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Piratical Moustache

Updated/Redone Ship Stats

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Would you support FFG if the company did this? Which ships in your opinion need it the most? How would you sell this?

I would likely support the decision as a way of avoiding a 2nd Edition overhaul, as Armada is very well done on average, but some ships in my opinion need a tune up to be competitive. Personally the ships I think need rebalancing are the Victory-II, Gladiator-II, Assault Frigate Mk2, Pelta, and the Interdictor. The Victory-II should be able to go Speed 3 as that was the main improvement over the Victory-I lorewise, making it clumsy at that speed is fine just so long as it's capable of doing so. The Gladiator-II getting a red dice on the sides doesn't mean much as it lacks a turbolaser upgrade, as does the Interdictor Combat Refit. Both should in my opinion have it in order to better stand apart from the Gladiator-I and Suppression Refit. The Assault Frigate Mk2 I would like to be Command 2, for obvious in-game reasons, and the lore reasoning being that it was extensively automated to cut down on crew requirements. The Mk2 A variant should have an ion upgrade to go with those extra blue dice, and make that 9pt increase more justifiable. The Pelta and it's issues has a whole thread dedicated to it.

The point is, nobody can deny that some ships have been left out in competitive games, but Armada itself has no flaws large enough to justify a 2nd Edition. Now I don't want to buy a fourth VSD, so I would suggest a Card/Cardboard upgrade pack, split into Imperial and Rebel packages. Throw in new titles and maybe so squadron stuff and I'd feel fine paying 8-12 dollars for each. 

Obviously this all my opinion but I'm curious who agrees or disagrees with me and why.

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14 minutes ago, Piratical Moustache said:

The point is, nobody can deny that some ships have been left out in competitive games,

I deny it. I've seen all those ships played in extremely high level competitive play as recently as the last 6 months. No one can force you to try things outside the box, but also, there is a whole wide world of armada you are limiting yourself to if you assume half the ships are garbage (We all know only Admiral Leia is truly un-redeemable, back me up @geek19)

Victory II - I know a Canadian that loves Victory's, he stymied me at worlds. A local fleet with 2 victory's has been troublesome for people to beat in tourney's and we have what I consider a pretty competitive local scene with a lot of capable players.

Gladiator II - Flak glads, especially with ruthless strategists and Thrawn, have been a recently surging ship. I believe one finished second overall at Euro's?

AFMKII - played against a fleet with one just last night, while I was using a fleet I consider competitive at a high level, and it eked out a win over me. The difference between the B and the A is what ultimately won the game - most notably the double flak people sometimes forget about.

Pelta- top 4 at worlds. yes it has problems but if you focus on the things it does well instead of trying to patch up it's weaknesses it is a good little ship.

Interdictor - Interdictor Sloane is a powerful fleet archetype that has a few bad matchups that keep it out of the top tables usually, but if you look at 4th-8th you see a fair number of them which is enough for me. But the Interdictor (title), Brunson, Target Scramblers, Dcaps, HIE, Engine Techs load out makes for a fearsome ship only hindered by it's expense. I still think this could be an underutilized ship in some fleets that typically run an ISD but have alternate damage sources.

 

I think calling for redesigns on ships is an overreaction with the current state of the game.

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3 minutes ago, BrobaFett said:

I deny it. I've seen all those ships played in extremely high level competitive play as recently as the last 6 months. No one can force you to try things outside the box, but also, there is a whole wide world of armada you are limiting yourself to if you assume half the ships are garbage (We all know only Admiral Leia is truly un-redeemable, back me up @geek19)

Victory II - I know a Canadian that loves Victory's, he stymied me at worlds. A local fleet with 2 victory's has been troublesome for people to beat in tourney's and we have what I consider a pretty competitive local scene with a lot of capable players.

Gladiator II - Flak glads, especially with ruthless strategists and Thrawn, have been a recently surging ship. I believe one finished second overall at Euro's?

AFMKII - played against a fleet with one just last night, while I was using a fleet I consider competitive at a high level, and it eked out a win over me. The difference between the B and the A is what ultimately won the game - most notably the double flak people sometimes forget about.

Pelta- top 4 at worlds. yes it has problems but if you focus on the things it does well instead of trying to patch up it's weaknesses it is a good little ship.

Interdictor - Interdictor Sloane is a powerful fleet archetype that has a few bad matchups that keep it out of the top tables usually, but if you look at 4th-8th you see a fair number of them which is enough for me. But the Interdictor (title), Brunson, Target Scramblers, Dcaps, HIE, Engine Techs load out makes for a fearsome ship only hindered by it's expense. I still think this could be an underutilized ship in some fleets that typically run an ISD but have alternate damage sources.

 

I think calling for redesigns on ships is an overreaction with the current state of the game.

Well stated and reasoned, but I will demand a Speed 3 VSD2 regardless if for no other reason I painted one with red stripes. 

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I mostly agree with Broba.

I do wish the Victory took Support Team.  A little Engine Tech as an option would make it really nice.  Maybe too nice though and that's the problem.

The Glad is fine, as is the AFM2.

The Pelta, I agree with Broba, use it for what it's good at.

The Interdictor I have had a lot of fun with Recently, run a pair of them and they are nearly unkillable set up right.  Can they kill anything though?  I really see no need to run a Combat Refit though and I wish there was another title.  I also have another list I'm anxious to try with it.  Interdictors are competitive but similar to the Pelta you have to play them to their advantages not make them something they are not.

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I'm amenable to some redesigning, but some of the examples are currently used fairly well as @BrobaFett mentioned. The Combat Interdictor and to a lesser extent VSD-I (weird Warlord builds aside), Assault Frigate MkIIA, and Assault Pelta are definitely fairly uncommon nowadays, though. An online fleetbuilder like X-Wing 2.0 is getting would largely be capable of handling these types of concerns in a pretty low-hassle kind of way by being able to toggle points costs and upgrade bars, which is why a lot of Armada players (myself among them) are hoping for something like that eventually.

Two side notes:
#1 regarding the Glad-II, I don't dispute that it's a pretty decent compromise flakboat/missile boat nowadays as Broba already spelled out. It's got a place in the right kind of fleet (usually with Kallus on board and the Demolisher title to whip out lots of flak, potentially with Ruthless Strategists as well). That said, I would've loved a Glad-II that was a bit more differentiated from the Glad-I. Turning the side arcs into 2 red/2 black and replacing the ordnance slot with a turbolaser slot would've made for a really interesting ship option. Ah well.

#2 regarding ship changes based on the lore, I don't care. Sorry to be kind of rude, but I want to convey the feeling very directly. Every lore-based ship kind of gets its own interpretation based on various factors and then it gets run through the FFG machine based somewhat on those ideas (which can often be contradictory) as well as what kind of ship FFG wants to add to the game. The result is never going to please everyone and "because it's supposed to do X in one of the things it was in" just isn't a strong enough argument to me to justify an overhaul by itself.

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4 minutes ago, Irokenics said:

@Nostromoid, can you summon good ol clippy for these Armada 2.0 / recost ships etc threads too please?  ?

In my defense, I only started posting here about a week ago.  Also this might be one of the most well mannered corners of the internet. ?

Edited by Piratical Moustache

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The problem with different nav charts for different ships is confusion, especially if they can go different speeds.  It's just one more thing to balance around.  Furthermore, I don't agree with you about the ships needing fix.  They al have their niche, even if it isn't right now.  (For example, Weird warlord shenanigans can make one of the deadliest flakboats in the game.

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Peltas are good as is. Great carriers in one form and solid sources of Fleet Commands. I don't remember perfectly, but I have a feeling @shmitty is running the combat Pelta with Sato. Or am I wrong? They're also as tanky as demo can be without needing to be up in there like Demo usually IS.

VSD-II s with DCaps remain solid.

AF mk IIA's are.... Probably flak boats, I suppose. There's a Sato Paragon ship in there with it, but I have my own plans to.... Plan with.

Speaking of! @BrobaFett! You just made THE LIST! Im not sure what that list involves, but you'll ALL pay for this! You, and @Truthiness, and @CaribbeanNinja, and the rest of the haters! I just... Need... To win GenCon.

......

Daaaaaaamn it.

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No one likes the Vic’s limitations but that is part of the game no? No ship is perfect.

I am sympathetic tho. Manoeuvre is a big part of the game & Vics are not forgiving of mistakes, which does limit some fleet building choices on occasion.

If anything I think some admirals & fighter units are a bit over priced these days, eg: Tarkin & Vader respectively 

Edited by ISD Avenger

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I actually would like the see the Combat Retrofit of the Interdictor with a turbolaser slot. Honestly the suppression refit is just straight up better. Especially with Disposable capacitors a thing. 

Maybe give the Pelta speed 3 without the aid of engine techs with a AFmk2 speed 3 nav chart. Though honestly I think it is fine for the most part. I feel like Imperial ships need a relook more times than rebels. Especially the Arquitens. I love it and hate it at the same time.

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As a person who is just getting back into the game after a 6 Month brake only every coming here every so often to have a gander at whats what I think the game is in a good position and the points seam to be pretty good all round but if they were to do anything like improve some ships they could just do another campaign box and give us new ship cards for older ships or some sexy new title's and  new Admiral's... Just a thought...

 

 

 

Also  I am so Glad that the Glad is still doing strong as it was and still is my Favourite ship... By miles...

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I don't think any of the current ships need a redo, at least not beyond what they've done in the past by releasing upgrades that boost older ships in future expansions.

We might need a remake at some point in the future - will every ship still have a unique identity after ten more waves of ships? - but that's a hypothetical for the future.

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16 hours ago, geek19 said:

Peltas are good as is. Great carriers in one form and solid sources of Fleet Commands. I don't remember perfectly, but I have a feeling @shmitty is running the combat Pelta with Sato. Or am I wrong? They're also as tanky as demo can be without needing to be up in there like Demo usually IS.

Yep, I have grown to really like the Combat Pelta.  Used as a trailer, the low speed just doesn’t matter much.  Hits hard enough to finish off damaged ships and is really underrated as a flak boat.  

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1 hour ago, shmitty said:

Yep, I have grown to really like the Combat Pelta.  Used as a trailer, the low speed just doesn’t matter much.  Hits hard enough to finish off damaged ships and is really underrated as a flak boat.  

Indeed. And the 4 engineering makes it pretty sturdy. Especially with Leia. :D Healing 3 shields or 2 damage cards a turn. Or feeding projection experts.

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1 hour ago, shmitty said:

Yep, I have grown to really like the Combat Pelta.  Used as a trailer, the low speed just doesn’t matter much.  Hits hard enough to finish off damaged ships and is really underrated as a flak boat.  

Every day I learn more and more about your list, muahaha...

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On 7/31/2018 at 8:41 PM, geek19 said:

Peltas are good as is. Great carriers in one form and solid sources of Fleet Commands. I don't remember perfectly, but I have a feeling @shmitty is running the combat Pelta with Sato. Or am I wrong? They're also as tanky as demo can be without needing to be up in there like Demo usually IS.

VSD-II s with DCaps remain solid.

AF mk IIA's are.... Probably flak boats, I suppose. There's a Sato Paragon ship in there with it, but I have my own plans to.... Plan with.

Speaking of! @BrobaFett! You just made THE LIST! Im not sure what that list involves, but you'll ALL pay for this! You, and @Truthiness, and @CaribbeanNinja, and the rest of the haters! I just... Need... To win GenCon.

......

Daaaaaaamn it.

I think Shmitty is actually running an Assault believe it or not.

And Leia still sucks :D

Edited by Truthiness

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