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CLONE WARS CONFIRMED

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50 minutes ago, Punning Pundit said:

The "tyranny" the CIS wanted to escape from was the Republic opposing the various capitalist invasions of defenseless worlds. At least, that's what we see in Ep1. 

What defenseless world were the Geonosian attacking in ep. 2, when the Clone Army was first deployed?

 

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4 minutes ago, LordBlades said:

What defenseless world were the Geonosian attacking in ep. 2, when the Clone Army was first deployed?

 

Supplying weapons and a droid army to a known insurgency group.

I always thought of the Confederacy as a magnificent con. The Star Wars 1% telling the populace that it was the Republic's fault they were paid crap and had horrible working conditions. "If those gosh-darn tariffs would go away, we'd pay all of you way better! We certainly wouldn't just increase our margins and treat your worse to make sure we meet the new demand."

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24 minutes ago, OmegaLolrus said:

Supplying weapons and a droid army to a known insurgency group.

I always thought of the Confederacy as a magnificent con. The Star Wars 1% telling the populace that it was the Republic's fault they were paid crap and had horrible working conditions. "If those gosh-darn tariffs would go away, we'd pay all of you way better! We certainly wouldn't just increase our margins and treat your worse to make sure we meet the new demand."

Pretty much. While there were Worlds and people who had more legitimate concerns and/or grievances with the Republic, they were led by those seeking power or personal gain.

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4 hours ago, Giledhil said:

Again, find a source or it's just your opinion.

None of the movies state that any of the ships are an improvement over some other craft.  That's all lore from the old WEG RPG, so none of it is canon.

The only time we are told that a ship design is meant to be an improvement is the TIE Defender in Rebels.

4 hours ago, Jo Jo said:

Lets face it. The only reason why we get new ships each movie is to sell more toys.

Exactly.

All 7 factions will have ships of the same power level because gameplay >> fluff.  What we need is faction flavor.

The beginnings of WWII featured biplanes vs. monowings.  The end added jets.  The Korean War still featured the best prop driven planes vs. the newest jets.

It's possible for several eras of technology to coexist.

2 hours ago, Koing907 said:

Time to pick a faction. Hopefully FFG will keep from putting good upgrades in only one (or two) ship boxes.

Yep.

Galactic Empire for 1.0 play, Republic for 2.0.  I can now have the best of both worlds.

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12 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

 

The beginnings of WWII featured biplanes vs. monowings.  The end added jets. 

It's possible for several eras of technology to coexist.

Yep.

 

LOL.

Monowing reaped biplane's asses. Then fast enough biplanes were assigned to very specific missions, that could use their slow speed, like sea rescue.
Jets reaped prop plane's asses, and soon enough after the war propeller monowing planes were used only for instruction duty, not combat.

Edited by Giledhil

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11 hours ago, Nyxen said:

Saying the CIS is the bad guys really overlooks the politics of the Clone Wars. Arguably, the faction that wanted freedom from a tyrannical government that used an army of slaves to enforce its will should be seen as the good guys.

Well, that also completely ignores the fact that the Clone Wars is a false-flag against a manufactured* enemy.

*Intentionally meant both ways.

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41 minutes ago, Giledhil said:

Then fast enough biplanes were assigned to very specific missions, that could use their slow speed, like sea rescue.

Or torpedo bombing - the Swordfish was unusually good in that respect.

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1 hour ago, OmegaLolrus said:

I'd say the vast, vast majority of the actual members of the Confederacy had legitimate concerns. The Republic was a festering crap-hole too. I think it's the environment that the Sith had worked to create for the last thousand years, so they could seize power.

Holy ****. Someone else who actually noticed the underlying theme. The Clone Wars and the resultant Empire came about from a tiny cabal of Sith playing a 1000 year long game right under the noses of the Galactic Republic and the Jedi Council. The council only caught on that something was happening when it was basically too late to stop it. Not that their pride and staunch traditionalism helped matters. We haven't seen the millennia's worth of manipulations, only the beginning (Darth Bane if he's still canon) and Palp's tightening of the noose. :)

Edited by Hiemfire
Auto correct being an ***.

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2 hours ago, OmegaLolrus said:

Supplying weapons and a droid army to a known insurgency group.

I always thought of the Confederacy as a magnificent con. The Star Wars 1% telling the populace that it was the Republic's fault they were paid crap and had horrible working conditions. "If those gosh-darn tariffs would go away, we'd pay all of you way better! We certainly wouldn't just increase our margins and treat your worse to make sure we meet the new demand."

It's not hard to convince people of that though, as both the Republic and the Jedi order are just bloated shadows of what they used to be by the time of the Clone Wars. 

 

Think Naboo for exampke. What did the Republic do about it? Talked in the Senate. How much convincing do you think other planets would need after that regarding how much aid they could expect from the Republic? 

 

IMO, there are no good guys in the Clone Wars, just like in most wars. Just 2 different brands of evil. 

Edited by LordBlades

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1 hour ago, LordBlades said:

It's not hard to convince people of that though, as both the Republic and the Jedi order are just bloated shadows of what they used to be by the time of the Clone Wars. 

 

Think Naboo for exampke. What did the Republic do about it? Talked in the Senate. How much convincing do you think other planets would need after that regarding how much aid they could expect from the Republic? 

 

IMO, there are no good guys in the Clone Wars, just like in most wars. Just 2 different brands of evil. 

The thing is that one side regularly commits war crimes, targets civilians, supports slave trade etc. etc. and the other is... bureaucratic? It's not really an equivalent. People of the CIS senate decieved by Dooku, who don't know what's going on in the trenches, may think they are fighting the good fight, but you seeing from an objective perspective how both sides act, cannot.

EDIT Another pretty important thing to consider - the often repeated argument of the corruption in the Senate. The Senate was corrupt because of... corporations meddling in the government affairs. The very same corporations which are leading the secession movement, do you see the problem here? Complaining on the corruption of the government because of corporations, when the alternative CIS proposes is a government run by corporations.

Edited by eMeM

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2 minutes ago, eMeM said:

The thing is that one side regularly commits war crimes, targets civilians, supports slave trade etc. etc. and the other is... bureaucratic? It's not really an equivalent. People of the CIS senate decieved by Dooku, who don't know what's going on in the trenches, may think they are fighting the good fight, but you seeing from an objective perspective how both sides act, cannot.

The Republic does use an army of slaves though and routinely treats them as state property. They're also constantly buying more. That's pretty big. 

 

They also tolerate slave trade (and criminal empires) , by taking no action against groups like the Hutts before or during the Clone Wars. Qui Gon for example is rather indifferent to the situation of Shmi and Anakin Skywalker and only secures the boy's release because he has an interest in him. 

 

Ultimately, while the Republic doesn't target civilians on purpose, I don't recall of any circumstance where any special care is taken to avoid harming enemy civilians, like Geonosians or Umbarans for example. 

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13 minutes ago, LordBlades said:

The Republic does use an army of slaves though and routinely treats them as state property. They're also constantly buying more. That's pretty big. 

 

They also tolerate slave trade (and criminal empires) , by taking no action against groups like the Hutts before or during the Clone Wars. Qui Gon for example is rather indifferent to the situation of Shmi and Anakin Skywalker and only secures the boy's release because he has an interest in him. 

 

Ultimately, while the Republic doesn't target civilians on purpose, I don't recall of any circumstance where any special care is taken to avoid harming enemy civilians, like Geonosians or Umbarans for example. 

Agreed about the clone army.

Tatooine is not a Republic world, it's statet extremely clearly in the movie. The Republic doesn't act like galactic police running around invading planets and bringing democracy.

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33 minutes ago, LordBlades said:

They also tolerate slave trade (and criminal empires) , by taking no action against groups like the Hutts before or during the Clone Wars. Qui Gon for example is rather indifferent to the situation of Shmi and Anakin Skywalker and only secures the boy's release because he has an interest in him. 

The problem there is it would require meddling in the affairs of non-Republic worlds, in the case of Tatooine and the Hutts. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Qui Gonn was passing through, and bought one slave and freed him. This is a lot smaller scope than the Republic rolling in with an army and enforcing non-slavery laws on Tatooine. Or even simply economic sanctions against whatever government Tatooine may have.

As Padme said, Slavery is outlawed in the Republic. They can't police the entire universe, and would get accused of overstepping their territory if they tried.

The Republic rotted from within, and the Jedi fell to their own hubris, but this doesn't make the Sith or the Seperatist rebellion "right". Which was the whole point of the story.

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