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BenDay

The Force is Strong with this One

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I am still playing 1e but the force makes me nervous.

1. It seems to be very expensive (does this mean the designers are worried that it is too powerful?).

2. It is likely play tested the least (relatively) of all the mechanics since it is the new one, on top of that play testing doesn't seem to be their strong suite.

Is the post about vader being unstoppable just the first of many? 

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3 hours ago, BenDay said:

I am still playing 1e but the force makes me nervous.

1. It seems to be very expensive (does this mean the designers are worried that it is too powerful?).

2. It is likely play tested the least (relatively) of all the mechanics since it is the new one, on top of that play testing doesn't seem to be their strong suite.

Is the post about vader being unstoppable just the first of many? 

1. It is expensive because it is very powerful. It’s free dice mods that never goes away and (so far) cannot be shut down by anything. That’s really good. But it’s balanced by the high point tax you pay for it. 

2. Actually I suspect out of all the stuff that is being changed or added with 2.0 they have probably playtested the force the most. It’s pretty clear they’ve been working on this mechanic for a while and wanted to get it right (the high point cost is one indicator of that, and the fact that you can’t combine pilot talents with force talents is another. Obviously they found the need for both of these through playtesting).

(3.) the thread about Vader being unstoppable is a joke. Second edition isn’t even out yet. Yes I realize that some people are already proxying stuff but that’s a relatively small group, and no way indicative of the entire meta. Just because the small portion of X-Wing players that the OP of that thread has encountered in a handful of games hasn’t figured out how to deal with Vader yet doesn’t mean that nobody will once 2.0 is actually realized. Plus, When fully loaded, Vader takes up about half your list. He SHOULD be a monster to deal with, otherwise it wouldn’t be worthwhile bringing him. 

So calm down, the sky is not falling, the world is not ending. That fiery glow you see in the heavens is just the dawning of a glorious new day for X-Wing players everywhere. ;) 

Edited by Herowannabe

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3 hours ago, BenDay said:

I am still playing 1e but the force makes me nervous.

1. It seems to be very expensive (does this mean the designers are worried that it is too powerful?).

2. It is likely play tested the least (relatively) of all the mechanics since it is the new one, on top of that play testing doesn't seem to be their strong suite.

Is the post about vader being unstoppable just the first of many? 

I'd like to propose a slightly more positive view on the above points (in addition to tooting in the "it's not out yet" horn, but that's obvious anyway).

1. Expensive and powerful upgrades can make for incredibly interesting playstyles. Balancing literal game-changers is tricky, but pull it off correctly and it makes list building that much more exiting. The freedom they have now in pricing everything enables them to fine-tune that elusive sweet spot where making compromises for one or all ships can be immensely rewarding.

2. Got to agree with @Herowannabe on this one. They said they had plans years ago to advance to 2.0 eventually, and this forum alone is proof that the interactions of the system as we know it have been thoroughly discussed. Now they threw in something fresh- in their shoes, that's the one thing I wouldn't want to mess up. 

3. As far as we know Vader is about as unstoppable as he was all kitted out in 1.0. Sure, Vader can masterfully manipulate dice, but in 1.0 we could even add results and he still blew up. It's still X-Wing, single ships- even ones turtling as hard as OG Soontir- tend to bite it quite fast when you set your mind to it. 

 

Long story short- I'm going to give FFG the benefit of the doubt and be cautiously optimistic. No evidence I can see that they haven't learnt from past mistakes, and as far as I'm concerned, good old flawed 1.0 was already a rather fantastic first attempt.

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4 hours ago, BenDay said:

Is the post about vader being unstoppable just the first of many? 

That’s my post, and I only played him against a few other lists. I was genuinely asking if anyone else has found a list that handles him easily.

 

If he’s too much they’ll just up his price. It’s not something to worry over.

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56 minutes ago, JJ48 said:

<cue Ysalamiri upgrade announcement>

You joke, but I can definitely see room for something like this.

When we inevitably get a Republic faction...

Supreme Chancellor Palpatine, crew. 1^ Force.

"At the start of the Engagement phase, you may spend 1 Force token to select another ship at range 0-2. That ship cannot spend Force tokens for the rest of the round".

"The Dark Side of the Force clouds everything"

Just for the lolz have a Separatist crew card that does the same thing at the same cost, but call it Darth Sidious. Have a sensible chuckle whenever the two cards are against each other in a list. 

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25 minutes ago, GuacCousteau said:

You joke, but I can definitely see room for something like this.

When we inevitably get a Republic faction...

Supreme Chancellor Palpatine, crew. 1^ Force.

"At the start of the Engagement phase, you may spend 1 Force token to select another ship at range 0-2. That ship cannot spend Force tokens for the rest of the round".

"The Dark Side of the Force clouds everything"

Just for the lolz have a Separatist crew card that does the same thing at the same cost, but call it Darth Sidious. Have a sensible chuckle whenever the two cards are against each other in a list. 

It would need an ability that works against non force users, too, otherwise would be useless against those lists. 

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So right now the four force talents require you to spend the force points of your pilot to trigger.  Which means force, unlike charges, can be generated on one card an used on another.  But what if (and this is speculation not hysterics) the fifth one came with extra force points or if a crew was added to add force points to any ship (does this crew already exist?).  Unlike the charges for droids and ordnance, force seems like a general pool that can be spent on several options and if power creep or accretion is as inevitable as many other people who post on this forum say, then the force could be easily abused by designers.

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11 hours ago, pickirk01 said:

Vornskrs in a crew slot?

When attacking a force user, you may change 1 focus to a hit?

 

Vornskr: 0 points. Your other crew are removed. Your Pilot is removed. You must perform a 1-straight each round. You cannot attack. This ship is a tomb with a Vornskr in it.

 

BUT WOE TO ANY JEDI WHO ENTER

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1 hour ago, BenDay said:

So right now the four force talents require you to spend the force points of your pilot to trigger.  Which means force, unlike charges, can be generated on one card an used on another.  But what if (and this is speculation not hysterics) the fifth one came with extra force points or if a crew was added to add force points to any ship (does this crew already exist?).  Unlike the charges for droids and ordnance, force seems like a general pool that can be spent on several options and if power creep or accretion is as inevitable as many other people who post on this forum say, then the force could be easily abused by designers.

All force user crew do that. They dont add a force slot though. (well, besides Maul)

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eh, the force is cute and flashy and all, but I don't think it's going to make as a big a dent as some silly little underpriced combo that we're just not seeing right now

for example, 3KstKazG73NbMKIlkDlt0pIvbQa27j6BWrKFPTnSq0JWE0Uxnh2akzIfbGXhDusPepiN--zi9wLr3E90AElgWPjfWrkV2-Cl3nD267I0auiWv1ou1W_6enDQAukZJQ0wlCyEemu9 F6U31ipzcRHdtJufTIMpPveavf7vxGPbYjQh5KRlC8XL4duPHohJH1nyPpjfofaQQpSHowPZxx1aCAq2HoWBc7ShGT6n3tHsPYSaDbp5Kn9NmfZbrBVtAogqkq91qZHkjwb-KtzW

First of all, Jonus affects himself so that's an easy 42 points to spend

Second, Barrage Rocket Scimitars are a paltry 34 points each.

That's five ships with easy access to full mods running around at 178 points

 

El Capitan CaJonus (Elusive, Barrage) = 45

Sat Salvo, Barrage Gamma Ace = 42

Sat Salvo, Barrage Gamma Ace = 42

Barrage Rocket Scimitar = 34

Barrage Rocket Scimitar = 34

and yeah, that's a list with 3 points to spare

 

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here is a cute and flashy, I think you could put Fifth Brother and The Emperor on a Decimator and be able to do either of their abilities twice a turn,  it is 25 extra points but you could do it.  I am very curious about how 2.0 turns out. 

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5 hours ago, BenDay said:

here is a cute and flashy, I think you could put Fifth Brother and The Emperor on a Decimator and be able to do either of their abilities twice a turn,  it is 25 extra points but you could do it.  I am very curious about how 2.0 turns out. 

Twice in 1 turn, but you only regen 1 force per round, no matter how many sources of regen you have.

Still, something to try out.

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