, worse dial, and an arguably worse basic statline...

Never feel sorry for the Jumpmaster.  It should feel lucky just to get an invite to SE.

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1 minute ago, HolySorcerer said:

Never feel sorry for the Jumpmaster.  It should feel lucky just to get an invite to SE.

YMMV, but I'd like ships to be point costed and designed from a sensible game balance point of view rather than what they were like two years ago in an earlier edition...  It's very difficult to understand why the 2nd Edition JumpMaster is priced the way it is when compared with other similar ships.

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Normally a similar priced ship with more hull than another one but has more agility is a 1-1 trade

Falcon has +2 hull -1 agi
Jm5k has -2hull +1 agi

jm5k dial is clunky, but its not horrible. To the left its superior, which it SHOULD BE for being an asym ship.

But yeah im not really sure why its priced so high compared to the falcon. The only slot advantage the jm5k has is torpedo, which isnt much, falcon has 2 crew jm5k has 1....wat?

You cant really compare the base price of the ships and factor in Punishing One either since thats not a free title, its 8pts and swaps crew for astro which in this edition is a massive difference (not in a good way, crew > astro atm imo) AND it effectively removes its turret...for some reason (i still dont understand that...)

Also heres something comical: run Han with Trickshot. Obstructed? Rolling 4 dice!

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Problem with scum Han is you need to obstruct his fat ***, which is FAR easier said than done

With Rigged Cargo, you have about maybe 1 chance per game to land the 5-die money shot (2 + Han + trickshot + title)

But even then it's easy for the opponent to simply not be obstructed with the falcon's fat *** peeking around the corners of the template

You'd need like Qi'ra so you can just park the dang thing on an obstruction, but then you get crap mods 

And of course neither Lando nor Han get gunner Han because of stress shutting off Landi and time paradoxes, respectively

On a more positive note, gunner Dengar is mean. Why does scum get all the awesome Gunners?

Oh! And Kavil! R4, gunner Han Kavil with dorsal turret, expert handling, and pro torps ?

Edited by ficklegreendice

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6 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

Problem with scum Han is you need to obstruct his fat ***, which is FAR easier said than done

With Rigged Cargo, you have about maybe 1 chance per game to land the 5-die money shot (2 + Han + trickshot + title)

But even then it's easy for the opponent to simply not be obstructed with the falcon's fat *** peeking around the corners of the template

You'd need like Qi'ra so you can just park the dang thing on an obstruction, but then you get crap mods 

All of which is fine if you were comparing Han with Dengar, but even ignoring Han's ability entirely he comes out massively on top of the stock generic JM5k by virtue of initiative and stats alone, and for only a handful of points more. 

There's no getting around the fact that 2 attack bow tie with white rotate is far better than a 2 attack single arc with only red rotates available. 

Something feels very wrong with the Contracted Scout's pricing to me, which is a touch ironic given the same was true of 1e - only now it's wrong on totally the opposite side of the spectrum.

If we're taking Scum Han and Lando as a baseline, and assuming that Punishing One Dengar is about fine then I think the JM5k needs a hefty point cut across the board, with Punishing One taking a corresponding increase. 

30 minutes ago, HolySorcerer said:

Never feel sorry for the Jumpmaster.  It should feel lucky just to get an invite to SE

I can't believe I am. The vitriol I used to spew constantly about this ship....

But it's warranted. The ship has been nerfed to uselessness, and I can't imagine how I'd feel if I were one of the weirdos who liked it. I know how I'd have felt if Wedge had been made that useless, or if Soontir Fel had lost his top Initiative and double repositions. 

I sympathise based purely on what they did to Horton. He finally got his EPT, sure, but at what cost? He's lost his Initiative top spot and his ability is crap now. Also Talents are way less vital now anyway. Where once I would have glued Wired or Expertise to him, he now has to pick between the (relatively) lame ducks of Expert Handling or Elusive (hilariously, two of the worst EPTs in 1e, though obviously they're much improved in 2e). He's even been screwed by the Legends discontinuation, because Norra replaced him as the Y-Wing pilot who entered the DSII. And with the Rogue Squadron comics (and Fel himself) now non-canon, he's lost his status as the guy who beat Baron Soontir Fel.  

Incidentally, that's my contribution to the list of Flops:

Horton Salm

His ability would have made no sense in 2e, for sure. Torps now have target locks for re-rolls, always, and there are no range 3 turrets. But the replacement is so situational it basically confines him to one type of list - namely, him and a bunch of cheap generics. For most lists, there's just no reason to take him over the much improved Dutch, except the fringe case where you need to eke out a measly 4 points from somewhere. Once you've built him up a bit, he's still a third of your list and two other aces aren't enough to reliably trigger his ability. 

I'm hoping to be proven wrong by actually playing him, though. Maybe there's something I'm not seeing just looking at him on paper

 

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20 minutes ago, GuacCousteau said:

 

There's no getting around the fact that 2 attack bow tie with white rotate is far better than a 2 attack single arc with only red rotates available.

People keep saying this, but the Jumpmaster is also the only ship that can rotate and gain a lock/focus.  Sure it's awkward, but the whole **** ship is awkward, so it kind of fits its personality.

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3 minutes ago, HolySorcerer said:

People keep saying this, but the Jumpmaster is also the only ship that can rotate and gain a lock/focus.  Sure it's awkward, but the whole **** ship is awkward, so it kind of fits its personality.

The HWK can rotate and get lock/focus on top of having a regular white rotate.

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4 minutes ago, HolySorcerer said:

People keep saying this, but the Jumpmaster is also the only ship that can rotate and gain a lock/focus.  Sure it's awkward, but the whole **** ship is awkward, so it kind of fits its personality.

Sure, yeah I probably should have mentioned that, it's worth bearing in mind.

It's a really weird dial to want to take regular stress on, though. Now that you're penalised for going right and rewarded for going left, you basically want to start on the right edge of the board and move around it anticlockwise skirting the edge. But of course if you're doing that, you can probably just leave the turret pointing out the side anyway and the need to rotate is lessened, which means less stress and less need for the blues you're already taking anyway. The likely time you'd want to take stress to rotate is when, for whatever reason, you're not doing that which means you're probably using non-blue maneuevers on the other side of the dial, so you can't clear that stress. 

I guess without Punishing One, you might want to swap it between forward and side at the start and then maybe rear and side later. And you could do it because you're already going for mostly blues anyway...

Ugh. The whole thing is weird. Trying to strategise around it makes my head hurt.

Either you're super predictable, and you can always clear the stress from the rotate but you probably don't need to rotate anyway, or you're unpredictable so you do need to rotate, but then you can't clear the stress.

Awkward is definitely the operative word. 

Luckily I still think the ship us ugly as sin and there's enough lingering resentment from 1e that with those two things together, I have very little wish to ever actually fly it myself.  

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5 minutes ago, SabineKey said:

The HWK can rotate and get lock/focus on top of having a regular white rotate.

I keep forgetting that the HWK is a thing now.  Regardless of its uniqueness, it is still an advantage it has over the Falcon and most other turreted ships.  A range one three dice attack with lock/focus will average more damage than a range one four dice attack without mods.

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6 minutes ago, HolySorcerer said:

I keep forgetting that the HWK is a thing now.  Regardless of its uniqueness, it is still an advantage it has over the Falcon and most other turreted ships.  A range one three dice attack with lock/focus will average more damage than a range one four dice attack without mods.

True, but as @GuacCousteau pointed out above, it’s dial will mean limited use of the lock/focus linked to a red rotate. That makes those range one shots you are speaking of harder to set up than you seem to think. Not to mention it is more expensive than taking the Scum Falcon.

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2 minutes ago, SabineKey said:

True, but as @GuacCousteau pointed out above, it’s dial will mean limited use of the lock/focus linked to a red rotate. That makes those range one shots you are speaking of harder to set up than you seem to think. Not to mention it is more expensive than taking the Scum Falcon.

Price they can fix, I just don't agree with the people saying that it is inherently bad.  I think think there are a lot of pricing issues that people on the forums have pointed out that we will probably see tweaked a bit for wave 2.  Nobody is going to be surprised when the jumpmaster gets a bit of a price cut in the next update.  They probably just went very conservative with it because of the 1e baggage attached to that ship.

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Btw, I'm kinda bummed about what they did to Kwings. They seem bloody aweful and useless now, especially next yo punishers (wow THATS something I never thought I'd say)

Really want to just beg ffg for a system slot, because that'd be all it needs to have a reason to exist. Trajectory + bombs + hotshot ?

And since rebs lost the resistance bomber,bthey really need a trajectory simulating ship 

Plus it's easy to add on the app 

Edited by ficklegreendice

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2 minutes ago, HolySorcerer said:

Price they can fix, I just don't agree with the people saying that it is inherently bad.  I think think there are a lot of pricing issues that people on the forums have pointed out that we will probably see tweaked a bit for wave 2.  Nobody is going to be surprised when the jumpmaster gets a bit of a price cut in the next update.  They probably just went very conservative with it because of the 1e baggage attached to that ship.

I agree that a lower price point should get the Jumpmaster in a balanced state, though I can also understand people saying it’s straight bad based on a vacuum look at the chassis. In the end, we’ll have to see with table time.

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1 hour ago, ficklegreendice said:

Punishing 1 is far easier to hit 3 dice with than Lando's Falcon, so eh

but yeah, the Jm5k dial is already plenty to pity

L3-37 is a good crew for the JM5K, but you can't use the title. Once you flip L3-37, you get green banks on both sides, which is decent.  Plus, you still get your torps.  I am going to see if I can make Torp Dengar work, since his ability allows him to attack a 2nd time, and it's not restricted to primary weapon attacks.

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