Vehicle upgrades: WYSIWYG?

[Caimheul1313 2,990]

1 minute ago, Turan said:

And really, you don't have to - in my test fitting, everything fit well enough that you could insert a weapon without gluing it and remove it to change weapons for your next game. I just chose to magnetize because I didn't want to risk breaking the pegs.

Huh, the weapons on my AT-RTs didn't seem to fit that snuggly, which was a big motivator in magnetizing them for me. Good to know! 

[Turan 166]

Well, sorry...as with any other product, accuracy of the pieces may vary slightly for person to person. Mine fit well enough that I didn't think they'd fall out from moving them, but yours might have been too loose.

[Caimheul1313 2,990]

8 minutes ago, Turan said:

Well, sorry...as with any other product, accuracy of the pieces may vary slightly for person to person. Mine fit well enough that I didn't think they'd fall out from moving them, but yours might have been too loose.

I'm aware, I just was mildly surprised as the pieces didn't seem designed to fit snugly enough to hold in place while moving around. 

[TauntaunScout 4,276]

All of my AT-RT's also needed glue for the weapons to even consider staying in at all, for even a hair of a second.

[jcmonson 302]

mine were the same way

[Hellfire33 40]

I just use a small pinch of blue poster tack so that I can change out my weapon loadout ... haven't had a problem thus far outside of the small price of removing the gun and tack and putting them away. At first, I got a small bit of chuckling and laughter at what I was doing, which surprised me cuz I'm not the first person to do this, but now they seem cool w/ it and some have even done the same 

Edited July 31, 2018 by Hellfire33

[Rmills228 22]

33 minutes ago, Hellfire33 said:

I just use a small pinch of blue poster tack so that I can change out my weapon loadout ... haven't had a problem thus far outside of the small price of removing the gun and tack and putting them away. At first, I got a small bit of chuckling and laughter at what I was doing, which surprised me cuz I'm not the first person to do this, but now they seem cool w/ it and some have even done the same 

This is what I'll do, great points.

[NoShieldsAllGuts 106]

It's already been said, your list defines what you can use, not the model.

[TauntaunScout 4,276]

6 hours ago, NoShieldsAllGuts said:

It's already been said, your list defines what you can use, not the model.

In the end I just built one of each. I will probably never use the flamer (seems a bit... too R rated for classic Star Wars?) but the guns can be used to remember which one has a comms upgrade, etc.

[Bohemian73 161]

I like WYSIWYG, so I used magnets, but I don't require my opponent to do it, as long as there is some way to tell the models apart, other than just cards. I would not like to play three identical models with just 3 different sets of cards. Counters should work okay for distinction. 

[arnoldrew 1,713]

On 7/30/2018 at 12:05 PM, Rettere said:

This is a silly question.

As a newbie to assembly-required games (coming straight from Xwing), I never heard of magnetization when assembling my core set of Legion. As such, if someone wants to be a jerk and tell me I can’t run a flamethrower ATRT because I glued the Gatling onto it, they will rapidly find themselves looking for a new gaming partner. 

I only have issues with it if my opponent begins the game with "This AT-RT has a Flamethrower but I actually equipped it with the Rotary Cannon, and this one has a Rotary Cannon but I gave it the Laser Cannon, and this one has all three weapons glued onto it and I'm going to pick the one that suits me best." If it causes me confusion then I'm not about that. Otherwise it doesn't really matter.

[Rmills228 22]

On 8/1/2018 at 7:02 AM, TauntaunScout said:

In the end I just built one of each. I will probably never use the flamer (seems a bit... too R rated for classic Star Wars?)

Tell that to Owen and Beru ...

[Zrob314 833]

On 8/1/2018 at 5:02 AM, TauntaunScout said:

In the end I just built one of each. I will probably never use the flamer (seems a bit... too R rated for classic Star Wars?) 

The original box art for Boba Fett had him shooting a flamethrower directly at the camera, so if we could handle it back in 1980.....

Also Jango used a flame thrower in Attack of the Clones.

[TauntaunScout 4,276]

54 minutes ago, Zrob314 said:

The original box art for Boba Fett had him shooting a flamethrower directly at the camera, so if we could handle it back in 1980.....

Also Jango used a flame thrower in Attack of the Clones.

Yeah but this is a rebel vehicle. Seems kinda evil for them. I built one that way just so I'd have 3 differently marked models though. I don't really care about prequels.

[Zrob314 833]

3 hours ago, TauntaunScout said:

Yeah but this is a rebel vehicle. Seems kinda evil for them.

I don't understand why a movement that is trying to defeat a galactic military that blew up a planet would draw the line at using fire.  

[Katarn 317]

5 hours ago, Zrob314 said:

I don't understand why a movement that is trying to defeat a galactic military that blew up a planet would draw the line at using fire.  

Ewoks eat people after cooking them alive. That's a pretty gribbly fate for the survivors of Endor.

As for the vehicles, I'll make sure mine have the right weapons but I'm not going to throw a wobbler if an opponent doesn't. 

Weirdly, around here we rarely look at an opponent's cards, even in games of Armada where they can change the abilities of ships quite dramatically.  If we ask about the cards we're entirely open, there just seems to be some unspoken agreement that the limited knowledge of the commander would be what we see on the board. It's like we've created a sort of fog-of-war regarding things our commander wouldn't be aware of such as boarding teams and upgraded turbolasers.  This is where having the right model can make the difference, but for all I know the only group to play this way is my little bunch in Kent.

[Zrob314 833]

4 hours ago, Katarn said:

Ewoks eat people after cooking them alive. That's a pretty gribbly fate for the survivors of Endor.

As for the vehicles, I'll make sure mine have the right weapons but I'm not going to throw a wobbler if an opponent doesn't. 

Weirdly, around here we rarely look at an opponent's cards, even in games of Armada where they can change the abilities of ships quite dramatically.  If we ask about the cards we're entirely open, there just seems to be some unspoken agreement that the limited knowledge of the commander would be what we see on the board. It's like we've created a sort of fog-of-war regarding things our commander wouldn't be aware of such as boarding teams and upgraded turbolasers.  This is where having the right model can make the difference, but for all I know the only group to play this way is my little bunch in Kent.

Odd, generally it is practice in my area that at the start of the match (for any of the FFG minis games) that we clearly read out what we've got.  This makes sure that everyone's lists are legitimate and no one put an illegal upgrade somewhere or they can't switch which trooper squad has the concussion grenades halfway through the battle.

[Katarn 317]

9 minutes ago, Zrob314 said:

Odd, generally it is practice in my area that at the start of the match (for any of the FFG minis games) that we clearly read out what we've got.  This makes sure that everyone's lists are legitimate and no one put an illegal upgrade somewhere or they can't switch which trooper squad has the concussion grenades halfway through the battle.

Good to know if I get it into my noggin to go to more tournaments- there's a certain level of etiquette in play there.

I suppose I trust in people to act honourably until proven otherwise. Mistakes are sometimes made with an illegal upgrade- when we find out about it we point it out for the future and just get on with the game.  

 

 

 

[docForsaken 92]

I just use a little bit of sticky tack (that I use to stick models to little bottles for painting" in the mounting hole and each of the weapons can stick in there easily.  works like a charm.

[docForsaken 92]

I just use a little bit of sticky tack (that I use to stick models to little bottles for painting" in the mounting hole and each of the weapons can stick in there easily.  works like a charm.

[docForsaken 92]

Sorry for the duplicate post!

Edited August 15, 2018 by docForsaken

[jocke01 920]

Well i magnetized mine, now they can rotate as well. In games like this I usually go by the models than the cards. In armada or x wing it's the opposite.

If you have 2 flamer at-rt's being laser cannons for a game it's usually not a big deal, but you can easy forget halfway into a game. 

I prefer wysiwyg because it makes things clear, but I also like customization on models. Like most things, IF you don't over do it then it's fine.

[BigBadAndy 640]

People are making this more complicated than it needs to be.  There is no WYSIWYG rule for vehicles in Legion.  Full stop.  Many of us have made our units WISIWYG because it’s fun and not too hard but that’s a separate issue.

The rule about unit modifications is not intended to be a back door WYSIWYG rule.  FFG knows how to say WYSIWYG and chose not to so your vehicle is defined by the cards.  There are plenty of tokens and techniques to identify units at the start of the match and avoid confusion.  I have played casually with unpainted and partially built models - and it hasn’t been a problem.  If your opponent is acting like an idiot and mixing around ATRT models complain to them and then to the tournament judge.  But there’s no rule that can prevent people from being a-holes and it doesn’t change the fact that there is no WYSIWYG rule for vehicles in Legion.

I think the modification rule is more about cutting the gun off one of the special infantry units or something that actually makes it hard to know what the unit is.

[Caimheul1313 2,990]

4 hours ago, BigBadAndy said:

I think the modification rule is more about cutting the gun off one of the special infantry units or something that actually makes it hard to know what the unit is.

For purposes of recognition, how is modifying the gun of the special infantry units incredibly distinct from modelling the AT-RT, T-47, or AT-ST with misleading weapons? Both entail a model not being armed accurately, and in such a way that your opponent cannot easily tell with what the model is armed. 

[BigBadAndy 640]

32 minutes ago, Caimheul1313 said:

For purposes of recognition, how is modifying the gun of the special infantry units incredibly distinct from modelling the AT-RT, T-47, or AT-ST with misleading weapons? Both entail a model not being armed accurately, and in such a way that your opponent cannot easily tell with what the model is armed. 

Because, effectively the trooper units are WYSIWYG. Each mini represents a weapon in the unit and  the ds-19 trooper is not simply a stormtrooper.  He is not interchangeable with the other stormtrooper minis.  So you can’t remove his distinguishing feature (his gun).  It would be very easy to confuse one of those special infantry minis for a standard infantry mini.  This matters for bringing his gun into the attack pool (line of sight) and in the (admittedly rare) event where a special trooper is the only eligible unit to take damage and would this need to be eliminated from the unit.

This is very different than the ATRT - which is always an ATRT regardless of which weapon it carries and not likely to be confused with an airspeeder.

edit: it’s also worth mentioning that every trooper unit comes with the special weapons minis and there’s inherently no challenge with identifying which is which UNLESS you modify them.  Whereas if you own an ATRT and glue a weapon on as instructed in the manual this is not a “modification” and it is a lot more understandable that you might want to run it with a different weapon upgrade.

Personally, if my opponent wants to run LEGO bricks in place of all his models that doesn’t bother me at all, as long as I can tell one from another.  I’m just trying to interpret the tournament rules as they are written.

Edited August 16, 2018 by BigBadAndy