2E: Tie Aces

[Tbetts94 2,401]

Howlrunner 

Wampa

Inferno Squad: Iden, Gideon, Del, Seyn

 

Its an even 200 Points, no upgrades. Thoughts?

Edited September 8, 2018 by Tbetts94

[Greebwahn 925]

Who needs upgrades??

[SirCormac 530]

Hmm, you at least probably want Marksmanship on Seyn to proc the ability, so maybe you can lower one of the named pilots for some space for talents?

I have a similar list where, instead of Del and Howlrunner, I have talents on everybody, Major Vermeil (who is also a 4, which is nice) Admiral Sloane, and theres still a few points left. Just a different take on the same idea.

Edited August 5, 2018 by SirCormac

[Arkanta974 842]

Howlrunner 

2x Alpha Squadron Pilot

4x Academy Pilot

No upgrades too ! 200 pts !

 

[Magnus Grendel 11,679]

On ‎8‎/‎5‎/‎2018 at 4:02 AM, SirCormac said:

Hmm, you at least probably want Marksmanship on Seyn to proc the ability, so maybe you can lower one of the named pilots for some space for talents?

Probably Wampa. It seems a shame to mess with the visuals of having inferno squad, and Howlrunner is great with a TIE swarm.

Night Beast is a characterful wingman for Howlrunner (He's Obsidian Two, She's Obsidian Leader). That saves 4 points (marksmanship on Seyn plus Elusive on Howlrunner?) and gives you a higher initiative squad.

 

The version of the Swarm I'm considering:

• Academy Pilot x 4
• Black Squadron Ace (Ruthlessness) x 4

Because collateral damage is acceptable.

[theBitterFig 11,598]

With the massive number of alt-art Jukes that are getting around, here's something I was considering:

Howlrunner (Juke)

Valen Rudor (Juke)

4x Black Squadron Ace (Juke)

It's probably not better than another TIE Swarm, but it strikes me as somewhat humorous.

[Tbetts94 2,401]

On 8/4/2018 at 8:02 PM, SirCormac said:

Hmm, you at least probably want Marksmanship on Seyn to proc the ability, so maybe you can lower one of the named pilots for some space for talents?

I have a similar list where, instead of Del and Howlrunner, I have talents on everybody, Major Vermeil (who is also a 4, which is nice) Admiral Sloane, and theres still a few points left. Just a different take on the same idea.

In everyone one of my test games so far Seyn having 2 dice and a reroll the crit has happened quite a lot. Plus really like having all four of Inferno Squad. Wampa is too good to drop and of course Howl is Howl.

[Tbetts94 2,401]

10 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

The version of the Swarm I'm considering:

• Academy Pilot x 4
• Black Squadron Ace (Ruthlessness) x 4

 Because collateral damage is acceptable.

I really like that actually. I think Ruthless is an upgrade people don’t realize how good it is. It’s a Guidance Chips to suffer one damage. When you got 8 ships and spread it around is great, plus it’s a May and you don’t have to do it.

[Tbetts94 2,401]

So far in my test games my opponents have conceded by 2nd round of combat.  One played on though, but was a lost cause. List is pretty good. 

[Magnus Grendel 11,679]

14 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

With the massive number of alt-art Jukes that are getting around, here's something I was considering:

Howlrunner (Juke)

Valen Rudor (Juke)

4x Black Squadron Ace (Juke)

It's probably not better than another TIE Swarm, but it strikes me as somewhat humorous.

Juke is definitely a natural pairing for Valen. Pretty much the only thing he can do with his free action if he's already focused is evade, and juke makes it worthwhile if someone else nearby is the target, making him into yet another "shoot me first" TIE fighter.

[Shockley 25]

2.0 TIE Swarm

(40) "Howlrunner"
(3) Elusive
(7) Hull Upgrade
Points 50

(40) Iden Versio
(4) Juke
Points 44

(23) Academy Pilot
Points 23

(30) "Wampa"
Points 30

(23) Academy Pilot
Points 23

(30) Del Meeko
Points 30

Total points: 200

[knute 81]

I was playing around with a TIE Ace Swarm list on YASB and I independently developed the same list as the OP above. If you're going to go for a named TIE swarm, I think that's probably the best combination. If you want to fit marksman on Seyn, you probably take Valen instead of Wampa, which might not be so bad since Wampa will likely be target to at least one throw away attack to take down his energy. 

I would probably run the OP list over the 8 TIE swarm list just because I easily get analysis paralysis, but both lists look really good. 

Which brings up the question: what would the list lose to? I think it probably eats 2-ship lists, but I wonder about something like a Dash+1 list might be an issue. Something along these lines:

Dash Rendar — YT-2400	100
Trick Shot	1
Cluster Missiles	5
Bistan	14
Lando Calrissian	5
Outrider	14
Ship Total: 139
Kyle Katarn — HWK-290	38
Trick Shot	1
Perceptive Copilot	10
Moldy Crow	12
Ship Total: 61

 

[Tbetts94 2,401]

Still haven’t lost a game, played against Soontir and Double Defenders. Was not a good start having to use Iden’s ability first shot from a natty triple crit from soontir, but ended up pulling it out.

[NABLA_OPERATOR 84]

Have you yet played against heavy anti-swarm lists? Like 2-3 Trajectory-Punisher, etc.?

Edited September 3, 2018 by NABLA_OPERATOR

[Rat of Vengence 1,030]

On 9/3/2018 at 7:24 PM, NABLA_OPERATOR said:

Have you yet played against heavy anti-swarm lists? Like 2-3 Trajectory-Punisher, etc.?

Can you give me an idea of how you'd play against such a list?

 

[Tbetts94 2,401]

On 9/3/2018 at 2:24 AM, NABLA_OPERATOR said:

Have you yet played against heavy anti-swarm lists? Like 2-3 Trajectory-Punisher, etc.?

Not yet, will need some practice against it though. May just have to dodge the match up haha.

 

Think you'd either just try to take 1 bomb and try to kill a punisher in return. Other thing that comes to mind trying is to develop a fortress that maximize its position, so if they come to T-Sim Tie Fighters could jump range and make it worth it.

[Tbetts94 2,401]

Calling this list TIE Aces now!

[Shockley 25]

On 8/29/2018 at 9:55 PM, Shockley said:

2.0 TIE Swarm

(40) "Howlrunner"
(3) Elusive
(7) Hull Upgrade
Points 50

(40) Iden Versio
(4) Juke
Points 44

(23) Academy Pilot
Points 23

(30) "Wampa"
Points 30

(23) Academy Pilot
Points 23

(30) Del Meeko
Points 30

Total points: 200

How does TIE Aces compare to the list above? I will fly one of them in a tournament this weekend. TIE Aces feels more offensive while mine is heavy on defense and keeping Howlrunner in the fight longer. How does the Ace squad fare once Howl gets knocked out?

[Phydaux42 6]

I'll be buying into the game for the first time on the 13th when 2.0 drops at my FLAGS.

I plan on walking out of the store with 6 TIE Fighters.  Tell me, are 6 TIE Fighters not enough?

[Shockley 25]

1 hour ago, Phydaux42 said:

I'll be buying into the game for the first time on the 13th when 2.0 drops at my FLAGS.

I plan on walking out of the store with 6 TIE Fighters.  Tell me, are 6 TIE Fighters not enough?

6 should be fine. 7 is wonky to fly in formation IMO and I don't think 8 is a good choice in 2.0.

[Phydaux42 6]

Really?  'Cause I'm kind of intrigued by the idea of having so many ships just EVERYWHERE.   Seems like it would be hard to fly 8 ships well, though - Yeah it would probably be easy to drop in behind the other player's ships, but staying out of the other player's gun sights and out of your own way is probably a lot harder than it sounds.

[Tbetts94 2,401]

8 hours ago, Shockley said:

How does TIE Aces compare to the list above? I will fly one of them in a tournament this weekend. TIE Aces feels more offensive while mine is heavy on defense and keeping Howlrunner in the fight longer. How does the Ace squad fare once Howl gets knocked out?

The 4 PS4 and extra Attack Die from Gideon is huge. Idk, my games never get that far  

[Shockley 25]

Well then I think I may just try out your TIE Aces. It's a big deal that so many ships are I4 and all of them get a chance to fire before being removed.

[GuacCousteau 2,012]

10 hours ago, Phydaux42 said:

Really?  'Cause I'm kind of intrigued by the idea of having so many ships just EVERYWHERE. 

Well, for one thing that's not really how you'd fly 8 TIE Fighters.

The 8 TIE Fighter thing was very big for a while in first edition, as it represented pretty much the best efficiency you could get out of a list. But a big part of the reason it was so efficient was because it was basically flown in 2 or three close blocks. You'd almost treat one square of 4 TIE Fighters as its own big ship. They'd move together for as long as they possibly could and all shoot the same target, even to the point where it was usually a much better choice to land one of the four on a rock, if you had to, rather than break off to avoid it and break the formation. 

10 hours ago, Phydaux42 said:

but staying out of the other player's gun sights

Again, this isn't really a priority. The list kind of relies on each of your opponent's ships only being able to shoot once. You can happily park 4 TIE Fighters in front of one X-Wing knowing that, even if the X-Wing rolls really well the most it can do is take just one of the four off the board. And while each TIE Fighter's return attack might be weak, you break down their HP through sheer numbers.

 

10 hours ago, Phydaux42 said:

and out of your own way is probably a lot harder than it sounds.

This part definitely applies, although there are a few rules that make it relatively easy to fly formations once you learn them. For example, if you know roughly that you want the block to do a bank turn, there are some rules you can apply that will tell you exactly which maneuever each ship needs to do to keep that shape and bank as a whole. 

The difficult part is always figuring out that initial maneuever, though, and weighing likely outcomes against each other. "I want this block to be facing here at this point, but if I do that I can already see that one of the TIEs will land on a rock. But if I go a slightly different direction, the first TIE might bump an enemy ship which would make the one behind him bump too" etc. 

Managing eight TIEs is very time consuming and pretty exhausting. And things get really tough should the plan start to unravel, and you end up with TIEs all over the board. 

But as this thread details, the shake up to TIE Fighter pilot abilities and the game mechanics in general seems to be favouring six TIE Fighters over eight this time around. The abilities they have to make each other better are worth more than sheer numbers in the 2e environment. 

Six TIE aces is still probably going to be difficult to fly for anyone without experience running smaller formations like a three X-Wing list featuring Biggs. The returns on those pilot abilities only kick in for a player who knows what he's doing. 

[Phydaux42 6]

Six TIEs flying in pairs?