Jump to content
Zagnoroth

Gencon North America championship

Recommended Posts

 Totally agree man. In fact I've promised myself after this weekend that I will not respond to "IA is dead" topics or comparing it to Legion. Both games are well liked and are super fun but are totally different games.  They can easily both co-exist. Also after spending some time with the FFG designers (including X-wing) I did not get the feeling like IA was dead.  Like fight club, they just can't talk about it…much. So I really don't think people need to worry. If anything we need to be more positive to show and tell FFG how awesome this game is and how they should keep supporting it. It was made clear to me that Disney  is happy with the sales of the game but are just very particular about it's narrative. Unfortunately this could translate into longer delays between releases when comparing to the other games. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, ONEnONLY1 said:

I beat him in the finals, and looking at the list he could have easily made the mistake of running an elite Jawa instead of a regular Jawa and using his temp alliance for both Gideon and C-3PO which would put him at 40pts. Which in that case it's just a matter of grabbing the wrong card which yes if you catch it and report it then he can be DQ'd but everyone played him and overlooked it so you accept the outcome and it's no where near as important as other forms of cheating or list errors. I'm sorry for everyone that it affected but all we can do as a group is double check our components and our opponents and hope FFG checks both lists next time for things like that

Congrats on the win! Would you be willing to share your command deck? I’ve been running a lot of that group over the last 6 months and am curious what you do differently. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Fightwookies said:

Congrats on the win! Would you be willing to share your command deck? I’ve been running a lot of that group over the last 6 months and am curious what you do differently. 

What's your list if you don't mind me asking? I love talking strategy and game play

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, NeverBetTheFett said:

Agreed. No way this guy was being malicious. He made a dumb mistake. Fix the problem as best you can, and move on. Make changes to avoid it in the future. Make those happy who feel slighted. This slip up does not exclusively reflect this game. 

It reflects on FFG poorly as this type of poor stewardship of events is not exclusive to IA.

It isn't as if IA is the only game they run OP poorly for, so there is nothing to read into for IA specifically.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's not a rules issue but a procedure (and then following the procedure) issue.

Electronic submission of lists through a (sanctioned) squad builder would be one solution. The FFG OP could have one tablet for players to use if they haven't submitted their list beforehand.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I went 4-2 in the tournament, and one of my losses was to the person with 41 points. I dont think he did it on purpose, but I am a little bit peeved that they make us fill out those list forms and then don't even look at them. I figured that his list wouldve been caught by the fourth round (when we fought) , so i didnt even check his list. As a player, i feel like i shouldnt need to worry about the lists that allegedly shouldve been checked. Fantasy flight should've resolved the issue before the tournament started. Now at least I know to check my opponents. Overall, he was very courteous and i enjoyed our game very much, very nice guy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, a1bert said:

It's not a rules issue but a procedure (and then following the procedure) issue.

Electronic submission of lists through a (sanctioned) squad builder would be one solution. The FFG OP could have one tablet for players to use if they haven't submitted their list beforehand.

 

Exactly the reason why I wrote code for Startactics IA to convert an Army into a TTAdmiral link that can be eventually be displayed as a QR code. This way camera of the tablet you mentioned can immediately read the qr code and import the army into Startactics IA. I wanted to use it in private tournaments for list sharing. Unfortunately the Startactics developer hasn't taken my code into consideration. That would have worked well against malformed lists.

Anyway, I believe lack of organisation is even worse than lack of tools. I believe the player wasn't cheating on purpose. However I would punish this conduct regardless. When I say so, I include both players and whoever was in charge of doing the math.

You have people there for counting cards that isn't counting the cards. You pay people at worlds for commenting the game and they barely had a look at the rulebook. Ok the game isn't dead, but the attempt to kill it is pretty clear.

 

Edited by Golan Trevize

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, a1bert said:

Electronic submission of lists through a (sanctioned) squad builder would be one solution.

They appear to be doing this for X-Wing 2.0 through their squad builder app.  There is 0% chance of this happening with software that they don't own or have some control over though, which would be the case with IA.

Edited by miguelj

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One resolution as a result of this that is probably low effort is to institute a general practice that at the first round of a tournament for the TO and judges to tell players to verify your opponents deployment cards to make sure their list is legal.  Obviously you cannot do this with CC decks (aside from verifying they have indeed 15 cards in it), but it probably would have caught this instance and nipped it in the bud.  Generally, I've only seen this done in X-Wing at worlds but it's probably a good practice to do with any tournament at any level.

On top of that, past the 1st round there wouldn't be much need to speculate on the intentions of a player caught past that point.  If your list was verified in the 1st round, chance are high you are cheating on purpose if you are found in the middle of the tourney with an illegal list.

Edited by miguelj

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, miguelj said:

One resolution as a result of this that is probably low effort is to institute a general practice that at the first round of a tournament for the TO and judges to tell players to verify your opponents deployment cards to make sure their list is legal.  Obviously you cannot do this with CC decks (aside from verifying they have indeed 15 cards in it), but it probably would have caught this instance and nipped it in the bud.  Generally, I've only seen this done in X-Wing at worlds but it's probably a good practice to do with any tournament at any level.

On top of that, past the 1st round there wouldn't be much need to speculate on the intentions of a player caught past that point.  If your list was verified in the 1st round, chance are high you are cheating on purpose if you are found in the middle of the tourney with an illegal list.

That's probably the simplest way, especially for high-level tournaments like this.  Even if there was a fancy electronic system where you pre-registered your list, it wouldn't have stopped a case like this where someone accidentally grabs the wrong jawa card on their way out the door.  A quick check before round 1 would have probably allowed enough time for the player to borrow the right card from someone before the games began.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, NeverBetTheFett said:

From what I was told, the player is trying to make amends and is arranging to send his prizes to people harmed. FFG also compensated some other players involved.  

Hey, I was just wondering where you heard that because I want to know if I get anything for losing to him in swiss. Since my only other loss was Logan who went into top four, my game with the 41 point list was pretty important in determining my standings. Personally, I dont think the 41 point player should have to relinquish any prizes. FFG should've caught it, so it should be them compensating people.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Lance Kennedy said:

Hey, I was just wondering where you heard that because I want to know if I get anything for losing to him in swiss. Since my only other loss was Logan who went into top four, my game with the 41 point list was pretty important in determining my standings. Personally, I dont think the 41 point player should have to relinquish any prizes. FFG should've caught it, so it should be them compensating people.

the person who ended up in 9th (and lost to the 41 pt list) got in contact with the 41 pt list owner, other than that I do not know

Edited by Kalandros

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The runner-up player reported on Slack that he is shipping his top 8 playmat to the guy that got 9th place. 

As has already been said, this was an honest mistake that ended up going way further than it should have. The takeaway for players here is to make sure you take that 30 seconds to pull out your phone calculator and double check your opponent's list adding up to 40 (and maybe do the same with your own list with the physical cards on the table instead of just in a digital list builder).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
42 minutes ago, Tvboy said:

The runner-up player reported on Slack that he is shipping his top 8 playmat to the guy that got 9th place. 

I feel bad for Collin, but I'm happy that Carl is getting compensation. I just feel like that compensation should come from ffg not Collin. But at least we all learned to check our lists in the future.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Lance Kennedy said:

I feel bad for Collin, but I'm happy that Carl is getting compensation. I just feel like that compensation should come from ffg not Collin. But at least we all learned to check our lists in the future.

Bit hard to feel bad for the guy that played the whole event up a point through no fault but his own. 

Edited by ScottieATF

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, Lance Kennedy said:

I feel bad for Collin, but I'm happy that Carl is getting compensation. I just feel like that compensation should come from ffg not Collin. But at least we all learned to check our lists in the future.

Look, I understand the TOs had a job to do and they didn't do it, but I'm a little uncomfortable with the level of dismissiveness towards player responsibility on display here.

First and foremost, it is on the individual player to make sure the list they submit is legal. TO neglect is not an acceptable excuse to make if you are found to have been playing with an illegal list.

Collin seems to recognize this, and as such is trying to make personal amends.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, miguelj said:

Look, I understand the TOs had a job to do and they didn't do it, but I'm a little uncomfortable with the level of dismissiveness towards player responsibility on display here.

First and foremost, it is on the individual player to make sure the list they submit is legal. TO neglect is not an acceptable excuse to make if you are found to have been playing with an illegal list.

Collin seems to recognize this, and as such is trying to make personal amends.

Yeah you're definitely right, i just know he's a nice guy and feel bad that he lost the honor of his victory of being 2nd because of the mistake he made.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Lance Kennedy said:

Yeah you're definitely right, i just know he's a nice guy and feel bad that he lost the honor of his victory of being 2nd because of the mistake he made.

I think it was an honest mistake. I met him at the tournament and he was a super nice guy. I can totally believe that he just made a last minute change to his list and wrote down the wrong type of Jawa. I also don't think people should be so mad at FFG. Large events are always hard to keep going on time, and having them go through lists and compare to what's on the table is not feasible. I don't know of any game that does that.

You should always check your opponents list anyway. You expect people to play with legal lists, but we're human and mistakes happen. THIS WAS NOT CHEATING.

Edited by NeverBetTheFett

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...