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Will wait and see the general vibe the game generates in the community and if it appeals to my tastes, a starter. Then if it is my kind of game I will add 8-10 decks to play with my wife and friends. Given that there are other games out there that are also good, this will keep me occupied for a long time.

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7 hours ago, Palpster said:

Don't hold your breath...

I'm not going to need to hold my breath. Corporations can't dictate how someone plays card games.

If FFG doesn't deliver a deckbuilding framework, the players will.

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Just now, schild said:

I'm not going to need to hold my breath. Corporations can't dictate how someone plays card games.

If FFG doesn't deliver a deckbuilding framework, the players will.

Oh yeah, for sure there will be fan made rulesets. I highly doubt we'll see an official one from FFG though, because that would blow up their entire new "Unique Game" property.

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Pretty sure it's going to be blown up with the first expansion. New decks will either be all new cards (great!) and a legacy deckbuilding format will exist that will let you make decks with all sets or expansions will be old cards with some new cards (dumb, stupid) and you're just buying the same stuff over and over.

Theoretically, it's simply in their best interest to have deckbuilding be ALL the cards and standard to be their latest full sets.

 

Edit: the more I think about this the more I want answers before release

Edited by schild

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3 minutes ago, schild said:

I'm not going to need to hold my breath. Corporations can't dictate how someone plays card games.

If FFG doesn't deliver a deckbuilding framework, the players will.

The game designer writes the rules, but the players can always choose to have their own variants if they choose to. Keep in mind that this game was not intended to be played in this way and your deck-building may not improve the game as you would think because it is going against the ideas of the designer when he created it. A lot of the cards and game mechanics behind this game were probably put into place because the decks are all unique and are balanced by the system that procedurally generates these decks. It is up to the players to decide how they will use the decks they purchase, but i would at least recommend trying the game several times with all the rules before making any changes, that way you'll know whether you liked the game before you messed with it. Some of the cards in these decks can be very strong at opportune moments and having several of these top tier cards in a single deck might not be fun to play against, even if the other person has the same thing in their deck. Everyone is welcome to do as they choose, I will choose to keep my unique decks as they were made and will gladly play others with their unique decks. If I want a game to deck build there are dozens of other games to choose from, one the reasons I like this game (at least in theory) is that I won't have to optimize a deck versus a meta that changes every week, I won't have to experience playing against someone who blew their entire paycheck on their new control deck and now I get to spend 30 minutes watching them play a game while I can do nothing the most of the match and I enjoy enjoy this game for $10 for a deck that is tournament ready.

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3 minutes ago, schild said:

Pretty sure it's going to be blown up with the first expansion. New decks will either be all new cards (great!) and a legacy deckbuilding format will exist that will let you make decks with all sets or expansions will be old cards with some new cards (dumb, stupid) and you're just buying the same stuff over and over.

Theoretically, it's simply in their best interest to have deckbuilding be ALL the cards and standard to be their latest full sets.

 

Edit: the more I think about this the more I want answers before release

There is the possibility for more houses, I saw a video interview with one of the FFG crew and mentioned it being a possibility if the game took off. With the way the decks are built I can see it being possible for these first gen decks to be viable against fourth gen decks because the power creep can be put in check a little more easily with the generation.

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More houses would be a mistake.

The only question they have to answer is "how do people use their old cards."

The answer to that isn't "let's wait and see," they 100% have an actual answer already and for a ccg of any sort it should be part of the pitch.

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6 minutes ago, schild said:

More houses would be a mistake.

The only question they have to answer is "how do people use their old cards."

The answer to that isn't "let's wait and see," they 100% have an actual answer already and for a ccg of any sort it should be part of the pitch.

Why would more houses be a mistake?

How do people use their old cards? By playing the deck they come in, of course. This system they have will let people play more of their old cards than any ccg ever has. How many thousands of common/uncommon cards are NEVER used in a regular ccg?

My point exactly: This isn't a ccg....and until people realize it we'll keep having these discussions and they'll be disappointed. Unless you build your own ruleset for deckbuilding, which is fine, but probably broken as all ****, because this wasn't intended in card design.

Edited by Palpster

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But it is a ccg

They're just selling us 35 cards for $10 instead of 15 cards for $4

I'm not disappointed at all. The entire structure is brilliant.

Edited by schild

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1 minute ago, schild said:

More houses would be a mistake.

The only question they have to answer is "how do people use their old cards."

The answer to that isn't "let's wait and see," they 100% have an actual answer already and for a ccg of any sort it should be part of the pitch.

I don't see anything preventing people from using old cards, if anything I imagine the old decks might be playable throughout the whole life of the game. Assuming FFG did not purposely make their new cards stronger. From what I have seen from other card games old cards are typically playable either. The cards were either determined overpowered and banned or were average and the power creep made the cards worthless. I remember when I first started playing mtg and I thought Shivan dragons and serra angels were some of the best creature cards, I imagine there is no one who still thinks this today.

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2 minutes ago, schild said:

But it is a ccg

They're just selling us 35 cards for $10 instead of 15 cards for $4

I'm not disappointed at all. The entire structure is brilliant.

This is a deck collecting game if anything, collecting cards is worthless. We collect whole unique decks with this game

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I'll probably buy a starter and two additional decks to play with family or friends, then let's see how often this gets pulled off the shelf.

Even if the game is played frequently, I could imagine that getting more than some dozen decks becomes less and less interesting as soon as individual cards keep reappearing.  At that point, I'd rather look at future expansions - say new Houses and new mechanics.

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The usual reason for power creep is to get players to play the new cards and buy sets. That or they rotate every few years.

But with this format you don't need either. The deck doesn't change. 

You just release a new set with new cards and just stop producing the old one. The old decks are still valid. The only change is what new decks you can open.

New houses are almost certain if we get more expansions. It allows them to mix themes and mechanics, as well as create new mechanics that don't fit current houses. 

But they can still keep old houses as well, with some new cards mixed in. Have 3 new houses, And use 4 old houses with about 25-50% old cards and the rest new. There is only an 11% chance of even getting a combination of only old houses. Add in the new cards and even smaller chance of a duplicate. Besides, if I was them I would have a database of every deck we printed. Every time a new deck list is generated check it against this database, if there is a match just scrap it and run again.

Thus you get a set with about 150 new cards or so, And <100 reprints.

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2 hours ago, Ywingscum said:

I want to know what cards are in the starter pack before I decide if I’ll buy the starter.  Are the complete decks? What houses are they?

From the Quick Start Rules.

Miss "Onyx" Censarius is Brobnar-Dis-Shadows & Radiant Argus the Supreme is Logos-Spectrum-Untamed.

Also, and I didn't notice this before, the Product Page shows that the Starter Box comes with 2 additional, random decks.

Quote

The Keyforge: Call of the Archons starter set is the perfect place to begin your adventures on the Crucible. As you race to gather Æmber and unlock the Crucible’s hidden vaults, you need to all the help you can get, and in this set you will find all the implements you need to begin your journey. Providing you with two training decks: Miss “Onyx” Censorius and Radiant Argus the Supreme, as well as two unique Archon Decks and a collection of keys, tokens, chain trackers, and status cards, this set provides you with everything that you and your chosen opponent need to start playing!

Not sure if the "Training Decks" are full, 36+1 card decks or not, but the randoms are.

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