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landoro

Rebel list, 2 points over, what to remove?

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Hi all
So with the realse of the preview of the commandos I can finally write my list like I want it. Not super excited by any of the commandos heavy weapons but I will try them.
I prefer a play style where I use more 1 of each than several of the same unit. So this following list lets me do more or less this.
However this left me with 2 points over the limit, the question is then what should I remove?
Take away a singel rebel trooper, use the Gatling blaster on the AT-RT instead of the Lasercannon or something else. ALso what do you think of the list in general? 
Luke Skywalker [160]
Force Push [10]
Force Reflexes [15]

Rebel Troopers [40]
Z-6 Trooper [22]
Rebel Trooper [10]

Fleet Troopers [44]
Scatter Gun Trooper [23]
Fleet Trooper [11]

Rebel Troopers [40]
Z-6 Trooper [22]
Rebel Trooper [10]
 
T-47 Airspeeder [175]

AT-RT [55]
AT-RT Laser Cannon [35]
 
Rebel Commandos 60
Proton Charge 26
 
Rebel Commandos Strike team 16
Sniper 26

Tot: 802

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(sadly) replacing the speeder with something would improve the list the most.

If you keep it I would suggest to remove a rebel trooper or downgrade the ATRT and get environmental gear on Luke.

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10 minutes ago, AshAngel said:

(sadly) replacing the speeder with something would improve the list the most.

If you keep it I would suggest to remove a rebel trooper or downgrade the ATRT and get environmental gear on Luke.

Does he really need env gear? He has jump which allows him to zoom around pretty effectively.

[edit] Wait nevermind, I just read the actual RRG entry for jump and wow that is some misleading card text.

Edited by awesomeclaw

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28 minutes ago, awesomeclaw said:

...

[edit] Wait nevermind, I just read the actual RRG entry for jump and wow that is some misleading card text.

It also took me a while to figure out that Luke is too lazy to jump twice per round ?

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6 hours ago, awesomeclaw said:

Does he really need env gear? He has jump which allows him to zoom around pretty effectively.

[edit] Wait nevermind, I just read the actual RRG entry for jump and wow that is some misleading card text.

What did you read in the jump text that made you second guess yourself?

My take is that jump is basically unhindered+ in that does everything unhindered does (ignore difficult terrain) plus also ignore impassable terrain height 1 or lower (thus negating the need to clamber/climb).

Is it just that you can only use jump once per activation, unlike an unhindered card which would allow you to move through barricades and other difficult terrain through two movement actions?

This was a topic of some of some discussion on another thread, which resolved in a general consensus that unhindered was wasted on Luke, but I’m curious if I’m still missing something on all this. 

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2 hours ago, Gengis Jon said:

What did you read in the jump text that made you second guess yourself?

My take is that jump is basically unhindered+ in that does everything unhindered does (ignore difficult terrain) plus also ignore impassable terrain height 1 or lower (thus negating the need to clamber/climb).

Is it just that you can only use jump once per activation, unlike an unhindered card which would allow you to move through barricades and other difficult terrain through two movement actions?

This was a topic of some of some discussion on another thread, which resolved in a general consensus that unhindered was wasted on Luke, but I’m curious if I’m still missing something on all this. 

awesomeclaw might be referring to the fact that the RRG entry for Jump doesn't say anything about ignoring (difficult) terrain. Only that you can pass over or end movement on elevated terrain. The reminder text does say to "ignore", but reminder text is not game text. Although it's only relevant when Luke lands in difficult terrain, instead of completely clearing it with the Jump movement. Having said that, we've been playing by the reminder text, as thus far those have been more indicative of the designers' intent when a potential conflict exists.

To answer @landoro's original question: I might consider dropping the "Rebel Trooper" upgrades and adding "Duck and Cover" to the Commandos. That saves 4 points.

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21 minutes ago, nashjaee said:

awesomeclaw might be referring to the fact that the RRG entry for Jump doesn't say anything about ignoring (difficult) terrain. Only that you can pass over or end movement on elevated terrain.

That’s what I thought when I first read that entry as well. But that’s not actually what it says. 

I quote:

“A unit that has the jump x keyword can perform the jump x card action. To perform this action, the unit performs a move as normal. However, the unit can pass over or end its movement on top of terrain that is height x or lower, measured from the unit’s starting position.”

So, first the unit performs its move “as normal” — a normal move being it’s usual speed/distance.

Next, it “can pass over terrain” — for Luke with Jump 1, that’s any terrain height 1 or lower. By definition, this would include both difficult and empassable terrain as long as it’s height 1 or below. 

Finally, he ends one height level from where he started — and this is key part for this discussion — “or lower.”

So, it can be one level up... or he can end his movement at exactly the same level or even any number of levels down. As long it’s as lower than the one level max. 

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@Gengis Jon, yeah I think all of that is uncontroversial. There was a thread debating it a while back (and I don’t want to take us too far off OP’s topic here), but the contentious part is what happens when Luke ends the Jump movement in difficult terrain. Some were arguing that the “pass over” clause does not come into effect there. And I can’t point to a hard line in the RRG that proves that wrong. Other than the intent of the reminder text.

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Thanks for replies all.

Yes, I also thought of Enviromental gear for Luke but I also came to the conclussion that it was unnecessary.

I think I just wrote the wrong point cost for the Sniper rifle but counted it correctly, so it should only be 2 points over.

Will see if the airspeeder stays or not, I have 2 more core units and an At-Rt, I also dont have the airspeeder, commandos or Fleet troopers yet, they are in the same order and will ship when teh commandos get released. 

The airspeeder might get cut if I find it no fun to play with.

Otherwise, a single rebel tropper might be the best thing, however I am slo contemplating using Jedi mind tric instead of FOrce Push which would save me some points, not as good maybe but could be fun to try something diffrent som everyone else also.

I am also starting to think I might switch the sniper and proton charge between the squads, a small twoman squad tha places bombs and a bigger squad that focuses on shooting the enemy with sharpshooter and Pierce. If you wanna arm bombs and then move away from them you wont be doing much shooting it seems?

Thanks for replies.

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21 hours ago, AshAngel said:

It also took me a while to figure out that Luke is too lazy to jump twice per round ?

I think even this is a bit contentious since the Jump text says to treat it as a move action.

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2 hours ago, awesomeclaw said:

I think even this is a bit contentious...

Is it?

Card Action:

“Each card action is a unique action; a unit can perform different card actions during its activation. However, a unit cannot perform the same card action more than once during its activation.”

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2 hours ago, awesomeclaw said:

I think even this is a bit contentious since the Jump text says to treat it as a move action.

[Edit: Gengis Jon was faster...]

The jump into difficult terrain might be a bit contentious, but I think this is not. Jump has a horizontal arrow, it thus is a 'card action' and 

"a unit cannot perform the same card action more than once during its activation." [Rules Reference 1.1.0 p. 11]

Therefore, 'environmental gear' is quite useful on Luke IMO: it allows him to speed-2-walk through barriers before/after jumping on/off/over terrain.

It's not a must-have, but for now I can't think of a better usage for any other 3-point-upgrade in the game.

 

'Duck and cover' and 'emergency stims' also might be worth trying out (they feel both a bit expensive though). For the Commandos in general I'm not sure about the most powerful squad combinations. 

5-men proton: will often be able to only shoot OR throw a charge

2-men proton: might be a bit squishy - so using LOS-blocking terrain will be super important

5-men sniper: good efficiency for pierce, but the sniper will probably often only shoot short range

2-men sniper: not great efficiency for pierce, good as a backline unit 

For now I would go with the 5-men sniper squad (or maybe even naked Commandos)) and a 2-men proton squad.

 

I could also see that 2-men squads turn out to be quite a bit stronger in general (especially if general activation efficiency is taken into account). 

Edited by AshAngel

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3 hours ago, Gengis Jon said:

Is it?

Card Action:

“Each card action is a unique action; a unit can perform different card actions during its activation. However, a unit cannot perform the same card action more than once during its activation.”

So in what contexts should it be treated as a move action? And in what contexts is it a card action?

 

[EDIT] OK, I've checked the official rulings and they state that card actions which are 'treated as' other types of action should be treated as both card actions and the other type of action (since this lets jump proc charge or other move-action abilities).

Edited by awesomeclaw

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