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Zagnoroth

Gencon North America championship

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4 hours ago, Zagnoroth said:

We’re you at gencon? Also I’m only going to post top 8 (that was the cut off). Which sucks because I got top 16 with HK’s.

Yep! I made it out undefeated luckily enough, so I’m on to day two. Hoping my luck holds ?

-ryanjamal 

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1 hour ago, Kalandros said:

Well.. disappointed to see photos like this from Gencon - a 41 pt list on the top tables (finals of the top 8 cut I think ?)

Yeah, I heard this list was in the final game. WTF?

Edited by nickv2002

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Looks like they checked command cards of all top 8 lists - but not the lists themselves. 
My friend ended up 9th place after losing the last swiss round to that 41 pt list. 
Honest mistake or not on the faulty player's part doesn't matter - it affected all those who attended that tournament... really sucks.

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@Kalandros

I'm always disappointed when I read stuff like this.  I understand that most player-run events don't have the time to really sit there and fact check everyones' list to go and ensure they're legal that way before starting the first round pairings.  Given that this isn't some local 10 man event that usually polices itself, you'd expect FFG to work that little bit extra to maintain their tournament integrity.

This isn't a call to arms or anything, I'm just adding my sympathies to the players that lost out to that.  That extra point is the difference between Black Market letting someone get card advantage or Devious for optimal setups.

Hopefully they caught this before it went any further and forced the player to pare down the list to 40pts or less for the remainder, and toss some extra swag to  that player's opponents.  You can't really do a do over for something like that when it gets that far.  If it went to the final table, that would be a shame.

Like Kalandros I'm not saying it was a deliberate attempt at deceit, but it's proof of why its important for the players to carefully audit their work, and for the organizers to fact check the points costs and totals before starting.

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I beat him in the finals, and looking at the list he could have easily made the mistake of running an elite Jawa instead of a regular Jawa and using his temp alliance for both Gideon and C-3PO which would put him at 40pts. Which in that case it's just a matter of grabbing the wrong card which yes if you catch it and report it then he can be DQ'd but everyone played him and overlooked it so you accept the outcome and it's no where near as important as other forms of cheating or list errors. I'm sorry for everyone that it affected but all we can do as a group is double check our components and our opponents and hope FFG checks both lists next time for things like that

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Just now, ONEnONLY1 said:

I beat him in the finals, and looking at the list he could have easily made the mistake of running an elite Jawa instead of a regular Jawa and using his temp alliance for both Gideon and C-3PO which would put him at 40pts. Which in that case it's just a matter of grabbing the wrong card which yes if you catch it and report it then he can be DQ'd but everyone played him and overlooked it so you accept the outcome and it's no where near as important as other forms of cheating or list errors. I'm sorry for everyone that it affected but all we can do as a group is double check our components and our opponents and hope FFG checks both lists next time for things like that

Grats on winning the big prize! See you next Worlds ;) 
Playing Han Drok myself but no Jyn in the list~

Anyway yea,.. what happened happened so no more need to talk about it~

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@ONEnONLY1

Indeed, we could speculate all day on how the addition error came about, if that's what it boiled down to at the end.

But since the event is over and the need for secrecy is behind you all, fill us in on what you brought and how it went ?

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13 hours ago, ONEnONLY1 said:

I beat him in the finals, and looking at the list he could have easily made the mistake of running an elite Jawa instead of a regular Jawa and using his temp alliance for both Gideon and C-3PO which would put him at 40pts. Which in that case it's just a matter of grabbing the wrong card which yes if you catch it and report it then he can be DQ'd but everyone played him and overlooked it so you accept the outcome and it's no where near as important as other forms of cheating or list errors. I'm sorry for everyone that it affected but all we can do as a group is double check our components and our opponents and hope FFG checks both lists next time for things like that

I could not disagree with this post more. Intentional or not does not come into the equation of how to handle the illegal list. Not legal list = your wins do not count = you do not walk away with second place. Regardless of when it is found out. Imagine sports letting people keep titles and winnings after being found out to be using illegal modifications...

As to people should accept the outcome: why? It is not their job to make sure lists are legal. I have better fish to fry to make sure I stay focussed after a day long of gaming.

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12 minutes ago, Isnigu said:

I could not disagree with this post more. Intentional or not does not come into the equation of how to handle the illegal list. Not legal list = your wins do not count = you do not walk away with second place. Regardless of when it is found out. Imagine sports letting people keep titles and winnings after being found out to be using illegal modifications...

As to people should accept the outcome: why? It is not their job to make sure lists are legal. I have better fish to fry to make sure I stay focussed after a day long of gaming.

At no point did I state he deserves second place. All I was trying to do was point out where in the list the mistake could have been made and then speak on as a whole the tournament's organizers should have checked lists at some point and yet again the 6 players in swiss and the 3 in top 8 cut all played him and didn't notice any errors. I could care less if you agree with it or not but end of the day the list was illegal, it was caught too late (sorry to all that missed prizes due to it), instead of ranting and posting about the cheating over and over why not post to FFG with solutions to fix said problem. Help grow the game to become better instead of calling foul over and over. Yes someone cheated, yes the game was affected because who is to say what would transpire if he was DQ'd after round 1 and every round after was altered. But several people played him, several people stood by or stopped by to watch the games he was in and before the final match started someone stood over his list and you a pic and no one noticed, no one called foul, no one did the math. So it's over, it's crappy and sucks for a lot of people but you can't fix it now outside of calling him and having him mail his prizes back

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`Ranting and posting over and over? It's only being discussed in this topic, which is specifically about the tournament.

Solutions to the problem are easy, TO checks the lists. No need for discussion there either. The argument that "several people stood and watched" is irrelevant. Millions watch racing, you expect those to see that an engine has illegal mods? No, you expect the people that checked it beforehand (which they apparantly did with the command decks aswell) to have done a proper job.

Why keep talking about it? Since it's not the first time a high level FFG tournament had someone cheating, without any consequences. X-wing had the same happen, and the guy got off with a warning (note, this was intentional dial altering, which goes quite a bit further than the list error here.) If people keep letting stuff like that slide "to better the game" you in fact achieve the exact opposite: people perceive the tournaments done by FFG to be moderated poorly, so it pays to take a chance on cheating.

And yeah, have him mail the prizes back. Why not? Send him an envelop with a stamp on it for all I care. Incase you did not notice, that stuff goes for a lot of money on ebay.

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As I said in the other post, this is exactly what is killing the game: streaming video presenters that don't have a clue how to play, people checking the lists that have no clue how to count to 41, should I continue the list of people that can't do what they are meant to do?

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From someone who was there, I think it was an honest mistake. We all missed it. Should it result in a DQ? Yes. From what I was told, the player is trying to make amends and is arranging to send his prizes to people harmed. FFG also compensated some other players involved.  Will it get sorted out to everyone's liking? I'm not sure that's 100% possible, but at least the effort is being made to rectify the problem. 

 All I know is that I really felt like the tournament was very well-run and everyone seemed to have a great time. I especially enjoyed playing in the four players skirmish where Todd the designer hung out with us and was openly discussing the game design.

Everybody knows I'm a cheerleader for this game and that won't change. Tournaments like these at busy venues can't possibly always go perfectly.  This game is amazing and it seems like the only people that know this are the ones that play it. So I just hope that we always stay positive so that new players are encouraged.

Edited by NeverBetTheFett

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3 hours ago, Isnigu said:

`Ranting and posting over and over? It's only being discussed in this topic, which is specifically about the tournament.

Solutions to the problem are easy, TO checks the lists. No need for discussion there either. The argument that "several people stood and watched" is irrelevant. Millions watch racing, you expect those to see that an engine has illegal mods? No, you expect the people that checked it beforehand (which they apparantly did with the command decks aswell) to have done a proper job.

Why keep talking about it? Since it's not the first time a high level FFG tournament had someone cheating, without any consequences. X-wing had the same happen, and the guy got off with a warning (note, this was intentional dial altering, which goes quite a bit further than the list error here.) If people keep letting stuff like that slide "to better the game" you in fact achieve the exact opposite: people perceive the tournaments done by FFG to be moderated poorly, so it pays to take a chance on cheating.

And yeah, have him mail the prizes back. Why not? Send him an envelop with a stamp on it for all I care. Incase you did not notice, that stuff goes for a lot of money on ebay.

I fully support both angles/sides to the argument. I understand that simple mistakes happen and if it's not caught in time then the only thing we can really do is use it as a tool for improvement in the future but I also believe that something should be done currently whether it be a warning, prizes taken back or a combo of things. But the difference between millions of people watching a race on TV is you can't see the illegal engine that's under the hood, this event had people literally within feet of his list and no one noticed or pointed it out. From start to finish there were at minimum 12 chances for his list to be found illegal and it never was. Was it a huge fraud like the dial spinning in x wing that was caught on camera no but it's cheating nontheless so all we can do is move forward and look got better solutions and see if FFG is going to issue any statement or revision to tournament play and if the guy gets punished

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4 hours ago, Isnigu said:

`Ranting and posting over and over? It's only being discussed in this topic, which is specifically about the tournament.

Solutions to the problem are easy, TO checks the lists. No need for discussion there either. The argument that "several people stood and watched" is irrelevant. Millions watch racing, you expect those to see that an engine has illegal mods? No, you expect the people that checked it beforehand (which they apparantly did with the command decks aswell) to have done a proper job.

Why keep talking about it? Since it's not the first time a high level FFG tournament had someone cheating, without any consequences. X-wing had the same happen, and the guy got off with a warning (note, this was intentional dial altering, which goes quite a bit further than the list error here.) If people keep letting stuff like that slide "to better the game" you in fact achieve the exact opposite: people perceive the tournaments done by FFG to be moderated poorly, so it pays to take a chance on cheating.

And yeah, have him mail the prizes back. Why not? Send him an envelop with a stamp on it for all I care. Incase you did not notice, that stuff goes for a lot of money on ebay.

Agreed. No way this guy was being malicious. He made a dumb mistake. Fix the problem as best you can, and move on. Make changes to avoid it in the future. Make those happy who feel slighted. This slip up does not exclusively reflect this game. 

Edited by NeverBetTheFett

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5 minutes ago, NeverBetTheFett said:

From someone who was there, I think it was an honest mistake. We all missed it. Should it result in a DQ? Yes. From what I was told, the player is trying to make amends and is arranging to send his prizes to people harmed. FFG also compensated some other players involved.  Will it get sorted out to everyone's liking? I'm not sure that's 100% possible, but at least the effort is being made to rectify the problem. 

 

 

You can never resolve it to everyone's liking. But as long as effort is seen to be made, and not just hoping that ignoring the problem will make it go away. It's the same with the news department: we'd rather have a "we are working on something, could be a while but it's not forgotten" than complete silence for ages, making people post the "is IA dead" topics that help no-one.

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