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2 hours ago, Commander Kaine said:

 

But Luke faltering? That's great. 

Kylo? A treasure. 

Yoda was amazing.

 

I disagree about all three points, but the last in particular hurts my heart. 

What's so great about Yoda in TLJ? Even ignoring the completely idiotic force powers from beyond the grave.

Why the **** is ******* Yoda entitled to give any advice to anyone, especially Luke? One of the main points of Return of the Jedi, only enforced in the prequels was that he and Obi-Wan were wrong. Luke not only rejects Sheev's advances, but also Jedi masters' various wisdoms, like "let your friends die" (more or less what he also he said to Anankin when he was worried about Padme, that worked out splendidly) or "If you don't murder Vader we have already lost".

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19 minutes ago, eMeM said:

I disagree about all three points, but the last in particular hurts my heart. 

What's so great about Yoda in TLJ? Even ignoring the completely idiotic force powers from beyond the grave.

Why the **** is ******* Yoda entitled to give any advice to anyone, especially Luke? One of the main points of Return of the Jedi, only enforced in the prequels was that he and Obi-Wan were wrong. Luke not only rejects Sheev's advances, but also Jedi masters' various wisdoms, like "let your friends die" (more or less what he also he said to Anankin when he was worried about Padme, that worked out splendidly) or "If you don't murder Vader we have already lost".

 

Okay. So it ties together with Luke failing. 

It's not that the movie denies that Yoda (and the Jedi) made mistakes. They admit it. They failed, and then Luke came about with a new perspective, changed things, and it was great. Then, like his masters, he made a mistake with Ben. 

"We are what they grow beyond"

Why is he entitled to give advice? Because he failed. He made mistakes. He learned from them. Luke was about to make a mistake, because he was mad, and he sought to end the heritage of the Jedi because of a few mistakes. Yoda stopped him. 

The message of the film, is that we shouldn't throw out the baby with the bathwater. However cathartic it might feel to "let the past die".

 

But... if your chief problem with Yoda is that the wise master gives bad advice during the OT, then the problem isn't really in TLJ, now is it? 

Yes... Star Wars is dumb. Always has been. Your point? This wasn't dumb enough? Characters changed in 30 years time? They learned stuff? They continue to have problems after the credits end? 

 

Yoda and Ben was wrong in the OT, Luke was wrong in the ST. It seems senility is a big problem for Force Users. 

tumblr_inline_p2410fCzR81v3shpr_400.gif

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4 hours ago, Commander Kaine said:

What was good about TFA? 

I'm aware of the problems with TLJ, but it had redeeming qualities. 

 

TFA:

Literally ANH reshoot. I cannot and I will not forgive a third fricking deathstar. That cr@p is inexcusable. 

It destroyed the achievements of the OT. We don't see the good guys being happy. We don't care for the Hosnian System... we don't see the Republic... We see the same new hope beats, again. 

The beloved characters of the franchise are reduced to overgratitious cameos, where they just quote themselves. 

The hero does not struggle at all, just wins at everything. Luke got his *** kicked several times. He earned his place. 

Furthermore, everything that people freak out about on TLJ, is actually the problem of TFA. Snoke being a nobody? Yeah, that was never different. Have you seen Lost? JJ Abrams DOES NOT KNOW these things when he writes them. He makes them up as he goes. Or he doesn't. 

TFA is not a good representation of the star wars world, we do not see anything we can relate to. EXCEPT...

The visual design of every ship is just a boring ripoff of the original trilogy. It feels wrong. 

AND CHEWIE DOESN'T GET HUGGED. WHY IS REY HUGGED? 

 

Was Canto Bight kinda bad? Yes. Did the space battle make no sense? Yup. Was the hyperdrive kamikaze inconsistent with the world as we know it? Sure. 

(Did literally every star wars movie do something as dumb as these? Definitely)

 

But Luke faltering? That's great. 

Kylo? A treasure. 

Yoda was amazing.

 

What was GOOD about TFA? 

 

I get all of this. But if ANH was great than a reshoot of it should be great as well, right. For me space ghost Leia was inexcusable and unforgivable. 

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13 minutes ago, Pooleman said:

I get all of this. But if ANH was great than a reshoot of it should be great as well, right. For me space ghost Leia was inexcusable and unforgivable. 

I seriously don't see how anyone could think that watching the same events play out in the same universe is entertaining. 

Let me put it this way. 

 

If I was a teacher, and I was giving out an assignment to write movie scrips, the guy who submits TFA, gets an F for copying the ANH guy. It is not an original work. It is not something anyone should endorse... It is literally a remake. 

You know how they make Remakes of european movies in the US? The TFA is that movie. 

TFA is the Jimmy Fallon and Queen Latifah version of Taxi. 

Diet coke of star wars. 

The margarine of star wars. 

 

IF ANH didn't exist, I suppose TFA would be an enjoyable movie. But it does, and ANH is by far the superior version. There is simply no reason for TFA to exist. 

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2 minutes ago, ObiWonka said:

Two muffins are baking in an oven.

The first one turns and asks, "Is it just me or is it hot in here?"

The second one screams "AAAHHH, A TALKING MUFFIN!!!"

Two fish in a tank.

 

One turns to the other and says 'How do you drive this thing?'

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10 hours ago, Pooleman said:

The Force Awakens was good. The Last Jedi was complete crap. 

:lol:

Now that's a Joke if I ever heard one.

TFA was rehash episode 4, but a rather mediocre one at best which does show how good episode 4 was. But Episode 7 was not that good.

TLJ it had its moments such as Kylo getting told off by Snoke, but it was half prequel pointless and pretty bad. Not an exact rehash of episode 5 but the best parts of that movie were the ones closer to episode 8 and the worst parts was when it tried to go all needless social commentary. I am surprised they didn't give Snoke an orange wig.

Yeah I find it funny that those that don't like TFA like TLJ but those that don't like TLJ liked TFA. I am in the former camp but when TLJ was bad TLJ was just complete porg poodoo.

But back on the topic of bad jokes about Star Wars here is one of the worst.

AcrobaticFaroffBeauceron.gif

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The TFA Vs TLJ debate has always struck me as strange. At least now all parties seem to accept that neither are good movies. For myself, the only wholly enjoyable aspect to them was sitting in the theatre with friends successfully guessing every plot point, and even many lines of dialogue. Both were awfully predictable, neither had any vision whatsoever, and neither were original creations. Astonishing, for such big budget films.

I went camping last weekend. It was in tents.

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8 hours ago, Commander Kaine said:

Okay. So it ties together with Luke failing. 

It's not that the movie denies that Yoda (and the Jedi) made mistakes. They admit it. They failed, and then Luke came about with a new perspective, changed things, and it was great. Then, like his masters, he made a mistake with Ben. 

"We are what they grow beyond"

Why is he entitled to give advice? Because he failed. He made mistakes. He learned from them. Luke was about to make a mistake, because he was mad, and he sought to end the heritage of the Jedi because of a few mistakes. Yoda stopped him. 

The message of the film, is that we shouldn't throw out the baby with the bathwater. However cathartic it might feel to "let the past die".

 

But... if your chief problem with Yoda is that the wise master gives bad advice during the OT, then the problem isn't really in TLJ, now is it? 

Yes... Star Wars is dumb. Always has been. Your point? This wasn't dumb enough? Characters changed in 30 years time? They learned stuff? They continue to have problems after the credits end? 

I know the heavy handed message of the film, Yoda is the worst person to deliver it.

The problem is not Yoda giving bad advice, but the lack of understanding of the themes by the "script"writer. Bad advice from Yoda is deliberate, intentional and makes complete sense. Jedi are stubborn and can't accept that they failed, that over time the Order drifted away from the Light Side, they want to train Luke like they've been trained, to let go of attachments, of emotions, but this is not the way, as evidenced by Luke's love for his father winning in the end.

Yoda didn't learn from his mistakes. His Order failed and then his last hope would have failed if he followed the training.

But instead of building on the  previous movies Johnson does a complete 180 on both Luke and Yoda. Yoda started learning after he died, Luke stopped believing in people after redeeming Darth ******* Vader. It's absurd.

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14 hours ago, Commander Kaine said:

I seriously don't see how anyone could think that watching the same events play out in the same universe is entertaining. 

Let me put it this way. 

 

If I was a teacher, and I was giving out an assignment to write movie scrips, the guy who submits TFA, gets an F for copying the ANH guy. It is not an original work. It is not something anyone should endorse... It is literally a remake. 

You know how they make Remakes of european movies in the US? The TFA is that movie. 

TFA is the Jimmy Fallon and Queen Latifah version of Taxi. 

Diet coke of star wars. 

The margarine of star wars. 

 

IF ANH didn't exist, I suppose TFA would be an enjoyable movie. But it does, and ANH is by far the superior version. There is simply no reason for TFA to exist. 

Looking at TFA on its own, without comparing it to ANH, it’s a good movie. Pretend that TFA was the first Star Wars movie you ever watched. TFA is an excellent stand alone movie. 

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9 hours ago, eMeM said:

I know the heavy handed message of the film, Yoda is the worst person to deliver it.

The problem is not Yoda giving bad advice, but the lack of understanding of the themes by the "script"writer. Bad advice from Yoda is deliberate, intentional and makes complete sense. Jedi are stubborn and can't accept that they failed, that over time the Order drifted away from the Light Side, they want to train Luke like they've been trained, to let go of attachments, of emotions, but this is not the way, as evidenced by Luke's love for his father winning in the end.

Yoda didn't learn from his mistakes. His Order failed and then his last hope would have failed if he followed the training.

But instead of building on the  previous movies Johnson does a complete 180 on both Luke and Yoda. Yoda started learning after he died, Luke stopped believing in people after redeeming Darth ******* Vader. It's absurd.

How is it absurd that Yoda started to learn after his death? He literaly gives Luke a nod at the end of RotJ implying 'your were right'. It is incredibly fitting that when Luke makes similar mistakes, Yoda is there to teach him a final lesson. Luke never believed that the power of love can redeem anybody, he just knew that his father still cared for him, so he tried to redeem him specificaly. For Kylo he knows that if he is redeemable, Luke would never be the person able to do that because of the way events turned out*.  Kylos actions also demonstrate little regret and it appears that showing mercy for his mother was the last time he indulged his light side.  After that he hasn't even shown any trace of regret (unlike Anakin when he became Vader). I like how the Yoda-Luke exchange gives some closure to the old 'the Jedi were wrong' thing by showing that Yoda isn't beyond learning from the past.

*And before anyone goes off on the 'they turned Luke into a child murderer'-shtick: Being able to see the future is a heavy burden, especially when you can't do it accurately. Luke could never have killed Ben. But Luke also could never not contemplate doing so after seeing the horrible acts Ben would later commit as Kylo Ren.  That moment of contemplation ultimately being what pushed Kylo over the edge is a classic trope when it comes to dealing with premonitions and slots in well with the person Luke has become after the failiure of his order.

 

Oh yeah, a joke: I'm going to try really hard at my last 1.0 SC!

Edited by Admiral Deathrain

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10 hours ago, Admiral Deathrain said:

How is it absurd that Yoda started to learn after his death? He literaly gives Luke a nod at the end of RotJ implying 'your were right'. It is incredibly fitting that when Luke makes similar mistakes, Yoda is there to teach him a final lesson. Luke never believed that the power of love can redeem anybody, he just knew that his father still cared for him, so he tried to redeem him specificaly. For Kylo he knows that if he is redeemable, Luke would never be the person able to do that because of the way events turned out*.  Kylos actions also demonstrate little regret and it appears that showing mercy for his mother was the last time he indulged his light side.  After that he hasn't even shown any trace of regret (unlike Anakin when he became Vader). I like how the Yoda-Luke exchange gives some closure to the old 'the Jedi were wrong' thing by showing that Yoda isn't beyond learning from the past.

*And before anyone goes off on the 'they turned Luke into a child murderer'-shtick: Being able to see the future is a heavy burden, especially when you can't do it accurately. Luke could never have killed Ben. But Luke also could never not contemplate doing so after seeing the horrible acts Ben would later commit as Kylo Ren.  That moment of contemplation ultimately being what pushed Kylo over the edge is a classic trope when it comes to dealing with premonitions and slots in well with the person Luke has become after the failiure of his order.

 

Oh yeah, a joke: I'm going to try really hard at my last 1.0 SC!

I like you... You also like Punishers, and you make sense. That's all I need.

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