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CLONE WARS CONFIRMED

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On 8/4/2018 at 1:37 AM, Spider said:

Imagine the smallest number possible. Halve it. Then divide that number by the amount of craps I don’t give.

This statement is mathematically problematic. By definition there is no smallest imaginable number, because as you yourself note, any number can simply be halved to become even smaller. And then I'm not sure I understand how many craps I'm dividing by. Is it zero? Because then the result is undefined, or in some cases infinite. Is it really small? Cause if it's less than one, that actually makes how much you care bigger. If it's more than one, well, then you do actually have some craps to give. For some reason I feel like you actually don't care very much, but that's the only interpretation not supported by your statement!

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On 8/1/2018 at 8:16 PM, HolySorcerer said:

Serious question.  If the kids grew up with the prequels why would they care at all?  The films were terrible, both for kids and adults.  The adults had to sit through the most poorly shot, poorly written, boring garbage in cinematic history, while the kids had to watch boring political dialog and people walking down hallways or sitting on couches.  They had no nostalgia holding them there, why would they stay?

I guess I'm just baffled that anybody has any interest in prequel stuff, but I'm just a grumpy old man.  I'll leave you kids to play with your padmes and midiclorians and sand.  Just stay off of my lawn!

TLJ had worse directing and writing than the prequels and people are defending it.  Not everyone has taste.

I gotta say that the Z-95, Actis, and Mankvim 4 are all pretty sweet ships from the clone wars, and the Defender class corvette is awesome too, and holy **** do I want more trandoshian space safari shenanaggins if thry go that way.

Since X-wing has no plot whatsoever, you dont need to voice JarJar or whatever to fly with or against these ships.  And if your opponent DOES dress up like a trade federation racist allegory, then you can defeat them and at least get some measure of justice

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On 8/3/2018 at 7:37 PM, Spider said:

Imagine the smallest number possible. Halve it. Then divide that number by the amount of craps I don’t give....

 

2 hours ago, fhdz said:

This statement is mathematically problematic. By definition there is no smallest imaginable number, because as you yourself note, any number can simply be halved to become even smaller. And then I'm not sure I understand how many craps I'm dividing by. Is it zero? Because then the result is undefined, or in some cases infinite. Is it really small? Cause if it's less than one, that actually makes how much you care bigger. If it's more than one, well, then you do actually have some craps to give. For some reason I feel like you actually don't care very much, but that's the only interpretation not supported by your statement!

I suppose this would be the mathematical version of the grammatically incorrect "I could care less".

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On 8/1/2018 at 8:44 PM, MalusCalibur said:

What concerns me (and should at least register with anyone overjoyed by this news) is that the design team had enough trouble balancing three factions together, never mind then SEVEN they're setting themselves up for with this. I was concerned enough that they would be able to handle the five that the Resistance and FO split would create. Adding the prequel factions too seems like insanity - and for that matter, were there really that many prequel ships worth talking about? We already have the ARC-170, Z-95 and Y-Wing, the LAAT/i gunship seemed like an atmospheric thing (not that that stopped the Striker, I suppose)...so that leaves the Jedi and Sith ships (potentially moderately interesting) and a bunch of nameless, faceless droid ships for whom pilot abilities wouldn't make any sense at all.
What else is there? The friggin' banana boat N-1 from Phantom Menace? Dear lord I hope not.

Agree fully on balance. FfG suck at futureproofing.

As for new ships though... Mankvim fighters, Bullababs, Mandalorean everything, Actis, Trandoshian stuff, Jedi Defenders, etc... theres a reasonable number of untapped ships. I'll admit i cant see more than 8 ships for any of the 4 new factions aside from maybe the Republic, but the game could be dead in a few waves anyway

Edited by Vontoothskie

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17 minutes ago, Vontoothskie said:

 

As for new ships though... Mankvim fighters, Bullababs, Mandalorean everything, Actis, Trandoshian stuff, Jedi Defenders, etc... theres a reasonable number of untapped ships. I'll admit i cant see more than 8 ships for any of the 4 new factions aside from maybe the Republic, but the game could be dead in a few waves anyway

I think both the Republic and CIS have significantly more than 8 ships without digging too deep past the Prequels and the Clone Wars series. Resistance and FO will likely struggle though, depending on the new Resistance cartoon. 

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20 minutes ago, mazz0 said:

I have a problem with the term “dead game” - does a game stop being fun when there hasn’t been new stuff for it for a while?

Partially IMO. For some people (me included) the hype for upcoming releases is part of the fun. 

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On 8/1/2018 at 7:43 PM, LordFajubi said:

This pretty much cements my opinion that rebels and imperials are complete for xwing. Between rereleases and now 4 other factions needing to catch up there isn’t much need to make anything new for old school. Happy about the jedi fighter though, loved those in galaxies.

I'm honestly cool with that. I'm content with my Empire and rebel stuff.

Give some of the other factions some love.

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6 hours ago, fhdz said:

This statement is mathematically problematic. By definition there is no smallest imaginable number, because as you yourself note, any number can simply be halved to become even smaller. And then I'm not sure I understand how many craps I'm dividing by. Is it zero? Because then the result is undefined, or in some cases infinite. Is it really small? Cause if it's less than one, that actually makes how much you care bigger. If it's more than one, well, then you do actually have some craps to give. For some reason I feel like you actually don't care very much, but that's the only interpretation not supported by your statement!

You seem to have missed that he is dividing by the number of craps he DOESN’T give, presumably, based on his tone, all of them. So you are dividing by an arbitrarily large number of craps. 

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1 hour ago, mazz0 said:

I have a problem with the term “dead game” - does a game stop being fun when there hasn’t been new stuff for it for a while?

With an asymmetrical, list building game like this it is impossible to perfectly balance everything, meaning some lists/combos are more potent than others. Without a regular influx of new material to change the meta, such a game will eventually become “solved”, which can result in the game no longer being fun. 

Now, a well designed game, which I think x-wing is, can be reasonably well balanced so that the effect is delayed quite some time, and even when it is, be close enough to balanced that skill still plays a significant role, but in general, yes, a game can stop being fun without new releases. 

Somewhat related, keep in mind for a lot of people, their enjoyment of a game comes from exploring new options. Without a regular influx of new material, they end up exploring all the options and loose out on that aspect of enjoyment. 

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2 hours ago, LordBlades said:

I think both the Republic and CIS have significantly more than 8 ships without digging too deep past the Prequels and the Clone Wars series. Resistance and FO will likely struggle though, depending on the new Resistance cartoon. 

Agreed - without intentional design from Disney to introduce more ships, the sequel trilogy is going to be rough. I am hoping they pull it out though - would like to see more FO ships :) 

Barely thinking at all I got to 6 for CIS, so I am sure we can find more with a review of the content. 

42 minutes ago, Sir Orrin said:

I'm honestly cool with that. I'm content with my Empire and rebel stuff.

Give some of the other factions some love.

Agreed. I don’t mind buying my conversion kits and sitting around for a while. 

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1 hour ago, ScummyRebel said:

Agreed - without intentional design from Disney to introduce more ships, the sequel trilogy is going to be rough. I am hoping they pull it out though - would like to see more FO ships :) 

Barely thinking at all I got to 6 for CIS, so I am sure we can find more with a review of the content. 

Sith Infiltrator
Vulture Droid
Droid Tri-Fighter
Hyena Bomber
Belbullab-22 (Grievous' ship)
Ginivex-class starfighter (Asajj ship)
Geonosian fighter
Umbaran fighter
Sheathipede shuttle
Maxillipede shuttle
Rogue-class fighter (MagnaGuard Fighter)
HMP Gunship
Dooku's solar sailor

13, and this is all just the strictest on-screen canon (TV and movies only) - there is more in canon and much more in legends.

Edited by eMeM

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4 hours ago, LordBlades said:

I think both the Republic and CIS have significantly more than 8 ships without digging too deep past the Prequels and the Clone Wars series. Resistance and FO will likely struggle though, depending on the new Resistance cartoon. 

The republic sure. i can find 11 ships that make sense, but CIS?

Droid fighter, hyena bomber, heavy droid fighter, droid squidship, bellubab, mankvim, the manned genoshian fighter, sith infiltraitor, and the solar sailor... so 9.   But thats mining all of the prequels and clone wars, and 2 of those are extreme longshots as dogfighters (the squid and solar sailor)

What did I miss?

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4 minutes ago, eMeM said:

Sith Infiltrator
Vulture Droid
Droid Tri-Fighter
Hyena Bomber
Belbullab-22 (Grievous' ship)
Ginivex-class starfighter (Asajj ship)
Geonosian fighter
Umbaran fighter
Sheathipede shuttle
Maxipede shuttle
Rogue-class fighter (MagnaGuard Fighter)
HMP Gunship
Dooku's solar sailor

13, and this is all just the strictest on-screen canon (TV and movies only) - there is more in canon and much more in legends.

I question what function the solar sailor would serve. A single slot command ship?

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2 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

I question what function the solar sailor would serve. A single slot command ship?

Bump people with its shield upgrade that lets you attach a translucent sail part to bug your opponent?

I mean it wasn't armed and was practically only used by Dooku, but I doubt it is a strong contender for a early release if at all. 

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2 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

I question what function the solar sailor would serve. A single slot command ship?

I'm sure they can think of something, like tractor beam shenanigans as apparently this was something this ship could do. FFG gave an unarmed space tug and an unarmed escape craft attack 2, so I'm not worried about that, and wookiee says there was an option to arm it.

But it's not a coincidence I put it at the end of my list :P

Looking at the wookiee, I also missed an enlarged Sheathipede, and a bunch of freighters, although those would arguably be Scum. A case could be made for the HH-87 Starhopper, but again maybe Scum is a better place for this one.

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34 minutes ago, Animewarsdude said:

Bump people with its shield upgrade that lets you attach a translucent sail part to bug your opponent?

I mean it wasn't armed and was practically only used by Dooku, but I doubt it is a strong contender for a early release if at all. 

Maybe it will be more akin to the Scum-lennium Falcon's Escape Pod.

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4 hours ago, mazz0 said:

I have a problem with the term “dead game” - does a game stop being fun when there hasn’t been new stuff for it for a while?

Well new players dont get in as easily, so it becomes harder and harder to play as veteran players move on. Eventually your game cant be played at all in practical terms. See Lazerburn etc.

2.0 is no longer a tabletop game... its now a hybrid online card game/miniatures game. That killed my local scene on announcement, so now its kinda dead for me? The term feels appropriate

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47 minutes ago, Vontoothskie said:

Well new players dont get in as easily, so it becomes harder and harder to play as veteran players move on. Eventually your game cant be played at all in practical terms. See Lazerburn etc.

2.0 is no longer a tabletop game... its now a hybrid online card game/miniatures game. That killed my local scene on announcement, so now its kinda dead for me? The term feels appropriate

Would having the cost PDF at the store help any, at least to help keep the existing group? 

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6 hours ago, Vontoothskie said:

The republic sure. i can find 11 ships that make sense, but CIS?

Droid fighter, hyena bomber, heavy droid fighter, droid squidship, bellubab, mankvim, the manned genoshian fighter, sith infiltraitor, and the solar sailor... so 9.   But thats mining all of the prequels and clone wars, and 2 of those are extreme longshots as dogfighters (the squid and solar sailor)

What did I miss?

Sheathipede, Umbaran fighters, Utapau fighters, Assajj's fighter, droid gunship, Droch-class boarding ship. I think that's all the X-Wing scale ships on screen for the CIS. 

 

 

Edited by LordBlades

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13 hours ago, Vontoothskie said:

2.0 is no longer a tabletop game... its now a hybrid online card game/miniatures game. 

It's really not, though.  You need the app (or the pdf, or the quick-build cards) to make your list, and that's it.  Once you have a list and are ready to play, the app becomes irrelevant.

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21 hours ago, LordBlades said:

Partially IMO. For some people (me included) the hype for upcoming releases is part of the fun. 

 

19 hours ago, Forgottenlore said:

With an asymmetrical, list building game like this it is impossible to perfectly balance everything, meaning some lists/combos are more potent than others. Without a regular influx of new material to change the meta, such a game will eventually become “solved”, which can result in the game no longer being fun. 

Now, a well designed game, which I think x-wing is, can be reasonably well balanced so that the effect is delayed quite some time, and even when it is, be close enough to balanced that skill still plays a significant role, but in general, yes, a game can stop being fun without new releases. 

Somewhat related, keep in mind for a lot of people, their enjoyment of a game comes from exploring new options. Without a regular influx of new material, they end up exploring all the options and loose out on that aspect of enjoyment. 

Yeah, I’m sure some people will stop playing and many will play less often when the game stops receiving updates, but that just makes the game less popular, not dead.  Using hyperbolic terms like that just means it becomes ambiguous when you want to use it for a game that’s actually dead.

I also don’t see balance being a problem.  After official support ends I suspect the community will settle on the correct costing for everything.

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