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Swordbreaker

Monster Making

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NOTE: I'm not fan of Final Fantasy, so I don't know much about these beasts. I'd say something just to help working as a base for something more specific done by who really know the creature in game.

BEHEMOTH (Nemesis)

Bra 5 | Agi 2 | Int 2 | Cun 3 | Wil 3 | Pre 3
Soak 10 | Wounds 40 | Strain 15 | Defense 0/0
Skills: Athletics 1, Brawl 2, Resilience 3, Survival 2, Vigilance 3.
Talents: Adversary 2 (upgrade difficulty of all combat checks against this target twice).
Abilites: Silhouette 3, Sweep Attack (Behemoth can spend 1Tryumph on a successful Brawl check to hit the target as well as anyone engaged with the target).
Equipment: Claws (Brawl; Damage 12; Critical 3; Range [Engaged]; Knockdown, Sunder).

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8 hours ago, Bellyon said:

NOTE: I'm not fan of Final Fantasy, so I don't know much about these beasts. I'd say something just to help working as a base for something more specific done by who really know the creature in game.

BEHEMOTH (Nemesis)

Bra 5 | Agi 2 | Int 2 | Cun 3 | Wil 3 | Pre 3
Soak 10 | Wounds 40 | Strain 15 | Defense 0/0
Skills: Athletics 1, Brawl 2, Resilience 3, Survival 2, Vigilance 3.
Talents: Adversary 2 (upgrade difficulty of all combat checks against this target twice).
Abilites: Silhouette 3, Sweep Attack (Behemoth can spend 1Tryumph on a successful Brawl check to hit the target as well as anyone engaged with the target).
Equipment: Claws (Brawl; Damage 12; Critical 3; Range [Engaged]; Knockdown, Sunder).

I'd also give it a couple ranks of Primal magic and Signature Spell with an attack spell (different depending on which game's Behemoth you're using).

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On 8/2/2018 at 12:15 AM, Bellyon said:

BEHEMOTH (Nemesis)

Bra 5 | Agi 2 | Int 2 | Cun 3 | Wil 3 | Pre 3
Soak 10 | Wounds 40 | Strain 15 | Defense 0/0
Skills: Athletics 1, Brawl 2, Resilience 3, Survival 2, Vigilance 3.
Talents: Adversary 2 (upgrade difficulty of all combat checks against this target twice).
Abilites: Silhouette 3, Sweep Attack (Behemoth can spend 1Tryumph on a successful Brawl check to hit the target as well as anyone engaged with the target).
Equipment: Claws (Brawl; Damage 12; Critical 3; Range [Engaged]; Knockdown, Sunder).

This is really nice.

After reading the core book's section on creating adversaries and the adversary talent, i can't put my mind on abilities and equipment (or attacks); how do you figure out the abilities and equipment outside of weapons (such as claws or tentacles). How do you calculate the damage and critical values? Let's say when you convert an owlbear from D&D, how do you convert the damage dice plus modifiers into sheer genesys damage - also the crit value. It's fine for weapons, it is listed somewhere in the books but how do you define the damage and crit values for horns, or claws? It is not listed anywhere, unless i missed it.

Do you use your imagination and knowledge of the reference monster, or perhaps you are simply using a system of your own making?

Edited by Shirys

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If you want to make a "big boss" particularly perilous, try these talents (in addition to Adversary):

Durable: two or three ranks of Durable can keep a big bad in a fight a lot longer, and mitigates some of the instant-kill threat of a Rune of Severing (or similar crit-boosting effects).

Devastating: when this adversary inflicts a Critical Injury, +10 is added to the resulting Critical Injury result for each rank of Devastating.

My own rule of thumb for both of these talents is to rate the talent 1 + half the adversary's Brawn rating (rounded up). So an ancient dragon with Brawn 6, and both talents, would have Durable 4 and Devastating 4. I don't recommend going much higher than that, unless your players are demigods themselves, or can resurrect themselves!

Edited by Direach

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7 hours ago, Shirys said:

This is really nice.

After reading the core book's section on creating adversaries and the adversary talent, i can't put my mind on abilities and equipment (or attacks); how do you figure out the abilities and equipment outside of weapons (such as claws or tentacles). How do you calculate the damage and critical values? Let's say when you convert an owlbear from D&D, how do you convert the damage dice plus modifiers into sheer genesys damage - also the crit value. It's fine for weapons, it is listed somewhere in the books but how do you define the damage and crit values for horns, or claws? It is not listed anywhere, unless i missed it.

Do you use your imagination and knowledge of the reference monster, or perhaps you are simply using a system of your own making?

Hi Shirys,

I've done a lot of monster design, and there isn't a specific formula to follow... it's mostly a matter of experimentation and comparison to see what works best. For example, here are the stats for an owlbear (Rival) and a dire owlbear (Nemesis), and some notes below about how I created them. Apologies for formatting, it's not my strong suit:

Owlbear (Rival) – Few creatures are as bad-tempered and aggressive as the owlbear. They fearlessly attack anything that intrudes on their territory, regardless of size.

Brawn: 4
Agility: 2
Intelligence: 1
Cunning: 3
Willpower: 2
Presence: 1

Soak: 6
Wounds: 22
M/R Defense: 0/0

Skills: Athletics 2, Brawl 3, Cool 2, Vigilance 2

Talents: None

Abilities: Silhouette 2

Night Vision (owlbears suffer no Perception penalties at night)

Berserker (when an owlbear suffers one or more wounds, it deals +2 damage with all attacks. If it suffers a Critical Injury, it deals +4 damage with all attacks)

Fearless (an owlbear is immune to fear from any source)

Multiattack (an owlbear does not increase the difficulty of combined checks to attack with its claws and bite, and may spend 2 Advantage or Triumph to hit with each additional weapon)

Equipment: Claws (Brawl; Damage: 8; Critical: 3; Range [Engaged]; Linked 1, Vicious 2), Bite (Brawl; Damage: 9; Critical: 2; Range [Engaged]; Vicious 2)

 

Owlbear, Dire (Nemesis) – The only thing more bad-tempered and aggressive than an owlbear is a dire owlbear. These massive predators dominate their territory and ferociously assault any intruders.

Brawn: 5
Agility: 3
Intelligence: 1
Cunning: 3
Willpower: 2
Presence: 1

Soak: 7
Wounds: 28
Strain: 18
M/R Defense: 0/0

Skills: Athletics 2, Brawl 3, Cool 3, Resilience 2, Vigilance 2

Talents: Adversary 1 (upgrade difficulty of all combat checks against this creature once)

Abilities: Silhouette 2

Night Vision (owlbears suffer no Perception penalties at night)

Berserker (when a dire owlbear suffers one or more wounds, it deals +2 damage with all attacks. If it suffers a Critical Injury, it deals +4 damage with all attacks)

Fearless (a dire owlbear is immune to fear from any source)

Multiattack (a dire owlbear does not increase the difficulty of combined checks to attack with its claws and bite, and may spend 2 Advantage or Triumph to hit with each additional weapon)

Equipment: Claws (Brawl; Damage: 10; Critical: 3; Range [Engaged]; Linked 1, Knockdown, Vicious 3), Bite (Brawl; Damage: 12; Critical: 2; Range [Engaged]; Pierce 2, Vicious 3)


Owlbears are a well-known D&D monster, and fairly easy to adapt. The owlbear has a number of traits that have been consistent over the years: bad-tempered, vicious, fearless. Those "legacy traits" are reflected in the abilities of both creatures. Multiattack is a talent I refined/adapted from other Genesys talents to represent the classic "claw/claw/bite" attack routine of many D&D monsters. The Claws attack also has Linked 1, so if the owlbear manages to generate four Advantage, it can hit twice with its Claws and once with its Bite. It's worth noting that play experience has shown me that creatures rarely generate enough Advantage to unleash their full range of attacks.

When setting a Brawn rating for a creature, don't get stuck on how strong it should be compared to something else. You can describe a creature as being as big and strong as you like. What you want to decide is how many dice is the adversary going to roll in combat. A big, powerful creature is almost always going to have a 4 or 5 in Brawn; if you want to underscore how powerful something is, you can increase the damage it deals further, or add other special abilities like being able to pick up and throw targets of smaller Silhouette (for example).

For combat skills, I have a pretty firm rule: an untrained adversary, no matter how powerful, never goes above three in their combat skill(s).  I never rank an animal higher than 2 in a combat skill, and I never rank a magical beast higher than 3. The owlbear gets a 3 in Brawl because it is both a magical beast, and known to be an aggressive and ferocious creature that spend virtually all its active time hunting and/or fighting. A trained adversary, like a death knight, or an intelligent monster like a dragon, could have a higher combat skill, but I would recommend not going higher than 4 except in very rare cases. An adversary with 5 yellow dice is going to roll a lot of positives, and plenty of Triumph.

Wounds and Strain are both kinda tough to gauge. It helps to compare them to printed examples, and see how this or that creature is statted out. How tough is a wampa from Star Wars? Is my creature tougher than that? How tough is a rancor? Or a dragon? Use existing examples as guidelines for assigning Wounds and Strain when you can. The owlbear is a tough opponent, and even the Rival version has high Wounds. The Nemesis version is even tougher, but it doesn't need incredibly high Strain, because it doesn't have anything to spend it on. Against a competent party of 3-4 players, Soak 7 and 28 Wounds will probably keep the creature in the fight for 3-4 rounds, enough time to dish out some serious punishment, but not long enough to overwhelm or exhaust the party.

I hope that's helpful! I'll answer any questions I can about monster design.

Sorry if I hijacked your thread, Swordbreaker! If I knew more about Final Fantasy creatures, I'd offer some input. :)

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17 hours ago, Direach said:

there isn't a specific formula to follow... it's mostly a matter of experimentation and comparison to see what works best.

To be honest, i suspected as such. Genesys allows a lot of flexibility in creating adversaries, compared to a limited (or restricting) templating system with preset values and gauges which you can't go around.

This has been very informative. Thanks for your detailed explanation. I'll keep your hints for the owl bear as a guide for creating monsters since i always worry about making the monster too powerful, to turn our gaming session into a frustrating party wipe XD

Would you set a monster ability above 5? like a dragon with Brawn of 6, or a master assassin (nemesis) with 6 cunning? I think it might be a bit too strong since PCs are limited to 5 but on the other side, a dragon has obviously more brawn than even the strongest human. Tough deal to achieve realism without breaking game balance.

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Only very rarely, and only for literally superhuman adversaries (ancient dragon, elder lich, demigods). The thing is that when the basic dice pool goes above 5, it's not so much a matter of if they'll succeed, but how significant their success will be (even at 5 you're going to succeed almost every time except against Daunting or Formidable difficulties). An ancient dragon with Brawn 6 and Brawl 4 is going to hit ruinously hard over and over, likely with multiple triumphs on its rolls.

If you want to model enormous strength, you can employ effects like Knockdown, Disorient, Sunder, even Concussive, requiring one Advantage to activate instead of two, or even activate on hit (not recommended, especially not with Concussive). If an adversary hits hard enough to shatter their weapons and armour in one hit, the players will quickly get the message that this thing is very strong.

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17 hours ago, Shirys said:

Would you set a monster ability above 5? like a dragon with Brawn of 6, or a master assassin (nemesis) with 6 cunning? I think it might be a bit too strong since PCs are limited to 5 but on the other side, a dragon has obviously more brawn than even the strongest human. Tough deal to achieve realism without breaking game balance.

depends on how big adversaries are, ...

also remember that there is a silhouette bonus for big adversaries in combat, which makes Brawn increases unnecessary.

if you really consider giving an adversary a chararcteristic of 6 give it a 5 instead and add a appropriate talent of tier 4 or 5 or combat qualities etc.

i have an unpolished excel you might want to look at. it uses simple tags from d20 (eg. medium, ninja, elemental) plus a dice level to calculate genesys base stats.

genesys_mob_role+size.ods.zip

Edited by Terefang

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On 9/15/2018 at 8:55 AM, Terefang said:

depends on how big adversaries are, ...

also remember that there is a silhouette bonus for big adversaries in combat, which makes Brawn increases unnecessary.

if you really consider giving an adversary a chararcteristic of 6 give it a 5 instead and add a appropriate talent of tier 4 or 5 or combat qualities etc.

i have an unpolished excel you might want to look at. it uses simple tags from d20 (eg. medium, ninja, elemental) plus a dice level to calculate genesys base stats.

genesys_mob_role+size.ods.zip

Thanks for all this ?

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On 9/15/2018 at 1:42 AM, Direach said:

If you want to model enormous strength, you can employ effects like Knockdown, Disorient, Sunder, even Concussive, requiring one Advantage to activate instead of two, or even activate on hit (not recommended, especially not with Concussive). If an adversary hits hard enough to shatter their weapons and armour in one hit, the players will quickly get the message that this thing is very strong.

Haven't thought about that. Thanks!

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On 9/13/2018 at 3:48 PM, Shirys said:

This is really nice.

After reading the core book's section on creating adversaries and the adversary talent, i can't put my mind on abilities and equipment (or attacks); how do you figure out the abilities and equipment outside of weapons (such as claws or tentacles). How do you calculate the damage and critical values? Let's say when you convert an owlbear from D&D, how do you convert the damage dice plus modifiers into sheer genesys damage - also the crit value. It's fine for weapons, it is listed somewhere in the books but how do you define the damage and crit values for horns, or claws? It is not listed anywhere, unless i missed it.

Do you use your imagination and knowledge of the reference monster, or perhaps you are simply using a system of your own making?

I answered something about in a topic, it's not complete but it's something that could help you. Check this topic: https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/274820-converting-creatures/?tab=comments#comment-3323239

We can talk more about this if you want :)

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On 11/18/2018 at 12:08 AM, Bellyon said:

 

I answered something about in a topic, it's not complete but it's something that could help you. Check this topic: https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/274820-converting-creatures/?tab=comments#comment-3323239

We can talk more about this if you want :)

Thanks for that. Those are very helpful hints.

I'm still a bit new to the system but so far, i prefer it to DnD (still love DnD though!). I'm mostly into the Terrinoth setting.

We can talk more about this, you have very nice ideas about monster conversion.

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7 hours ago, Shirys said:

Thanks for that. Those are very helpful hints.

I'm still a bit new to the system but so far, i prefer it to DnD (still love DnD though!). I'm mostly into the Terrinoth setting.

We can talk more about this, you have very nice ideas about monster conversion.

Thanks :)

You have saw this one?

Could give you some ideas as well.

Personally I think that's impossible to do a precise conversion in this case cause we have two system with a very different approach and gradations. We can found some round values like 5, 10, 15, 20, 25 to 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, but we'll find some things that are more problematic.

Genesys has a different approach to create and use creatures. It's something near D&D 4.0 instead of D&D 3.5, Pathfinder or D&D 5.0 in my opinion. It's more "game like", you know?

People who want to play Genesys should, in my opinion, think that the system is more action oriented and the scenes are much more open to narrative and cinematographic development than any version of D&D. D&D have a slow pace, being more tactical and rigid.

While creating adversaries using the Genesys system, first of all we need to think that an adversary will fit one of three "roles": minion, rival or nemesis. People who want to play Genesys should, in my opinion, think that the system is more action oriented and that the scenes are much more open to narrative and cinematographic development than any version of D&D. D&D have a slow pace, being more tactical and rigid.

Every creature in D&D could be a minion or a rival or a nemesis. So it's possible to create a single version of minion, rival and nemesis to every creature in the D&D/Pathfinder system. But we can make the things simplier doing one version. And it's possible to create a creature in a lot of versions in Genesys... so it's important to focus in few core aspects.

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15 hours ago, Bellyon said:

It's something near D&D 4.0 instead of D&D 3.5, Pathfinder or D&D 5.0 in my opinion. It's more "game like", you know?

I agree. 4th ED feels more like a board game, which i like - but a few of my friends are not too fond of board games (sadly!) so they enjoy this version less.

Problem is in 4th ED, PCs are way too OP and i feel like they steamroll every encounter with minimal damage (medium for solo encounters if things go awry). Since i more or less enjoy 5th ED, i'd rather play DnD~ish boardgames instead, for a while at least.

Then i found Genesys with a Terrinoth setting. I already tried SW EotE before an i really liked the system. Glad they imported it in something more flexible and generic. I like SW but i don't know why... i prefer fantasy for role playing characters.

Edited by Shirys

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Well, Star Wars is a very fantastic setting as well. There are a lot of species, class options, planets and creatures to explore. Off: I guess Starfinder (Pathfinder's space opera scenario) is based on Star Wars and Guardians of the Galaxy xD

But yes, in Genesys and D&D 4, creatures/npcs are more 'gamelike', and it's somethinh that, in my opinion, help a lot the creation of them. But the game itself and the structured gameplay are much more fluid and dynamic than D&D 5/Pathfinder.

Well, there are fans in this forum doing a lot of adaptations and Realms of Terrinoth has a lot of creatures/npcs as well. I haven't the RoT, so I don't know very well the content, eventhough I don't think I need it to create my own content to any medieval system.

If you need help to adapt something or want to expand my hints to convert creatures, just call me :)

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On 11/21/2018 at 6:54 PM, Bellyon said:

I haven't the RoT, so I don't know very well the content, eventhough I don't think I need it to create my own content to any medieval system.

I love that book.

The artwork is stellar. The lore is really engaging (though grim and dark at times; elves story is a bit Silmarillion~ish) which is separated in different ages (with each one their different Dark Lord); it felt like reading novellas about Terrinoth. The new races and classes are cool and felt really different from the ones in the Genesys core book (fantasy setting), plus the crafting/magic and rune system is really well done. Found a rune in test gameplays and it IS powerful, but difficult to use for the untrained.

Though reviews on the book were divided, i enjoyed it more than what the average review shows. My only concern is how likely FFG would release an hardcover adventure book like the ones available for SW. Though i have several good ideas, tons of descent tiles and minis to represent rooms and enemies and a handful of DnD 4th edition adventures which could be converted, i don't really feel like doing it; no time for it. I'd rather have a real adventure to entertain players, with real Terrinoth lore and Runebound NPCs that we're familiar with.

FFG has announced nothing of the sort yet.

Edited by Shirys

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