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2nd Edition Pilots - Winners & Losers: Rebel Edition

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While I realize we don't have points or upgrades yet, we do still have enough info on pilot abilities, dials, stats and actions to start note some of the bigger winners and losers compared to 1.0. Here's my top 3 for each:

Winners

Luke Skywalker - As a Force user, he's going to be expensive. But that pilot ability is fantastic. "When  you become the defender, before dice are rolled, recover 1 Force." Luke is going to be able to freely spend force points to modify his offense and use Force Powers, secure in the knowledge that he'll be constantly regenerating them. Plus, the X-Wing chassis gets all those improvements thanks to its S-Foils. 

Bodhi Rook - The whole U-Wing chassis can fall into this category. You don't have to telegraph your Pivot Wing anymore, can rotate 90 degrees, pick up a Coordinate action and have a smaller base that should be easier to maneuver with. Bodhi goes from a miserable PS4 in 1.0 to a respectable IN4 in 2.0.

Lando Calrissian - Whenever he executes a blue maneuver, he can either perform a free action or pass it to someone else. He's doing this at PS5, which is one of the highest in the game. In an era where few ships are going to be able to Focus and TL in the same turn, Lando has the ability to Focus and TL in the same turn. 

Losers

Miranda Doni - Pretty much a given considering how much of a monster she was in 1.0. Worse turret options, plus downgraded regen that only works if she has no shields and only on primary attacks. She also loses access to the old Sabine and can't drop bombs at PS8 anymore. Should be much more balanced, but hard to argue she hasn't lost a lot.

Kyle Katarn - He dropped from a PS6 to an IN3. His pilot ability is now restricted by arc. And while the new Crow title gives him a 3-die attack from the forward arc, it also only allows him to retain a max of two focus tokens during the end phase.

Tycho Kelchu - He's just gone. That beautiful crazy beast is just gone.

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I think the docked Sheathapide deserves an honorable mention for being a winner. It adds coordinate to the Ghost, and lets you coordinate for free before you activate - meaning the Ghost could coordinate even before executing a red manuever! If mods are harder to come by, a free coordinate seems pretty strong. 

The docked Sheathapide was a little underwhelming in 1.0 because having the second turret attack from the Attack Shuttle was just too strong. However, in 2.0, the docked Attack Shuttle only lets you perform a free rear attack (with the Attack Shuttle's primary weapon value) after a front arc or turret attack. Not bad, just more situational.

________________

But yeah, I am not sure if down the road they will find a way to release more X-Wing pilots, but I hope they do! 

I also hope ships like the A-Wing get pilots back/add new pilots when they get re-released! Hopefully Tycho will come in the re-release A-Wing!

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33 minutes ago, HanScottFirst said:

But yeah, I am not sure if down the road they will find a way to release more X-Wing pilots, but I hope they do! 

I also hope ships like the A-Wing get pilots back/add new pilots when they get re-released! Hopefully Tycho will come in the re-release A-Wing!

X-Wings and Tie Fighters should have the most options, in fact the flagship craft for every faction should have numerous options so that no matter what state the game is at that the craft is still relevant. Plus, I SOOOOO want the old X-Wing pilots back as well as some of Blue Squadron and Hera.

And I hope so too, I want Tycho back, K2 added, and the Rebels need Keyan. Seriously the game is called X-Wing it can't be considered complete if the protagonist from the game isn't here. 

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4 minutes ago, Forgottenlore said:

Out of curiosity, what would you say that craft is for scum?

That is a real good question. If I had to guess it would be a cheap craft that most could have access to so likely the Z-95, though maybe they could get by having it where instead of an 'iconic' ship they have more Titled ships that are used by Bounty Hunters and the like. But for the Rebels with their T-65 X-Wing, Empire with their Tie Fighter, Resistance with their T-70 X-Wing, and First Order with the Tie/FO they clearly have iconic craft. And if they were to add PT era stuff then I suspect the 'Iconic' craft for the Republic would be the Jedi Starfighter while the CIS had the Droid Starfighter. 

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14 minutes ago, Forgottenlore said:

Out of curiosity, what would you say that craft is for scum?

With Scum, I think their variety is a probably the most iconic part of their identity, and that comes from Titles. Scum is less about having multiple ships of the same type on the board, and more about having a motley crew of scoundrels briefly working towards the same goal.

For that reason, I'd probably argue that having more unique Titles than the other factions is the most important thing, to represent that these aren't just ships. These are  Signature Vessels.

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I’m still really nervous about B-Wings as a whole.  Ten Numb might be usable, but it’s not looking good beyond him.  4 shields and 4 hull hiding behind a single green die (barring Range 3 and obstructions), on what just might be the reddest dial in v2.  Couple that with Y-Wings getting a red reload; X-Wings having S-Foils, astros, and Barrel Roll; other rebel “heavies” having 9 total health, turrets or expanded arcs, and better maneuverability; and it’s enough to make you begin to question what the B could bring to the table beyond cheap, expendable, a system, and a much reduced cannon slot.

And the worst part is even if it will be possible to shove 5 naked Bs into a v2 list, it will just feel “wrong” no matter how balanced that might be because of the points.  Those wouldn’t be B-Wings based on background, those would be a shittier X-Wing with a bad dial.

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I dunno.  I'm kinda not-nervous about the B-Wing.  Statline is about the same--a shield converted to a hull is disappointing, but it happened to everyone.  The dial isn't worse than it used to be, and it did gain 1 T-Rolls.  The linked BR off the focus is also potentially pretty nice.  I guess a lot will come down to price.  My guess is they get cheaper relative to alternative ships like Auzituck (I think it went down to 8 HP, and Reinforce was mildly nerfed) or ARC.  If, for example, B-Wings are 41, and the new Bullseye-only HLC is 9, that'd be a pretty potent ship for hunting large base enemies.  That's probably overly optimistic.

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28 minutes ago, It’s One Of Ours said:

I’m still really nervous about B-Wings as a whole.  Ten Numb might be usable, but it’s not looking good beyond him.  4 shields and 4 hull hiding behind a single green die (barring Range 3 and obstructions), on what just might be the reddest dial in v2.  Couple that with Y-Wings getting a red reload; X-Wings having S-Foils, astros, and Barrel Roll; other rebel “heavies” having 9 total health, turrets or expanded arcs, and better maneuverability; and it’s enough to make you begin to question what the B could bring to the table beyond cheap, expendable, a system, and a much reduced cannon slot.

And the worst part is even if it will be possible to shove 5 naked Bs into a v2 list, it will just feel “wrong” no matter how balanced that might be because of the points.  Those wouldn’t be B-Wings based on background, those would be a shittier X-Wing with a bad dial.

Yeah the B-Wing really feels like it's done really badly out of this. The dial is more or less the same, if not a little worse. I'm expecting a crew slot to be folded right into the build for free, but it's really unimaginative what was done with the B-Wing when you compare it to the treatment that the E-Wing or the TIE Bomber got say. It doesn't even get to reload like the Y-Wing and Bomber do. Why?

I said it from when we first got those early spoilers for Wave 14: Not letting the B-Wing have Servomotors as well as the X-Wing is a mistake.

As is, we've got a 4-4 with 1 evade dice, that has access to Cannons, Systems and probably a Crew slot, and I feel like to leverage any kind of place in a list we have to try and generate some nasty combo around those upgrades, and really, what enthusiasm is there for that when you have boosting X-Wings, a decent Horton Salm and possibly legit E-Wings who aren't Corran Horn?

Outside of just putting Advanced Sensors and Seasoned Navigator onto Tem Numb because that sort of worked for Keyan back in the day, I can't really see anything.

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18 minutes ago, Mward1984 said:

Yeah the B-Wing really feels like it's done really badly out of this. The dial is more or less the same, if not a little worse. I'm expecting a crew slot to be folded right into the build for free, but it's really unimaginative what was done with the B-Wing when you compare it to the treatment that the E-Wing or the TIE Bomber got say. It doesn't even get to reload like the Y-Wing and Bomber do. Why?

I said it from when we first got those early spoilers for Wave 14: Not letting the B-Wing have Servomotors as well as the X-Wing is a mistake.

As is, we've got a 4-4 with 1 evade dice, that has access to Cannons, Systems and probably a Crew slot, and I feel like to leverage any kind of place in a list we have to try and generate some nasty combo around those upgrades, and really, what enthusiasm is there for that when you have boosting X-Wings, a decent Horton Salm and possibly legit E-Wings who aren't Corran Horn?

Outside of just putting Advanced Sensors and Seasoned Navigator onto Tem Numb because that sort of worked for Keyan back in the day, I can't really see anything.

That cannon slot may be the thing that saves it. Unless the YT-2400 retained the slot, it's now the only cannon carrier in the current Rebel fleet. That makes it the only thing capable of packing a Tractor Beam, which are going to be nasty now against bigger ships.

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5 hours ago, Hawkstrike said:

Not to mention Wes Janson, Hobbie Klivian, Tarn Mison, and others.  Poof.

It's because of crap like this, and the B-Wing stuff described above, amongst other things,  that I say "tuck fwo point oh". 

 

Just sayin'. 

Edited by Scopes
clarity

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5 hours ago, PhantomFO said:

While I realize we don't have points or upgrades yet, we do still have enough info on pilot abilities, dials, stats and actions to start note some of the bigger winners and losers compared to 1.0. Here's my top 3 for each:

Winners

Luke Skywalker - As a Force user, he's going to be expensive. But that pilot ability is fantastic. "When  you become the defender, before dice are rolled, recover 1 Force." Luke is going to be able to freely spend force points to modify his offense and use Force Powers, secure in the knowledge that he'll be constantly regenerating them. Plus, the X-Wing chassis gets all those improvements thanks to its S-Foils. 

Bodhi Rook - The whole U-Wing chassis can fall into this category. You don't have to telegraph your Pivot Wing anymore, can rotate 90 degrees, pick up a Coordinate action and have a smaller base that should be easier to maneuver with. Bodhi goes from a miserable PS4 in 1.0 to a respectable IN4 in 2.0.

Lando Calrissian - Whenever he executes a blue maneuver, he can either perform a free action or pass it to someone else. He's doing this at PS5, which is one of the highest in the game. In an era where few ships are going to be able to Focus and TL in the same turn, Lando has the ability to Focus and TL in the same turn. With Nien Numb he gets amazing!!

Losers

Miranda Doni - Pretty much a given considering how much of a monster she was in 1.0. Worse turret options, plus downgraded regen that only works if she has no shields and only on primary attacks. She also loses access to the old Sabine and can't drop bombs at PS8 anymore. Should be much more balanced, but hard to argue she hasn't lost a lot. She was such a min/max ship any tweak was going to ruin her. If that's the hit rebels have to take for the greater good, so be it. I'd like to add Esege's stock went up in 2.0

Kyle Katarn - He dropped from a PS6 to an IN3. His pilot ability is now restricted by arc. And while the new Crow title gives him a 3-die attack from the forward arc, it also only allows him to retain a max of two focus tokens during the end phase. The HWK in general is a winner though.

Tycho Kelchu - He's just gone. That beautiful crazy beast is just gone. :(

I'd like to add Wookiees to the loser list. Reinforce and their HP has been nerfed, and they no longer have commando's for offensive mods, they look pretty horrible in 2.0 to be honest, even with the 180 arc. The days of quad wookiees are gone (its a good thing don't get me wrong), lone wookiees with unique crew is my prediction for 2.0.

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1 hour ago, BVRCH said:

I'd like to add Wookiees to the loser list. Reinforce and their HP has been nerfed, and they no longer have commando's for offensive mods, they look pretty horrible in 2.0 to be honest, even with the 180 arc. The days of quad wookiees are gone (its a good thing don't get me wrong), lone wookiees with unique crew is my prediction for 2.0.

Good. Not only is that ship boring to play against, it's also fugly as ****.

It looks like all the worst 1.0 edition offenders are getting nerfs, while interesting, iconic ships like the Y-wing are getting buffs.

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15 minutes ago, CRCL said:

Good. Not only is that ship boring to play against, it's also fugly as ****.

It looks like all the worst 1.0 edition offenders are getting nerfs, while interesting, iconic ships like the Y-wing are getting buffs.

I actually like their look, I don't know why but i do :P.

I understand people's hate for them completely. Although I can't say I enjoy any ships being nerfed to oblivion (I will admit this is due to poor design from the start). I can't see any reason to use a wookiee in 2.0. U-wings do the carrier role better, and reinforce doesn't help much anymore. There's really no use for wookiees now. I guess its Lowhhrick or bust. He was the main offender in 1.0 and that will continue, but I guess 1 wookiee is better than 4.

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4 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

...The linked BR off the focus is also potentially pretty nice.  I guess a lot will come down to price.  My guess is they get cheaper relative to alternative ships like Auzituck (I think it went down to 8 HP, and Reinforce was mildly nerfed) or ARC.  If, for example, B-Wings are 41, and the new Bullseye-only HLC is 9, that'd be a pretty potent ship for hunting large base enemies.  That's probably overly optimistic.

The problem with the linked Barrel-Roll off focus, is (again) the B-Wing is sorely lacking in blue maneuvers.  This means that if you really want to make use of that, then you go Ten Numb.  Otherwise you hope for a crew slot so you can throw Kanan or Nien Numb on board.  Or Leia, somewhere...  

And even though the Auzituck went down to 8 hits, it still gets reinforce, a 180-degree arc, and a far better dial with the only exception being the B’s 2-K and 1-Tallons.  The thing even gets a red barrel-roll.  Even though it’s a loser in v2, the Wookie gunship still wins out IMO.  And tbh, I’m not sure 9 points for the v2 HLC that’s locked to the bullseye-arc, would be worth it...  But it still comes back to the problem of having to balance the B-Wing’s problems by making it dirt-******* cheap.

Edited by It’s One Of Ours

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1 hour ago, Forgottenlore said:

It should be noted that b-wings were kinda the stars of the rebels for a few waves. It was only progressive power creep that pushed them off. 

I remember that.  BBBB plus a Z or 12pts of upgrades was a common list until TLTs removed them from play.  The Auuzituck and Arc-170 being the better choices just cemented it.

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3 hours ago, It’s One Of Ours said:

The problem with the linked Barrel-Roll off focus, is (again) the B-Wing is sorely lacking in blue maneuvers.  This means that if you really want to make use of that, then you go Ten Numb.  Otherwise you hope for a crew slot so you can throw Kanan or Nien Numb on board.  Or Leia, somewhere...  

I completely agree.

3 hours ago, It’s One Of Ours said:

And even though the Auzituck went down to 8 hits, it still gets reinforce, a 180-degree arc, and a far better dial with the only exception being the B’s 2-K and 1-Tallons.  The thing even gets a red barrel-roll.  Even though it’s a loser in v2, the Wookie gunship still wins out IMO.  And tbh, I’m not sure 9 points for the v2 HLC that’s locked to the bullseye-arc, would be worth it...  But it still comes back to the problem of having to balance the B-Wing’s problems by making it dirt-******* cheap.

I don't agree with this though. I'm as equally nervous about B-wings as you but they still look more enticing than a 2.0 wookiee. The Wookiees do nothing well now. The same can be said for the B-wings, but at least the B-wings have the promise of cannons and systems. There's at least some variation with them. Wookiees have ..crew? Even if they had a gunner slot, none of the gunners work with the ship. Rebels don't have a Palp style crew that's worth trying to protect at all costs, so why would you take a wookiee over a U-wing? Outside of Lowhhrick I can't see any solid builds for them. They will bleed with the new reinforce, and have no offensive dice mods if they reinforce. Even for Lowhhrick, C-3PO is rubbish for him now as it needs the calculate, Magva is decent I guess, no commandos.. They're just eh ships now.

It sounds like I'm complaining that wookiees got nerfed, I'm not. I would much rather see B-wings and U-wings flying around than wookiees, but the dev's just shanked the Auzituck and left it bleeding in the street. Maybe that's deserved, but it seems like a waste of a ship.

Anyway I'm hoping both the Auzituck and B-wing get something spicy in their repack, otherwise they both look pretty lacklustre to me.

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