Is anyone concerned about generic officers?

[Collins 119]

30 minutes ago, Caimheul1313 said:

I can't tell if this is sarcasm? I can name a fair number of decorated veterans of past wars, and many historical figures who are only known for their prowess in battle. Napoleon, Duke Wellington, George Washington, Sitting Bull, Leonidas, Desmond Doss, etc, etc.

 

Sorry, yes, I was being sarcastic. as people have said that they cannot stand to see named characters etc which of course is ridiculous in my view.

 

18 minutes ago, Caimheul1313 said:

To your last point, many people play Star Wars RPGs without including the named characters anywhere in their games. I really enjoy the universe itself, not just specific characters in the universe. 

 

surely thats not true. Every character in an RPG has a name.... just not Luke, Leia, Han or Daddy Dark Helmet

[Squark 2,555]

Just now, Caimheul1313 said:

Provided the images are accurate, that is not the design direction FFG took. The Generic commanders are cheaper, slimmed down versions of Veers and Leia for 50 points, and no unique command cards. Single model unit, 4 health, 2 Courage.

... That is a little worrying to be honest. While I'm glad the forge your narrative fans are getting the units they need to truly create their own armies, trimming down Veers and Leia is difficult without creating an incredibly dull unit or the Legion equivalent of the flotilla problem in Armada.

[CaptainRocket 527]

1 minute ago, Caimheul1313 said:

Provided the images are accurate, that is not the design direction FFG took. The Generic commanders are cheaper, slimmed down versions of Veers and Leia for 50 points, and no unique command cards. Single model unit, 4 health, 2 Courage.

Um... To me it looks like they do seem to have unique command cards.

However they also do seem to be single model units

 

4 hours ago, jocke01 said:

Well i like named heroes before generics, but that is a personal preference.

I get My chewbacca and han combo so I'm happy.

I'm looking forward to grand army games with Luke & Leia for one player and Han and Chewie for their partner!!! ❤️

 

 

 

[Caimheul1313 2,990]

Just now, Collins said:

surely thats not true. Every character in an RPG has a name.... just not Luke, Leia, Han or Daddy Dark Helmet

That is a fair point. My point was more that not everyone wants to include the "main" characters, and instead have their own character with their own backstory, which is easier for many to do with a unit that does not have a name on it, than one that says "Leia" and therefore evokes a very specific history/backstory/characteristics. X-wing is almost a better example, or IA skirmish. 

[jcmonson 302]

2 minutes ago, CaptainRocket said:

Um... To me it looks like they do seem to have unique command cards.

However they also do seem to be single model units

 

I'm looking forward to grand army games with Luke & Leia for one player and Han and Chewie for their partner!!! ❤️

 

 

 

Unique Command Cards have an image of the unit in the upper right hand corner, these don't so they can be used by any commander.

[Collins 119]

2 minutes ago, Caimheul1313 said:

That is a fair point. My point was more that not everyone wants to include the "main" characters, and instead have their own character with their own backstory, which is easier for many to do with a unit that does not have a name on it, than one that says "Leia" and therefore evokes a very specific history/backstory/characteristics. X-wing is almost a better example, or IA skirmish. 

ah right, I'm with you on that one!

[Caimheul1313 2,990]

5 minutes ago, CaptainRocket said:

Um... To me it looks like they do seem to have unique command cards.

 

Look closer at the Command cards. They do not specify a commander on them, just "Rebel only." Compare to the command cards from Leia:

Notice Leia's picture and name in uppermost left right hand corner, indicating you have to include her in your army to include these cards in your Command hand, and that you must select her to issue orders for that card. The Command cards in the Specialist boxes do not have an image, nor a name. The only restriction is "<FACTION> ONLY" down in the special effects area of the card.

Edited August 2, 2018 by Caimheul1313
Can't tell my left from my right >_<

[CaptainRocket 527]

4 minutes ago, Caimheul1313 said:

Look closer at the Command cards. They do not specify a commander on them, just "Rebel only." Compare to the command cards from Leia:

 

5 minutes ago, jcmonson said:

Unique Command Cards have an image of the unit in the upper right hand corner, these don't so they can be used by any commander.

Ah, you are quite right!  Sorry, I missunderstood what you meant.

That's fun then, makes the cards interesting for players who don't wanna take that unit!

Also it looks like the unit can be used as a personnel upgrade on a regular trooper squad? Anybody with young eyes able to make out what that does for you?

[jcmonson 302]

It looks like it adds Inspire 1 and becomes the unit leader

[WAC47 1,796]

And increases the unit’s courage value by 1. 

[Caimheul1313 2,990]

5 minutes ago, CaptainRocket said:

That's fun then, makes the cards interesting for players who don't wanna take that unit!

Also it looks like the unit can be used as a personnel upgrade on a regular trooper squad? Anybody with young eyes able to make out what that does for you?

Agreed, it does obfuscate the Command Card even when only one unique Commander/Operative is taken. 

Seconding what @jcmonson. Looks like the card says "This unit gains Inspire 1" (with reminder text for Inspire), and that the added model is the Unit Leader.

 

Edit: and what @WAC47 said. +1 Courage

Edited August 2, 2018 by Caimheul1313

[jcmonson 302]

1 minute ago, WAC47 said:

And increases the unit’s courage value by 1. 

That is true I was just quickly looking at the bold text.

[AintNoPoser 117]

If you're complaining about "trooper spam" then you need to play a new game. The whole game is a trooper based combat game. There's nothing wrong with a spam of troopers. That's how I run. If anything the non-unique commander does is allows us to get even more creative with our armies due it's low point cost. 

[awesomeclaw 7]

30 minutes ago, Squark said:

... That is a little worrying to be honest. While I'm glad the forge your narrative fans are getting the units they need to truly create their own armies, trimming down Veers and Leia is difficult without creating an incredibly dull unit or the Legion equivalent of the flotilla problem in Armada.

We're already limited to taking two commanders anyway. As I see it, taking cheap commanders just frees you up to spend more points on more interesting units elsewhere, or to get a bit more flexibility in terms of giving orders and viable deployments.

[Squark 2,555]

8 minutes ago, awesomeclaw said:

We're already limited to taking two commanders anyway. As I see it, taking cheap commanders just frees you up to spend more points on more interesting units elsewhere, or to get a bit more flexibility in terms of giving orders and viable deployments.

That's the crux of the issue- If the generic commanders are too efficient, they crowd out the unique commnders. Taking Vader is already a huge opportunity cost; generic commanders could push him out completely.

[Vineheart01 6,403]

Trooper spam is only an issue atm because currently there is very little tailored to deal with them other than more troopers.

The bulk of whats in the game thats not raw trooper vs trooper is geared to deal with vehicles.

Trooper spam might die down once we get all the announced stuff, both because Elites will cut back on numbers due to their cost and also emplacements creating no-go-zones.

[Caimheul1313 2,990]

14 minutes ago, awesomeclaw said:

We're already limited to taking two commanders anyway. As I see it, taking cheap commanders just frees you up to spend more points on more interesting units elsewhere, or to get a bit more flexibility in terms of giving orders and viable deployments.

Building upon @Squark's comment, my local meta has determined that more activations is the better build and has an easier time of winning games. Taking a Rebel officer instead of Leia allows you to include an extra bare bones Rebel Troopers squad, at the relatively cheap cost of her unique cards. If it is your only officer, than as I have pointed out earlier, it (for now anyway) nullifies the new 1 pip Empire Command card. Seeing 2 of your opponent's cards isn't useful when you know the only cards they could have in their hand. 

[awesomeclaw 7]

1 hour ago, Caimheul1313 said:

Building upon @Squark's comment, my local meta has determined that more activations is the better build and has an easier time of winning games. Taking a Rebel officer instead of Leia allows you to include an extra bare bones Rebel Troopers squad, at the relatively cheap cost of her unique cards. If it is your only officer, than as I have pointed out earlier, it (for now anyway) nullifies the new 1 pip Empire Command card. Seeing 2 of your opponent's cards isn't useful when you know the only cards they could have in their hand. 

Sure, but if he's your only commander then he's also going to be a pretty big target, since he's pretty squishy. If he goes down it's going to be super easy to start panicking your trooper spam, especially if you're playing against someone who can hand out extra suppression. Also, even a pretty maxed out group of 6 corps units is only around 600 points at the moment. There's still interesting decisions to be made on the rest of your force, and maybe you'd rather spend those 40 points on a commander that has some staying power and some extra abilities.

[UnitOmega 2,818]

So, corps "spam" is always gonna happen in some form in this game. You NEED 3 corps units minimum when you start, and you need 1 commander. But, on the other hand, you can only go up to 6 corps units. You can easily do this with the current commanders and still have like half your points left, so the generic ones don't actually hurt that. In fact I'm pretty sure you can actually fit Veers and 6 fully loaded Stormie squads and still have enough left over for some naked bikes. 

What this should do is enable you to sprinkle in higher volumes of the more expensive Special Forces and Operators mixed in with your Corps requirements, or allow more flexibility with Support and Heavies. 

[Caimheul1313 2,990]

2 minutes ago, awesomeclaw said:

Sure, but if he's your only commander then he's also going to be a pretty big target, since he's pretty squishy. If he goes down it's going to be super easy to start panicking your trooper spam, especially if you're playing against someone who can hand out extra suppression. Also, even a pretty maxed out group of 6 corps units is only around 600 points at the moment. There's still interesting decisions to be made on the rest of your force, and maybe you'd rather spend those 40 points on a commander that has some staying power and some extra abilities.

Nimble and 2 extra hit points does not strike me as that much extra staying power. if you put her in a position where your opponent can focus fire, she is going down with very little more effort than the Generic. 

[awesomeclaw 7]

5 minutes ago, Caimheul1313 said:

Nimble and 2 extra hit points does not strike me as that much extra staying power. if you put her in a position where your opponent can focus fire, she is going down with very little more effort than the Generic. 

I was thinking more like a decent speeder pilot or a good sniper deployment. Even Luke and Vader are not too difficult to take down if you charge them in without thinking.

[Caimheul1313 2,990]

Just now, awesomeclaw said:

I was thinking more like a decent speeder pilot or a good sniper deployment. Even Luke and Vader are not too difficult to take down if you charge them in without thinking.

Both of which could equally take down Leia or Veers with little extra difficulty. The extra trooper unit could be used to shoot at the speeder pilots, and snipers are ALWAYS going to be a threat against Commanders depending on if there is LoS blocking terrain. 

[Squark 2,555]

16 minutes ago, Caimheul1313 said:

Both of which could equally take down Leia or Veers with little extra difficulty. The extra trooper unit could be used to shoot at the speeder pilots, and snipers are ALWAYS going to be a threat against Commanders depending on if there is LoS blocking terrain. 

Well, the sniper rifle we've seen so far will usually bounce off heavy cover (one average hit, with only a 23% chance for 2 hits/crits. There's also the possibility you roll only one crit to factor in, but I'm not in front of a spreadsheet right now to calculate those odds), at least.

Edited August 2, 2018 by Squark

[Caimheul1313 2,990]

2 minutes ago, Squark said:

Well, the sniper rifle we've seen so far will usually bounce off heavy cover (1.25 average hits), at least.

Fair, but in my opinion support Commanders should be hugging heavy cover whenever possible, if not hiding out of line of sight. They would still place a Suppression, putting the Commander halfway to Suppressed. As a reminder, Inspire triggers AFTER the Rally step, and specifies "other" units. 

[Matt Antilles 333]

Not concerned, I'm actually gonna have a hard time justifying the generic Rebel officer over Leia. The extra 40 points you spend to get her gives you soooo much over this guy.

Not sure an extra naked Trooper unit is worth it.