Jump to content
Lyraeus

Ways to revitalize Armada

Recommended Posts

48 minutes ago, rjl51869 said:

IMO, I think the launch of the SSD, just revitalized the game just by itself.

There are people who will now buy into the game just because of that thing!

There are also many people looking at that price point and blanching hard core. Or we have the waifs who flit in bemoaning how it isn't how they wanted it. 

 

I think having an SSD on the table is going to draw attention. A lot of attention. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, Lyraeus said:

There are also many people looking at that price point and blanching hard core. Or we have the waifs who flit in bemoaning how it isn't how they wanted it. 

 

I think having an SSD on the table is going to draw attention. A lot of attention. 

I cant argue with you concerning the price of that thing, that's for sure.

But to a lot of Armada players and just plain Star Wars fans, they might not care that much.

That thing is going to fly off the shelves IMO.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think what will revitalise the game is more communication and more OP support. 

Yeah so the SSD is announced, scheduled to release in 2019. Thats over 4 months from now. After waiting a year without any comms are we going to wait another 4 months without anything as well? Let us know what's in the design space after the SSD. A teaser. Anything. 

After Gencon and NOVA thats it,  theres no OP events until regionals. Its worse here in Australia, our nationals haven't been announced yet and they normally run around this time. Then you got the shennanigans at worlds. FFG limit the number of Armada ticket sales, worst still a significant number of those ticket holders use it for Xwing. Then it doesn't help that FFG communicates the attendance numbers in that misinformative chart which makes the bulk of players think Armada is dying. So i suggest here a reworking of the OP calendar and a rework on the world's reporting system. 

I also think some regular play promotion casting might a great touch too. Do a weekly game thats live streamed at the FFG centre and casted by people who know the game. Invite top tier players to come. Even something like that monthly will drive interest.

Just my two cents. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Irokenics said:

I think what will revitalise the game is more communication and more OP support. 

Yeah so the SSD is announced, scheduled to release in 2019. Thats over 4 months from now. After waiting a year without any comms are we going to wait another 4 months without anything as well? Let us know what's in the design space after the SSD. A teaser. Anything. 

After Gencon and NOVA thats it,  theres no OP events until regionals. Its worse here in Australia, our nationals haven't been announced yet and they normally run around this time. Then you got the shennanigans at worlds. FFG limit the number of Armada ticket sales, worst still a significant number of those ticket holders use it for Xwing. Then it doesn't help that FFG communicates the attendance numbers in that misinformative chart which makes the bulk of players think Armada is dying. So i suggest here a reworking of the OP calendar and a rework on the world's reporting system. 

I also think some regular play promotion casting might a great touch too. Do a weekly game thats live streamed at the FFG centre and casted by people who know the game. Invite top tier players to come. Even something like that monthly will drive interest.

Just my two cents. 

Ohhh I like that. The issue is how to draw that. They could do a rotation of games as well. Just like 40k World does

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Lyraeus said:

There are also many people looking at that price point and blanching hard core. Or we have the waifs who flit in bemoaning how it isn't how they wanted it. 

 

I think having an SSD on the table is going to draw attention. A lot of attention. 

Think what seeing two on the table will do...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Darth Sanguis said:

They could also consider doing special objectives or game formats. 

Yeah, something to shake up objectives would be great. Objective packs that add new objectives and rotate out old ones. 
I dunno the best way for FFG to deliver this.. they don't seem keen on just card packs. I'd be willing to get something like the Corellian Campaign  even if there was no campaign. Just more variants of ships, squads and objectives. 

I don't really care to see articles from FFG on old ship highlights or tactics or anything like that. The fans will just do that better and they already have. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Lyraeus said:

Didn't we try figuring that out at one point @Norsehound ... Pretty sure we tried to figure out an aturi variant and it was super complex due to the amount of variability.

 

As for sourcing rights, I doubt they would go that far

Me? I dunno, I can't remember a time when I put effort into thinking of how to make an AI system work.

I think it can be done. In a way it's easier than X-Wing because we don't need some random-wild mechanic to determine how a fighter would have guessed the best move. What we'd need to do is determine a system of suggested moves in response to where hostile targets are- and it would matter for ships at higher speeds. I imagine the AI would be Imperial first, and such a campaign would be about plucky Rebel resistance capital ship commanders and end with driving MC80s.

That's all for another thread though. I'd be interested in chipping in to such a project, time permitting.

 

6 hours ago, Piratical Moustache said:

The Force Awakens and especially the Last Jedi killed almost any chance of large scale fleet engagements, what with the New Republic being pushovers under Mon Mothma's leadership.

She probably put Kuat, Fondor, Mon Calamari, Bilbringi, and more worlds into a recession without military contracts.

Yes I am still salty about the Canon reboot, I wanted the Nebula-class Star Destroyer and MC90 on the big screen.

 

Can't fault Mon Mothma for wanting a period of rest after a long period of war and discontent- the Empire's oppression and exploitation was a toll on a lot of people.

I don't think those yards stayed idle- there were plenty of independent systems who, in absence of some big protecting authority, were willing to solicit the yards to have them make star destroyers for them. Certainly the First Order gave them business if the new republic wouldn't.

Also, no reason to think those things won't come back to canon. If the Dreadnought (and Thrawn) are back after a while, we just need to wait.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, Norsehound said:

Me? I dunno, I can't remember a time when I put effort into thinking of how to make an AI system work.

I think it can be done. In a way it's easier than X-Wing because we don't need some random-wild mechanic to determine how a fighter would have guessed the best move. What we'd need to do is determine a system of suggested moves in response to where hostile targets are- and it would matter for ships at higher speeds. I imagine the AI would be Imperial first, and such a campaign would be about plucky Rebel resistance capital ship commanders and end with driving MC80s.

That's all for another thread though. I'd be interested in chipping in to such a project, time permitting.

 

Can't fault Mon Mothma for wanting a period of rest after a long period of war and discontent- the Empire's oppression and exploitation was a toll on a lot of people.

I don't think those yards stayed idle- there were plenty of independent systems who, in absence of some big protecting authority, were willing to solicit the yards to have them make star destroyers for them. Certainly the First Order gave them business if the new republic wouldn't.

Also, no reason to think those things won't come back to canon. If the Dreadnought (and Thrawn) are back after a while, we just need to wait.

We can talk it over. I remember talking it at one point early in the game, I think it was before the ISD's came out. The question is, how does one determine the best move? Hmmm I will PM you and we can talk on it

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

11 hours ago, Admiral Calkins said:

we just need to focus on promoting the game and being positive ambassadors for the hobby.

Last time I ran a Corellian Campaign there were two of us.  This did encourage the shop owner and so he now stocks Armada.  I left it a few months playing the odd game then decided to start a new campaign - this time 6 players!   Simply turning up and playing that campaign every week was enough to push Armada forward.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Curse you @Norsehound I should be sleeping but now I am creating a basic Arquitens stat right up for an Armada Aturi style campaign... Oddly a lot of my worries were unfounded. The way Aturi works is good enough for movement and targeting for the AI. It will be interesting as it won't be the smartest thing but it will be pretty intelligent.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, this is what I got after staring at the TIE FIghter's AI card for the aturi cluster.
 

Quote

 

Activation Priority:
For all AI ships that have not activated, activate one ship in the following priority.

1. Closest ship to an un-activated player ship
2. first ship in activation priority (which is assigned during scenario setup)

Activation Steps:

1. Select Target
a. Nearest enemy in the forward or side arcs.
b. Nearest squadrons at range 1-2
c. Nearest enemy ship

2.Resolve Command
a. If there are 2 or more friendly squadrons in command range, resolve a squadron command.
b. If the ship's health is less than half, resolve an engineering command. Repair hull, then shields.
c. If the target ship is in the rear arc, resolve a navigate command and speed up.
d. If the target ship is in the forward arc, but out of range, resolve a navigate command to increase speed.
e. If a target ship is in range, resolve a concentrate fire command. Add a die color of the shortest range.

3. Activate Squadrons
a. Begin with all unique squadrons.
a1. Attack all squadrons.
a2. Attack target capital ship

4. Attack Target
a. Attack target with the largest battery. Resolve any critical effect (all AI ships have only one critical effect card assigned to them)
b. If the target ship is in the second arc, attack it.
c. If a gunnery team is onboard, attack the next available target with the largest battery.

Accuracy Resolution:
1. Scatter
2. Brace
3. Evade
4. As many Redirects as possible
5. Contain

5. Move
>Depends upon ship, close range ships want to move closer, ranged ships will maintain distance<

 

It'll need some work, but if we can get a robust AI control system for most craft, then we can move on to developing a campaign structure, then build some missions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's basically what I am using @Norsehound. The issue comes in that different ships will have different priorities. A Quasar will have different target priorities based on number and type of squadrons nearby than the targeting priorities an Arquitens Light Cruiser will have. 

So you have to design this for all ship versions (those ISDs... Oh... Boy...) and later can add modifications for upgrades. 

I am hesitant to get rid of stacked command dials as it adds a bit of realism to the game and makes an ISD respond like an ISD while that CR90 gets that swift change. 

Edited by Lyraeus

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Lyraeus said:

I am hesitant to get rid of stacked command dials as it adds a bit of realism to the game and makes an ISD respond like an ISD while that CR90 gets that swift change. 

The gameplay function of the command stack is to force players to think several moves in advance and reward their planning. I think it's safe to assume Imperial commanders are proficient enough to have those commands banked in advance. That's part of the challenge. As well, maneuver is key to X-Wing gameplay but HotAC skips by this by dictating these commands in response to the position of enemy ships' current positions. So, it makes sense to me to design a system that side-steps a major component of the game.

After all the point of this scenario is to create a challenge the players have to overcome. A typical enemy that's somehow better, in place of a crafty human opponent, is a better challenge. Especially if the point early game is Rebel players in lighter ships trying to avoid or tag-team bigger ships (typically VSDs/GSDs... ISDs would be major opponents the rebel players attack either with large ships of their own or in groups).

The only way around this I think is to create a system where these commands are placed under the stack in relation to how far an opponent is (or a ship's function, or determined on the ship's AI card)- but that takes any intuition out of an AI player's responses.

Of course, we could also dictate that ships have a certain command banked for their entire turn until they hit 1/2 hull, then switch to engineering. Or something.

Shouldn't we move this to it's own development thread? That is, if we ARE moving forward as a community on this project.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, Norsehound said:

The gameplay function of the command stack is to force players to think several moves in advance and reward their planning. I think it's safe to assume Imperial commanders are proficient enough to have those commands banked in advance. That's part of the challenge. As well, maneuver is key to X-Wing gameplay but HotAC skips by this by dictating these commands in response to the position of enemy ships' current positions. So, it makes sense to me to design a system that side-steps a major component of the game.

After all the point of this scenario is to create a challenge the players have to overcome. A typical enemy that's somehow better, in place of a crafty human opponent, is a better challenge. Especially if the point early game is Rebel players in lighter ships trying to avoid or tag-team bigger ships (typically VSDs/GSDs... ISDs would be major opponents the rebel players attack either with large ships of their own or in groups).

The only way around this I think is to create a system where these commands are placed under the stack in relation to how far an opponent is (or a ship's function, or determined on the ship's AI card)- but that takes any intuition out of an AI player's responses.

Of course, we could also dictate that ships have a certain command banked for their entire turn until they hit 1/2 hull, then switch to engineering. Or something.

Shouldn't we move this to it's own development thread? That is, if we ARE moving forward as a community on this project.

I’d get involved.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd point out that when FFG have published articles on Armada on the main page in the past, even when they have been written by really well respected people from the community we have been sometimes been a bit dismissive because they are normally aimed at starting out players...

 

Anyway, my thoughts....

The easiest things

- Tournament scoring system - I have absolutely no issues with the current system, but a very common complaint I hear from gamers that started but then pulled out is that someone can win all three games of a tournament and still not come first to someone that lost a game but had better tourney points. Again - I have no issues with the current system but this is a complaint I hear time and again so maybe its worth considering. Of course there is some possibility that all these guys are just Xwing blowhards that wouldn't come back anyway because the game is too complicated for them....

- Comms from FFG. My feeling of the current 'sparse' release schedule is that between Xwing, legion and everything else FFG has maxed out development and production capacity and they can only really 'fit' one wave in a year. If this is the case, they should just make this known - that the game is in a very good and balanced state with lots of options and their plan is to keep supporting it competitively and with waves, but we should expect a quiet period between a wave release and the next product announcement

 

Slightly harder

- More streaming, more big tournament coverage and hype

- Proper community manager support - it doesn't have to be every week but semi regular shout outs/articles etc

 

Requiring proper resourcing

- A cool rebel release alongside SSD. Something like Assault frigate Mark 1 or dreadnought

- Epic scale expansions - especially campaign material

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I’m of the opinion the Aturi Campaign came about in X-wing because the majority of that scene was “kill kill kill” and left a portion of the players who enjoyed things like cinematic play out in the dark.

Armada doesn’t have that. Every game plays like a scene in a movie and it’s mainly due to objectives over just the basic 1 vs 1 setup of X-wing.

I also don’t see how a play at home campaign is going to revitalize the scene. Doesn’t playing this game in public help bring in players? Just one person off twirling dials in the corner of a gaming shop isn’t going to entice anybody. 

If you want to revitalize it, do it yourself. Talk to your local shop owner and organize an introductory night. PLAN IT WELL. Use social media, word of mouth, etc. Come up with prizes that are reasonable (somebody might be more inclined to play again if they just won a shiny new CR-90 or a Raider). Then make plans to run something fun that continues the introduction, like the Corellian Campaign. By the time you’re done with that the SSD should be out and will attract even more attention.

Point being you shouldn’t rely on just FFG to do all the work. I used to play Heroclix. That was a dead game that kept going because of a community wanting it to. Armada is far from that, but it needs people more active “out there” than in these forums brainstorming Solitaire for people wanting poker.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Darth Lupine said:

Lol....think of a CC campaign, and each imperial player has one, then you get to the final battle....1500 points with three SSD. ?

Only 3? By then you should have way more players

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...